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Title: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: ifm on August 31, 2006, 05:36:47 AM I like playing limit holdem and dabble at it every once in a while but i can never get to grasps with the betting, or at least i'm never happy.
This hand is a prime example, i *know* i'm miles ahead but i have a bettor and 2 callers in the hand. What i would like to know is should i be raising on the flop or turn? Will this gain anything or lose me custom? [Aug 31 05:26:43] : Hand Start. [Aug 31 05:26:43] : Seat 1 : kingkong21 has $15 [Aug 31 05:26:43] : Seat 2 : sharkbait4U has $26 [Aug 31 05:26:43] : Seat 3 : gofish4it has $28 [Aug 31 05:26:43] : Seat 4 : SpencerK has $30.11 [Aug 31 05:26:43] : Seat 5 : Ellie-Anne has $40.75 [Aug 31 05:26:43] : Seat 6 : AYLA NICOLE has $84.09 [Aug 31 05:26:43] : Ellie-Anne is the dealer. [Aug 31 05:26:43] : AYLA NICOLE posted small blind. [Aug 31 05:26:44] : kingkong21 posted big blind. [Aug 31 05:26:44] : Game [50408] started with 6 players. [Aug 31 05:26:44] : Dealing Hole Cards. [Aug 31 05:26:44] : Seat 5 : Ellie-Anne has 2c 2d [Aug 31 05:26:45] : AYLA NICOLE : lol [Aug 31 05:26:47] : sharkbait4U called $0.50 [Aug 31 05:26:47] : gofish4it folded. [Aug 31 05:26:49] : SpencerK called $0.50 [Aug 31 05:26:49] : AYLA NICOLE : ty [Aug 31 05:26:51] : Ellie-Anne called $0.50 [Aug 31 05:26:53] : AYLA NICOLE folded. [Aug 31 05:26:53] : kingkong21 checked. [Aug 31 05:26:55] : Dealing flop. [Aug 31 05:26:55] : Board cards [2s 9d Jh] [Aug 31 05:26:59] : kingkong21 bet $0.50 [Aug 31 05:27:00] : sharkbait4U called $0.50 [Aug 31 05:27:02] : SpencerK called $0.50 and raised $0.50 [Aug 31 05:27:05] : Ellie-Anne called $1 [Aug 31 05:27:05] : kingkong21 called $0.50 [Aug 31 05:27:06] : sharkbait4U called $0.50 [Aug 31 05:27:06] : Dealing turn. [Aug 31 05:27:06] : Board cards [2s 9d Jh Aspades] [Aug 31 05:27:10] : kingkong21 checked. [Aug 31 05:27:12] : sharkbait4U checked. [Aug 31 05:27:13] : SpencerK bet $1 [Aug 31 05:27:15] : Ellie-Anne called $1 [Aug 31 05:27:15] : kingkong21 called $1 [Aug 31 05:27:17] : sharkbait4U called $1 [Aug 31 05:27:17] : Dealing river. [Aug 31 05:27:17] : Board cards [2s 9d Jh Aspades Ac] [Aug 31 05:27:23] : kingkong21 checked. [Aug 31 05:27:25] : sharkbait4U checked. [Aug 31 05:27:26] : SpencerK bet $1 [Aug 31 05:27:29] : Ellie-Anne called $1 and raised $1 [Aug 31 05:27:29] : kingkong21 called $2 [Aug 31 05:27:44] : sharkbait4U has 10 seconds to respond. [Aug 31 05:27:54] : sharkbait4U did not respond and is considered All-in [Aug 31 05:28:02] : SpencerK folded. [Aug 31 05:28:02] : Showdown! [Aug 31 05:28:02] : Seat 5 : Ellie-Anne has 2c 2d [Aug 31 05:28:04] : Seat 5 : Ellie-Anne has 2c 2d [Aug 31 05:28:04] : Ellie-Anne has Full House : 2s full of Aces [Aug 31 05:28:07] : Seat 1 : kingkong21 has Kh Js [Aug 31 05:28:07] : kingkong21 has Two Pair: Aces and Jacks [Aug 31 05:28:07] : Ellie-Anne wins $4.76 with Full House : 2s full of Aces [Aug 31 05:28:07] : Seat 5 : Ellie-Anne has 2c 2d [Aug 31 05:28:07] : Ellie-Anne has Full House : 2s full of Aces [Aug 31 05:28:07] : Seat 1 : kingkong21 has Kh Js [Aug 31 05:28:07] : kingkong21 has Two Pair: Aces and Jacks [Aug 31 05:28:07] : Seat 2 : sharkbait4U has Ts Qh [Aug 31 05:28:07] : sharkbait4U has Pair: Aces [Aug 31 05:28:07] : Ellie-Anne wins $9.74 with Full House : 2s full of Aces [Aug 31 05:28:17] : Hand is over. Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: Royal Flush on August 31, 2006, 05:40:18 AM I think i pop the turn.
The players behind you are probably drawing so i raise now to get the money in as they are not calling the river. You might lose them if they hold a J but they will be cautious of that anyway. Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: snoopy1239 on August 31, 2006, 05:40:36 AM My knowledge of Limit poker is severely limited, but from what I understand, you should bet a set on every street.
Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: Royal Flush on August 31, 2006, 05:45:43 AM My knowledge of Limit poker is severely limited, but from what I understand, you should bet a set on every street. If its checked to you for sure. QT isn't folding so i want to maximise the money going into the pot, the turn is the time to do this. Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: ifm on August 31, 2006, 05:46:39 AM My knowledge of Limit poker is severely limited, but from what I understand, you should bet a set on every street. Someone WAS betting every street snopps, i was calling but i don't know if it's right. I don't mind being outdrawn, it happens regardless of what i do sometimes and i reckon the times i don't make up for the times i do, could be wrong though :D Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: Royal Flush on August 31, 2006, 05:50:19 AM Just try to get the most money into the pot as possible.
It's not NL don't raise the flop when you think people are drawing, they are price to draw anyway. Wait till the turn to make it expensive. Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: snoopy1239 on August 31, 2006, 05:52:46 AM My knowledge of Limit poker is severely limited, but from what I understand, you should bet a set on every street. Someone WAS betting every street snopps, i was calling but i don't know if it's right. I don't mind being outdrawn, it happens regardless of what i do sometimes and i reckon the times i don't make up for the times i do, could be wrong though :D I'm not sure I understand - If you know you are ahead, why wouldn't you jam the pot with a raise? Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: ifm on August 31, 2006, 05:56:41 AM I'm not sure I understand - If you know you are ahead, why wouldn't you jam the pot with a raise? Because i didn't want to lose them, but that is what i'm asking, is it right or wrong? I'm never reraising the flop simply because a raise, reraise, rereraise is a big alarm bell for the first 2 in the hand and they almost always fold :( I think i agree with flushy that the turn is the right time. Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: Royal Flush on August 31, 2006, 06:06:33 AM My knowledge of Limit poker is severely limited, but from what I understand, you should bet a set on every street. Someone WAS betting every street snopps, i was calling but i don't know if it's right. I don't mind being outdrawn, it happens regardless of what i do sometimes and i reckon the times i don't make up for the times i do, could be wrong though :D I'm not sure I understand - If you know you are ahead, why wouldn't you jam the pot with a raise? To maximise your profit with your set. Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: snoopy1239 on August 31, 2006, 06:17:50 AM From the little I've read about Limit poker, I believe the general consensus is that you shouldn't worry about losing them - just jam jam jam
Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: Royal Flush on August 31, 2006, 06:23:15 AM The hands that are going to outdraw a set are not passing anyway.
Wait for the big bet on the turn. Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: boldie on August 31, 2006, 09:46:55 AM My knowledge of Limit poker is severely limited, but from what I understand, you should bet a set on every street. Someone WAS betting every street snopps, i was calling but i don't know if it's right. I don't mind being outdrawn, it happens regardless of what i do sometimes and i reckon the times i don't make up for the times i do, could be wrong though :D I jam every single time. Most people when playing limit don't know when to let go of the hand. they think they are always priced in...and I will make those guy pay. also I don't like to give free hands away. On this flop what would people be drawing to? A straight? if it hits you're screwed and you've let them hit it for free (!!) but those guys will stay in the pot anyways if you jam it on the flop (if they are open ended). Make them pay for it... you are ahead...in Limit that means you stick your chips in raise reraise every single time. Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: Raindogs on August 31, 2006, 01:56:42 PM I like the turn call.
You have 2 opponents left to act, one of whom may have an Ace and opt to raise. This will put you in a great position to re-raise and build a big pot. If you raise the turn when the ace falls and your remaining 2 opponents don't have an ace they will probably fold unless they have the QT for the open ended straight draw. The worst case is none of your opponents call and you take the pot down there and then. If the original bettor calls and checks the river he may fold to a river bet meaning your raise only wins you 1 extra BB. The call on the other hand netted you 5 BB (2 callers, 1 river bet, and 1 raised call(2)). If you were last or second last to act then I would raise but the 2 players left to act make calling the better option IMO. Most of the profit in limit games is made in getting extra bets in these type of situations. If there was a more obvious draw on the board then raising would be the best option. At low limit games (anything up to 2/4) if the table is loose and full of calling stations you can raise till you break the mouse. They will keep calling you down to the river with gutshots etc .. and jamming is by far the most profitable play. At higher limits players generally recognise that a turn raise usually signals a strong hand and in the hand you posted will definitely lay the hand down if they don't have a ace (or can beat A's). Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: dan on August 31, 2006, 03:11:55 PM bet every street/raise every street. in .50/1 limit you will not lose them they will come with you with 2nd pair :D
Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: Royal Flush on August 31, 2006, 08:52:58 PM My knowledge of Limit poker is severely limited, but from what I understand, you should bet a set on every street. Someone WAS betting every street snopps, i was calling but i don't know if it's right. I don't mind being outdrawn, it happens regardless of what i do sometimes and i reckon the times i don't make up for the times i do, could be wrong though :D I jam every single time. Most people when playing limit don't know when to let go of the hand. they think they are always priced in...and I will make those guy pay. also I don't like to give free hands away. On this flop what would people be drawing to? A straight? if it hits you're screwed and you've let them hit it for free (!!) but those guys will stay in the pot anyways if you jam it on the flop (if they are open ended). Make them pay for it... you are ahead...in Limit that means you stick your chips in raise reraise every single time. Exactly they will keep calling, so jam the turn for a double bet! Title: Re: When to raise in Limit Holdem? Post by: Sheriff Fatman on August 31, 2006, 11:25:36 PM I'm with Flushy on this one, a raise on the flop might drive away the first 2. Flat calling leaves the initiative in the hands of the initial bettor so you can pop it on the turn. If some drop out at this stage then there's a reasonable chance they would've folded the turn to any bet.
If the flop is risky looking in terms of draws then you'd probably stick in a raise on the flop to discourage them if possible. You might also raise if it was heads up. On this board with this action there's no real risk of draws until the turn so keep the limpers in as long as possible. Sheriff |