blonde poker forum

......if I am a European player and I am in the US on hols or something will I be able to play and re load my account. If so then any US player can register a U/K address on line and use that address. With companies such as netteler it should be no problem. You could use a friends address in Europe stating you are there on business for a year for example..or am I being exceptionally thick?....it wont be the first time :)

I think fraud is still considered a felony by Uncle Sam.

PS Take a Jar of Vaseline i dont think its standard issue in the State Pen.

LMAO at the above message.

Basically this law says that if it's illegal to gamble in the State you're in, then it's illegal to gamble on the internet in that State.

So you would be covered by it if you were just on holiday.

It's a prevention law. They are just going to make it hard to deposit. If you don't use a US bank you will be fine anywhere.

Neteller shares took a good spanking as well .

Its not illegal to play poker online in the states. never has been although the DOJ will argue otherwise, the wire act does not apply and the courts have enforced that view on numerous occasions. There are a handful of states that do have laws preventing their citizens from gambling. And most of the laws apply to sports betting.

Which is one of the reasons they have made this silly new law preventing US financial institutions from depositing into gambling sites.

A US citizen would be at perfect liberty to legally register with a bank offshore and use that bank account to fund their poker account without penalty. It is the responsibility of the financial institution to comply with the law and it has no legal bearing on individual citizens.

As flushy says, its merely a prevention law against the US banks.

After reading it, it does seem to  cover foreign Financial Institutions (including companies like Neteller) as well - although I don't know where the US Government would stand on being able to enforce it.

I dont feel so stupid ...I am not trying to advocate breaking the law but my understanding seems to be that what they are trying to do is not enforcable. I cannot believe that he transaction tracking at barclays will be able to identify all the netteller proccesing (which by the way is done at Barclays).
So if a US player opens a foriegn account (as per what flushy said) then as it is legal to gamble on line in the U/K then any payment request from that account will be proccessed.

I think :dontask: sort of ;grr; maybe.... it sounds to easy but the comments you guys made seems to support this

Its a bullshit law from a bullshit government that actively seeks to violate the basic human rights and civil liberties of its taxpaying citizens.

I wonder when they are going to give us (I mean them, but since this law applies to foriegn companies doing business in the US then it applies to the world not just the USA) the four legs good two legs better speach?

Not so. Many of these companies will now not let you log in when you are on US soil. I could not access Betfair Poker from Vegas and I believe Will Hill have now also prevented people logging in from the US. It is almost certain that Party and 888 will also prevent players from the US being able to log in as well and if Stars, Empire, Paradise, Full Tilt and UB do the same, then that is pretty much it for US online players. There will be ways around it, but only a small minority of players will go down this route. The days of ever increasing prize pools online and weekly million dollar tournaments are numbered.

so that means plenty of UK players leaving the american sites because of falling numbers etc ... good news for sites that dont allow American registrations then :)   ... they will all join blonde ;)

what are the motives for this move by the US government?
are they trying to force these poker companies to pay a higher tax or rates or something?

Full tilt would shut down without US players and many other sites as well. The US knows it cannot stop the websites which is why it has tried to stop the transactions. If Pokerstars decides to accept US players that can make deposits then it will clean up, however if one site does it I think others will follow I cannot see that sites will stop players..only the banks on US soil.

Party have indicated that they will stop US players being able to access their real money site with immediate effect once GB signs the bill.

Was that not just the hotel ISP blocking you from playing? To get you downstairs paying them?



Golden Palace and Doyles Room leaving the network would hurt it quite badly.

I think this depends on how the individual sites enfore their US restrictions.

There seems 2 ways to go about it.
1) Just block all US based IPs and then anyone in the USA (whether American or no American) wil be fooked.
2) Only block those accounts with US addresses then only those with these US regs will be locked.

Obviously option 2 is far favorable but may be a bit dodgy when faced by the law.

I clearly hope for option2 in that most of my accounts have UK regs.
But as already been pointed out some sites have blocked US IPs completely (such as Betfair) so this may be  he horro road ahead. ARRRRGH! Might be back to Nuclear Engineering for me. Unless of course flushy wans to marry me so I can get Uk citizenship  :kiss:

So if the American market collapses, where are the marketing arms of the Online Rooms gonna spend all their money?.....

funny you should say that tony.........keep your eyes open over the next few weeks mate

No, it was a message from Betfair saying that I was trying to access from a banned territory. Other sites I could still access.

Why are you finding this so hard to believe Flushy? If the sites comply with the US, that is it for all but the most determined of US players.

there wont be so much money in the hands of the marketing men because the turn over of the sites will be crippled

These companies dont pay any tax, they are all off shore :) Hence the US government and its fundraisers (B&M casino lobbys and the like) throwings its dummies out of the pram cos they dont get a cent from all the US $$$ that is going offshore.

Finding what hard to believe, i was just asking a question! The other cryptoskins like inter poker, do they still allow americans?

MadYank, only if i am the groom.

Oh Dear! Don't tell me Ariston just got a $4M sponsrship deal?

The poker companies currently pay US taxes at the rate of 0%.

Uncle Sam isn't happy about this - he wants his slice of the pie. Unfortunately, because all the poker companies are offshore, there's nothing he can do to get any money from them.

The only way he can make money from online poker would be from companies which are based in the US. But, even if internet poker were legalised, a domestic company wouldn't be able to make inroads into the poker market because Party, Pokerstars et al have it all locked up, and they're obviously not going to move back to the US because it would mean paying taxes.

Of course, one solution would be to completely ban all Americans from playing poker, destroy the major poker rooms' user base, and then, at some point in the future, allow US citizens to play internet poker only at poker rooms which are properly regulated and licenced by the US Government. Which would, of course be situated in the US. And pay taxes there.

Aren't Harrahs getting awfully big?

Most of these companies are only offshore out of neccessity. If they had been allowed to set up their businesses in the US in the first place, most would have done so. The US did not allow them to locate within America. The US government didn't want their tax in the first place and have now clearly demonstrated that they still don't want it.

please tell me he got a $4M deal it would be the best news a poker player could hear all that money in the hands of a fish

Sweet! Shall we book a date? Perhaps dear ole Uncle Elton will let us use his castle.

P.S. DO  you really want to see madyank in a dress?

Why all but the most determined? Google for "anonymous proxy" and you will find a good number of circumvention tools that take all of a couple of mins to download install and set up.

The trick is then to use ProxyCap to transfer all your internet traffic through the proxy and voila, an international IP address in the country of your choosing...

You were finding it hard to believe that a site like Betfair would block US IPs.

AndrewTs explanation is much more plausible... I'm not saying yours isn't plausible, of course it is. But his is better.

Exactly, only the determined will get around to/work out how to do this. This is not simple 2 clicks and your in sort of stuff, which is all that most people are able to do.

No i find it easy to believe!

200 million Americans  440 million Europeans on paper the math looks good. However the lack of understanding of poker in Europe and with a low penertration of broadband customers in comparison will result in  many sites going after a smaller market there will be initially a very tough time for some networks and sites. We chose tribeca as I am sure Blonde did because it has a very high European player base, but no matter what site or network you are on this is going to hurt unless you find a fix. Marketing will outside of the US will not fix the problem but acelerate the end of poorly ran sites...so Blonde I think will benafit (as I hope we do).

It will in the long term accelerate the growth in the far east and central Europe.

Looks like there is some merit in making a dummies guide on how to do this, then dumping it on the internet for all to see. My site might see much more traffic from the mugs searching google

It's just my tin foil hat talking.

AlrightJack is kind of right though - it's not that the US government didn't want the tax, but that they didn't notice internet poker till it was too late, by which time all the companies were offshore. If they could turn the clock back to 1998 they'd have legalised online gaming.

does the uk government or any government tax poker sites? i assume the answer is no...
...so what is stopping a world ban.

In the long run I think online poker will be allowed back in, which is why sites like Party are complying with the authorities. They do not want to be persona non gratis once it is regulated and they are allowed to operate again. They want the Amercian market and would have preferred to have been onshore from the offset, but legally they were not allowed to do so.

It is completely wrong to use a conspiracy theory type of argument to try and make sense of what is happenning. If all Uncle Sam wanted was his slice of the pie, why did he not accept it when it was offered to him on a plate?

It's not difficult! Europe & Asia. Big time.

They could easily have cut a deal to see such sites come onshore. This would have been a lot less hassle than banning it.   There are two main groups who have contributed to getting the ban through.

1. The moral majority. That vast bible bashing belt that dominates public life in a large number of US states.
2. Bricks and Mortar gaming operations. Yes, companies like Harrah's, who have vastly benefitted from online poker players visiting their resorts have stupidly not seen the benefit that online gaming/poker can have to their offline businesses. They were unjustifably worried that online gaming would adversely affect people's propensity to venture offline to do their gaming. It is in fact the complete opposite as online gaming has vastly increased their core market. Even the most lazy of couch potato gamblers likes the idea of going to Vegas every now and then.

See my website if your interested in what I have termed a "dummies guide" but most likely isn't :D

I think you will find gambling is illegal in the majority of Asia.

I  think you will find a lot of online gambling sites wont be that keen to take on all these new US players, theres a lot of consequenses if they do.
extract from article by Nolan Dalla:

I expect this to have a ripple affect across the entire industry. Most of the larger poker sites, and likely offshore sportsbooks as well, will be forced to block wagers from US residents. Otherwise, all operators/employees are subject to arrest and prosecution if they enter US territory. Those here and elsewhere who have stated this new law “only applies to financial transactions” have a narrow and tragically misguided view of the legislation. It essentially makes any employee or agent of the offshore site a criminal under US law — UNLESS they block transactions from US residents. In short, an executive from an offshore sportsbook could enter the US and not fear arrest, provided that company is not doing business inside the United States.

 

If the online company runs a horse racing book in the US, it would be difficult for the US to procecute, as horse racing bets are legal and where exempt from this law, which makes it a hypocritical mockery not to mention a violation of human rights.