blonde poker forum

 Qh Qc 6c 6d

any good?

Nope well i wouldnt play it, thats an auto fold for myself all u can do is hope to hit trips on flop and if ur lucky hit a full house then again a club flush is possible but its only Q high so i would willing to fold this to big beting!

Im playing that hand in a cash game all day

Limp to hit.

The QQ bit is good... but the 66 isn't.  You NEVER want to flop a set of sixes, because you will never be entirely sure if you are winning -- there will always be a possible straight or a possible higher set.

????? so this doesnt ring true for QQ then?? lol

When the flop comes Q74 you can be pretty sure you are ahead :D

James.

It was a play on words - the statement by MrsLime is true for QQ as well as 66!!

(AS WELL YOU KNOW!)

 ;ifm;

QJ237?

 Qh Qc 6c 6d

It all depends how many players are seated at the table.

It's fine, and you certainly want to see a flop with it. Very easy to get away from too.

The only way you can flop the nuts with 66 is quads. I think thats the point Mrs Lime was making.

hmmm, mixed reports.

It was a sng on Stars.   I raised preflop to get rid of (more) lousy hands but a 55 holder called and hit his trips on the flop.  Shame really cos the flop looked innocent :D

So queens ok, 6's not so great, but all in all, not the best hand because I can only hit trips with it either way.

Cheers guys :)

The point is that if you have Q-Q and you hit Q-7-2, you can be 100% sure that you are ahead. You have the nuts at that point in time.

You can never flop the nuts with 6-6 unless you make Quads.

A-2-6 could be losing to A-A, 2-3-6 could be losing to 4-5, 4-5-6 could be losing to 2-3 etc

Q-Q-6-6 is a crappy hand.

The 6-6 is crap for the reasons Mr Lime expressed, and the Q-Q is only worthwhile if you hit your third Queen, and even them you're going to have to survive a coin-flip (or worse) if you are to make any decent money from it.

The flush draw is almost a waste of time as it is only the 3rd nut. A jack flush won't call you unless they're loosey goosey.

that's the thing about a QQ 66 hand. It's real strength is in hitting a Q, a set of 6s is always going to look vulnerable.

In assessing the strength of your hand in omaha it sometimes help to look at the six combinations of 2 cards in isolation to see how well they function together.

Take a hand like Ah Ks Qh 2s 
1. Ah Ks
2. Ks Qh
3. Ah Qh
4. Ah 2s
5. Ks 2s 
6. Qh 2s.

In this hand 5 out of the 6 2 card combinations have some sort of coordination. Only Qh 2s doesn't co-ordinate in any respect. Ah 2s is obviously pretty weak as well but at least can make a straight albeit a pretty dire one.  Still the fact that 5/6 of the two card combinations have some co-ordinated strength means it is a decent hand that can hit a lot of flops.

Now consider the QQ 66 hand. You don't say if there's any suitage going on but let's say it is:

Qs Qd 6d 6h.

So your combinations are
1. Qs Qd,
2. 6d 6h,
3. Qd 6d
4. Qs 6d,
5. Qd 6s,
6. Qs 6d

Now only 3 out of the 6 2 card combos have coordination and as discussed you can't flop the nuts  with your 6s(unles u hit quads), and the Q high flush draw is never going to feel superstrong when you hit it unless there's an Ad and Kd out there on the flop too. So 2 out of your coordinated hands aren't great, 3 of the other hands are uncoordinated rubbishy hands and only the QQ has some real strength. You'll miss the majority of flops with this hand.

So really with this hand, nearly all it's strength comes from hitting a Q. As this is pretty unlikely you most often want to get in very cheap to see a flop and use the implied odds of hitting set over set, house over trips etc to make the hand profitable.

Nice post Rod.

Last time - I know what MrsLime was getting at!! Was just some "warped" sense of humour.

Well, I wouldn't advise deliberately aiming for the Q-high flush draw, but the 'liveness' of a flush draw depends somewhat on the situation...

Just yesterday I played a similiarish hand to the one being discussed... except it was Omaha Hi-Lo, and I had Qs Qd 2s 3c.  I was UTG and limped, as did four others, and the blinds called, so we were six-handed.

The flop came 9s Qc Kc.  The big blind, who was a moron, bet the pot, and I called, as did one other person.

The turn was Ts.  The big blind bet the pot, and again I called; then the third guy raised the pot and was all-in; the big blind called the full amount all-in.

I didn't give anyone KK, and on this occasion I was happy to assume that my spade flush draw was live.  The pot was offering me 3-to-1, so I called.  If I hadn't had the flush draw, I would have folded (reluctantly).

As it turns out, the big blind had Aspades 9h 6c 9d [for the underset and no redraw] and the other guy had Jd Ac 2c 8c [made straight and club flush draw], so I was in good shape.

On the other hand, if, in a parallel universe, I had flopped just a queen-high spade draw, I would have folded to a bet.

So, what I'm trying to say is that I think a flush draw that you pick up on the turn is a slightly different beast to the one that you flop.  Maybe I played it badly... happy to discuss.