blonde poker forum

This hand is from Party Pokers $6 afternoon rebuy. Found it quite an interesting hand.

The opponent in the hand in question had come to the table as 2nd chip leader he had played quite tight then lost alot of chips. Then he opened up when it got shorthanded. He has been mixing, limping and raising in late position/blinds

Payouts are
1st $1206
2nd $728
3rd $402
4th $324
5th $279
 

#Game No : 5310997149
***** Hand History for Game 5310997149 *****
NL Texas Hold'em  Trny:29606516 Level:20 Blinds-Antes(20000/40000-1000) - Wednesday, October 04, 11:55:39 ET 2006
Table Rebuy(854317) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 4: LSgambler ( $659039 )
Seat 5: Bertpup ( $502486 )
Seat 7: Dandy29 ( $896661 )
Seat 8: WPTpokerprince ( $690678 )
Seat 10: POPOPUMPKIN ( $83136 )
Trny:29606516 Level:20
Blinds-Antes(20000/40000-1000)
Bertpup posts ante [1000].
LSgambler posts ante [1000].
Dandy29 posts ante [1000].
WPTpokerprince posts ante [1000].
POPOPUMPKIN posts ante [1000].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bertpup [ 9d, 9c ]
Dandy29 folds.
WPTpokerprince folds.
POPOPUMPKIN folds.
LSgambler calls [20000].
Bertpup raises [65200].
Lsgambler is all-In  [618039]
Bertpup ???

What would you do and why please

Usually i would say that if he wanted to bluff he could have just led at the pot however, there is a fair chance that he knows you can't really call because there is one bloke on 2BB. The problem is he is right.

I would call, the blinds are very big and after posting your blind and your raise you only have around 6 rounds of the table left.  5-handed this does not leave you much room for maneouver, and you will most likely not get a better chance to double through.    I would imagine the small blind has a large range here, although you will know his range better than me as you've been playing at his table. 

Calling now will give you a great chance of winning, and as the payout is so top heavy you need to take this chance.

 fold for me , wait for a better spot , even if he has Q 10  u r risking all ur chips on a 50/50 at best imo

 he may be mixing it up and being agressive but hes obviously no muppet to make the last 5

 u have a decent stack and even with the 60k in you still have aroound 500k back so you dont have to gamble with this

 hand , maybe if u had about 300k yes but not yet , plus if the guy with 80k goes out doon youll step up the cash ladder

I would probably make the call here although i would of preferred to move all-in preflop first as there is already 85k in the pot and I'd be happy to take it down without taking too many chances / be made to make a difficult decision post-flop.

With  9d 9c you are likely to be ahead of the Sb's range of hands (although it would be different if he had not opened up his game) and  may not get a better chance to double up - plus if you call and win you'll be the chipleader and will be able to apply some pressure on the medium stacks until the shortie busts.

I am not too concerned about scraping a noch up the prize ladder here (look at the $45 diff between 4th n 5th) as most of the money is goes to the top 2.

 ;hattip; WP for getting so deep just remember there is only so far you're gonna go without winning a race.

easy, easy fold

I'd take on this probable race 3 handed to take a shot at winning it

5 handed with the 5th player in the dead zone, I'd wait


He knows this, you know this, its simple game theory to push for him and to pass for you

Tightend, there's no way you can say this is an easy, easy fold??  Why be concerned with a short-stack when the next prize jump is so small.   I'm not sure how the hand history's work here, but it looks like from his 502,000 stack he has posted the blind then raised 60,000 more, leaving himself only 400K.   As I said before this is only 6 rounds of the table, only about 10 hands before he has to start pushing with marginal hands.  9 9 is a premium at this stage in my opinion, especially given the small blinds range, and if you think he is applying simple game theory to get you to pass its an even easier call!

I agree with this. I would like to ask what range of hands you call here with if you cannot call with 99 ?

dn

thanks for the replies so far guys will post the results in a bit

I agree with this. Preflop you are either allin or checking to see a flop.


I disgaree with this. Imo he is either bluffing (because you have induced it) or you are small fav/large underdog. Why didn't raise preflop the first time around. Surely you would expect Ax to raise straight away.

I would expect the same sort of play with smaller pocket pairs, as well as hands like A10-AK.  Could also be a straightforward resteal.  ie Any two cards.  As I said previously only Bertup would have an idea of the true range of hands as he has played at the table. 

A straight all in is a bit drastic surely at this stage? 

An allin is only a raise of 11bb.

I agree with you about the smaller pairs but I don't think it is good play to call all your chips off in this spot. Can we ask dale or totalise to have a look at this. They're usually pretty good at giving a conclusive answer.

Right there is a bit of a twist for you in terms of the hand. I switched the names around because i thought and i believe i have got more information about how i played the hand and what it looked like etc.

#Game No : 5310997149
***** Hand History for Game 5310997149 *****
NL Texas Hold'em  Trny:29606516 Level:20 Blinds-Antes(20000/40000-1000) - Wednesday, October 04, 11:55:39 ET 2006
Table Rebuy(854317) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 4: Bertpup ( $659039 )
Seat 5: LSgambler ( $502486 )
Seat 7: Dandy29 ( $896661 )
Seat 8: WPTpokerprince ( $690678 )
Seat 10: POPOPUMPKIN ( $83136 )
Trny:29606516 Level:20
Blinds-Antes(20000/40000-1000)
Bertpup posts ante [1000].
LSgambler posts ante [1000].
Dandy29 posts ante [1000].
WPTpokerprince posts ante [1000].
POPOPUMPKIN posts ante [1000].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bertpup [  3c Ad ]
Dandy29 folds.
WPTpokerprince folds.
POPOPUMPKIN folds.
Bertpup calls [20000].
LSgambler raises [65200].
Bertpup is all-In  [618039]
LSgambler is all-In  [396286]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 2s, 3d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
LSgambler shows [ 9d, 9c ] a pair of nines.
Bertpup shows [ 3c, Ad ] a pair of threes.
Bertpup wins 156553 chips from  side pot #1  with a pair of threes.
LSgambler wins 1007972 chips from  the main pot  with a pair of nines.
Game #5311000000 starts.

He gave me an agonising wait aswell before making the call and i thought i had got him to fold.

In regards to the end result im not really that bothered about although a million chips would have been nice. I think my biggest problem was that i play alot of turbo Sit and gos and when 5 people are left thats the time i accumulate most chips. Im still torn whether i played it correctly. If he had folded i would given a little jigg and if i had hit my ace i would have screamed the house down.

My logic into not raising initial is if i raised and then reraised all in (he had pushed all in a couple of times in the previous 10-15 hands or so). So i played it dependind on action to make him play for all of his chips rather than me have to call for practically all of mine.

In the end i finished 4th which i would have taken at the start.

thanks for all the input aswell interesting hearing others opinions

I also think it would have worked alot better had the jump been $4500 rather than $45

he also went on to win

Thanks for the vote of confidence.   :D   Bert - Your play is fine if you thought there was a good chance the guy was on a steal, but I wouldn't normally make this play with a rag ace, as hands that call you will have you dominated.

I agree with Wellchief entirely

Sorry Wellchief, i didn't mean it in a bad way.


Edit, I meant that usually in these situations dale/totalise can offer a pretty good mathematical solution that can't be argued with, that's all (not to say that others can't, but these are just two people who spring to mind).

nice attempt at a re-steal bertpup but i'd rather make this play with 2 live cards than a raggy ace since your table image didn't sound too good and opps are more likely to start calling you with hands like A-Q A-J and mid PP's

Bertpup, what was your plan if your oppo had checked behind you?

I wouldnt have minded a check behind. If i didnt hit any of the flop and it was a pretty uncoordinated board,  i would either bet 55000 or check call a bet up the the same size and then fire a 75-90k bet regardless of what the turn brought.

I don't get people who said to fold the 9's

the 99 was a good call. in a position where there isn't a lot of difference between the prizemoney yet, you have to assume your pocket 9's are good against a player like that. It's a call every single time in a top heavy tourney.

You can ofcourse also justify the push with the ace rag (because of the position of player nr 5 and his dead chips you could have made it with any two cards really..as the people who told you to fold the hand when they thought you had pocket 9's show) but if I have pocket 9's here I call every single time.

Right, i used an icm to do this.

Pos Payout Additional %

1st   1206   927   60%
2nd  728    449    29%
3rd   402    123    8%
4th   324    45     3%
5th   279    0       0%

From the original question the chips counts are

Person Chips Equity
LS      659039   0.2356
Bert   502486   0.1917
Dan    896661   0.2926
WPT  690678   0.2439
POP   83136     0.0362

If the 9-9 folds

Person Chips Equity
LS      759239   0.2631
Bert   396286   0.1602
Dan    895661   0.2945
WPT   689678  0.2456
POP    82136    0.0366

If the 9-9 loses

Person Chips Equity
LS      1158525   0.3620
Bert    0             0.0
Dan    895661     0.3121
WPT   689678    0.2640
POP    82136      0.0619

If the 9-9 wins

Person Chips Equity
LS      156553    0.0779
Bert   1007972   0.3251
Dan    895661    0.3020
WPT   689678   0.2533
POP    82136     0.0417

Soooooooooooooooooo  ;danafish; (that's the closest emoticon to a drumroll we have)

If P is the probability of winning the hand,

0.3251* P + (1 - P) * 0.0 > 0.1602

Gives P as 49.2% which means that the 9-9 should call if it has more than a 49.2% chance of winning the hand. Pokerstove gives this hand range as 77+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KJo+ and equates to the top 12.5% of hands. Now, because he is obviously doing it with a larger range than that the 9-9 should call. (it was luck boldie  :))

 ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated;

ps, can someone check these pls cos i've probably made a mistake somewhere.




Ok, so now a new question. How do you play the A-3 in that position and with those stack sizes.

like i said both plays can be justified. I quite like the push with the A3...but i would call with the 9's.

I would have folded the A3 but that's cus I'm a tight git.

You would have folded preflop? Do you mean you wouldn't have made it up in the first place or you would fold to the raise?