blonde poker forum

Hi,

 Cash game NLHE, 5 of us see flop we all have around £70-£100 in our stacks
Blinds 0.25 - 0.50 i am BB holding K-8 o/s pot £2.50 flop 8s-8d-9s SB bets £1
I raise £3.50 next two players pass 3rd player calls and SB folds, TURN 9c so i
Check he checks river 5c, i bet £7.00 he raises it up £35 i fold, as i have not
long joined this table i have know real read on the guy as yet.

            Neves.

Pass and dont bet the river!

check the river and see how much he value bets and take a view

am i missing something here..(It's beena  long day) but when you hold K8 and 2 8's come on the flop you have trips...then 2 9's come and you have a full house (which admittedly be beaten by a 9). he raises the river (which could have completed his open ender). I would always call this if I'm new at the table. unless he has the 9 he won't beat you and like I said he could have had the open ender on the flop which he made and is now happy because he made it on the river. for an extra 28$ I call.

we've discussed this sort of thing a lot

My view is if you have got an obvious underfull (I'd be surprised if he didn't have the 9) why bet the river if you are hating a re-raise?

yeah I'd agree with this. I don't stick in a raise on the river unless i intend to call a reraise 4x my raise (assuming I'm not at it of course)

Im not sure about that. If you check and he fires a decent bet on the river you have a decision to make. By betting smallish on the end you get the info you need cheaper coz if he raises you I am pretty confident he has a 9. So Neves can bet fold here at a cost of $7 but may have to call a bet bigger than that if he checks and then wants to call and the nice part is by betting $7 you might get a call from a worse hand.

So the $7 bet can save you from facing a $20 bet on the end that could be from a 9 or even a bluff after you check which he could see as weakness or save you chips by getting the info that you are behind.

Neves was check-raised.

 TURN  so i
Check he checks river , i bet £7.00 he raises it up £35 i fold,

I have understood the line to be they both check the turn and Neves bets on the river and is raised by a guy that has acted after him in previous rounds.

sorry, the cards didnt appear in the cut and paste.

Sry you're right. I thought he was against the Sb.

I prefer checking and calling in spots like this.... only because the guy is an unknown. Against people that you have a line on, betting is going to be preferable because your subsequent decision will be much easier, ie insta-call vs bluffhardy characters or insta-folds vs the nits.

Out of interest what % of the pot would you call for in this spot?

up to around 100--110% of the pot I guess. If they stick in a massive overbet if you check I tend to chuck it away pretty comfortably, as they dont usually do that without the 9 (as a pot size bet works as well if they are bluffing)

Well if they pot you on the 8 then surely a bluff would be in the region of 2x pot.

why surely?

Because a small bet is always looked up.

maybe, but I'm not sure if 100% of the pot is considered a small bet... and I doubt people are betting to try and get someone to fold an 8 anyways. They might make a big overbet (2/3*the pot) to get good value from someone with an 8 however

I guess what I am trying to say, is that if you check and they overbet the pot drastically, (all of this is in general, not each and every time...)  they aren't doing it hoping you fold an eight, they are doing it hoping you have the eight (because they dont think someone will fold the eight) whereas if they just bet the pot, they are doing it with some mess like a busted str8 draw/flush draw/counterfeited pair, hoping to knock you off a similar hand/A high/pair that is scared of a double paired board. Its not like our hero's hand is face up and he is almost certain to have the eight.