blonde poker forum

At the end of the month, Grosvenor Casinos will be having a national card room meeting. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Now is your chance to speak up and tell us what rules you would like changing or how certain rules should be changed.

To start you all off, here are a few rules I know people dont like. But how would you change em. I'm not promising to change them, but will give it my best shot, and I think Dani will be onside with it too.

1. Cards exposed on the flop by dealer error before action is complete.

We currently use 3rd from bottom and replace it. I like the Broadway rules that get them shuffled back in2 the pack.

2. Cards shown by players.

Currently penalised by not being able to bet again. Other places automatically disqualify them. If d'q do they get chips back etc.etc.

3. Moody rule??? Speech play???? Should they go or not go????

4. Betting out of turn. Should it stand??? Had a few complaints about that one over last few weeks. Oh well.

5. Passing out of turn consistently. This is a new one and is becoming more commonplace due to the No Smoking rule. People r looking at their cards then leaving the table. This is giving valuable information to people still to act.

How bout they have to automatically call but their cards are removed. Will that solve the problem.

I look forward to reading your responses. Lets try to get these and other rules sorted out.

Yogi

Showdown rules???

Should they be shown or not.????

Yogi

Penalitiex should be imposed for transgression of rules, maybe 10 or 15 minutes in sin-bin.

Penalties for "ungentlemanly conduct" would be nice too, but I guess that's asking a bit much these days.

Can I come too? pleeeeeeeze

I would like a common rule on whether a dealer can call "time" on a player. See recent incidents at Luton when a Walsall dealer applied the rule that he could. All Luton dealers leave it for another player to ask only

I would infinitely prefer the dealer to stay out of it, and leave it to the player to request the clock if required

Yogi, an excellent and positive move forward! - i suggest blondeites think about this as it really affects US as we are the ones that play these events week in week out.

My Opinions are in bold and large under each one of your questions:


1. Cards exposed on the flop by dealer error before action is complete.

We currently use 3rd from bottom and replace it. I like the Broadway rules that get them shuffled back in2 the pack.


If a card is exposed by dealer error then it should definitely be shuffled back into the pack to allow it to reapper.  It is simply not fair to remove this card from play and why oh why did 3rd card from the bottom be the rule? - definitely shuffle it back into the pack and carry on.


2. Cards shown by players.

Currently penalised by not being able to bet again. Other places automatically disqualify them. If d'q do they get chips back etc.etc.


If a player shows his or her cards in error then they shouldn't be disqualified - this happens at sheffield and in my opinion is a terrible way to resolve a situation (it is open to abuse by players who can motion like they are all in but keep chips back - this in turn can lead to their oppo to turn their cards over and disqualify theirselves.)  If a players cards are exposed accidentally then yes, they should not be allowed to make the betting again, only be allowed to call an opponents bet.


3. Moody rule??? Speech play? Should they go or not go?



Yes!!! - i like speach play and moodys - its all part of the game! - Deception and cunning are vital tools in a poker game - lets have em'!


4. Betting out of turn. Should it stand??? Had a few complaints about that one over last few weeks. Oh well.

Hmmmmm! - if someone announces raise out of turn and then the player before them raises themselves, its a bit unfair if they then HAVE to re-raise.  I think a bet out of turn should just be returned to the player and they then be made to act in turn.  (yes, this could lead to moody's but i like moody's - its all part of the game remember!!)


5. Passing out of turn consistently. This is a new one and is becoming more commonplace due to the No Smoking rule. People r looking at their cards then leaving the table. This is giving valuable information to people still to act.

How bout they have to automatically call but their cards are removed. Will that solve the problem.


If someone passes out of turn then they should be given a warning by the dealer, if they do it again then another warning should be given and the card room supervisor informed.  if they do it a third time then they should be given a ten minute sittting out ban! - simple!   If they get a ban once then they won't do it again!

STRING BETTING
for a string bet to be called there must be two clearly definable actions, ie two seperate movement of chips or "call and raise" simply dropping a pile of chips infront is not a string bet and gains the bettor NO information.

2. Cards shown by players.

Currently penalised by not being able to bet again. Other places automatically disqualify them. If d'q do they get chips back etc.etc.


If a player shows his or her cards in error then they shouldn't be disqualified - this happens at sheffield and in my opinion is a terrible way to resolve a situation (it is open to abuse by players who can motion like they are all in but keep chips back - this in turn can lead to their oppo to turn their cards over and disqualify theirselves.)  If a players cards are exposed accidentally then yes, they should not be allowed to make the betting again, only be allowed to call an opponents bet.


Errrrrrr Junior......this changed in Sheffield in April
Tis now as the TDA rules

what is the rule freak?
they changed it to disqualification at walsall recently and after about 2 weeks changed it back!! caused more trouble than it tried to solve

sorry craig, wasn't aware it had changed - thought yor hand was still dead at sheff if you turned your cards over whils your oppo still had chips? - my apologies! - if it has changed then its for the good!

Totally agreed. The abuse new players get from the anal regulars over this one is terrible. I've even heard the old "those chips touched the table first" chestnut. It's horrendous and can only turn people off the game. I was really surprised by how relaxed this was in Vegas. Common sense ruled. Someone holding their hand over the pot and dropping individual chips one at a time was fine, as long as their arm didn't come back to their stack for more - and rightly so IMO.

Theres this plonker in the self deal game at leeds, a foreign sounding chap, who was banging the table to get people to act because he wanted more time to get more rebuys and really aggressive. Me being the young 20 yo on table took it upon myself to try and teach the bloke manners to which i am told to piss off if i dont like because i talk too much at the table.... when was that ever a crime, gaining information... There were a couple of new players on the table at the time and i just cant see how this sort of aggressive behaviour can encourage them to come and play again.

He was trying to intimidate me, being young and all raising his voice etc, shame this doesnt work with a 6ft, 15stone rugby players eh ;)

String Betting!--- Never known anyone to try and gain an advantage by doing this, stupid rule and does lead to new folk getting stick at the table! Get Rid!

personally im not too bothered about the first 2 points
speech play - i like it, i find it amusing as long as it is not personally abusive or imtimadating

betting out of turn - it should stand but like junior said of there is a raise and somebody has announced raise out of turn im not sure if they should be made to reraise, and what if somebody calls out of turn but then somebody raises they should not have to call the raise because they are calling what is already done not what is about to be done but i beleive if someone moves all in out of turn it should stand.(slightly tricky matter)

folding out of turn- what happens when somebody leaves the table to go to the toilet and they miss 4 hands they are always folding 1st because their cards are removed so i dont thinks that matters too much

If somebody calls out of turn then they must call, if the person to their right raises they should have the option to call or fold only, if they fold they should forfeit the original out of turn call.
If somebody raises out of turn, the raise should get passed back to them and the option of folding when action comes to them should be discounted. This makes players a little more wary and less likely to pull a stroke, a penalty has been served on the "out of turner". Does this sound a bit harsh?

And controversially I am not in favour of Verbal but thats just my opinion.

Speech play- I think this is terrible. All talking at the table should be banned IMO, we are there to play poker not have a good time and enjoy ourselves. What except important information can possibly be gained by asking questions and rabbitting on? ;)

One rule I would like to see is the tourny director watching over the final table all the while.
As there are a lot of friends in poker and when they reach the final table it is so obvious they dont bet against each other. Would be interesting to see what happened if they knew they director could see what cards they folded if they suspected anything.
Its what puts a lot of people of playing live knowing that if they reach final table they might be playing against a team on final table

as discussed in another thread recently, no-one at Blonde condones that. We all play as hard against our friends as against anyone else. No blonde will ever colude, soft play or cheat in any other way.
Do we need to come up with some sort of pledge? ;)

No, if your not honourable enough not to collude, why should you be honourable enough to keep a pledge?

Does that meke sense to anyone else  ??? ??? :D

There are poker sites who check players hole cards if they are suspected of collusion or i would call it soft play, Is there any reason a casino can not do this or do they not want to pee off there regulars. You play at where im talking about red-dog do you not feel the same or am i just losing my marbles.

You are not losing em so much as being cheated out of em

What gets up my nose is, people say "Oh we don't bet against each other" quite openly, in fact they seem to be proud of it, no one ever picks them up for it

This is why I only play rarely there. I enjoy playing live and will give Leicester a go as there is one casino that has started and I know the new one is starting poker next month as well so hopefully it might be different. You can not beat live poker to internet poker two totally different games but the live action just gets your pulse racing that little bit faster.

I'm not sure why players are so concerned about helping out there m8s at the table. How about this philosophy: Play aginst them as if they were any other player. If they take your chips with a bluff or something, then at least they're going to someone you like.

Just as a note - I personally find it very difficult to play against friends and family. I hate it when they are at my table. I force myself to play properly against them. Some of you love taking pots or outwitting your m8s, but I don't. Everyone's different. However, I still knock them out of comps if the opportunity arises. It's something you have to do. I would never fold a tiny amount at a final table to keep a friend in. It's wrong and unfair. I do it because it's how the game should be played, but I don't like it. I knocked one of my best m8s out of the 300 at Notts, and it pained me to do so. I took no enjoyment from it.

To conclude, pls remember that some individuals find it very difficult to play against friends and family.

reminds me when we were down to 11 in a comp at walsall, a pal and i were chipleader and very close second and sitting next to each other!!
I won't bore you with the details but i bet every street and he called, eventually i put him in on the river and ended up knocking him out on the bubble!!!
Needless to say he was not amused but at the end of the day we were trying to knock each other out!!
Ian

My point is this: To some, it may not be an enjoyable experience to play hard against friends and family, but give them credit for doing so. And to soothe the arkwardness, I always tell myself, 'well, he knocked me out, but at least someone I like has all my chips.' - that's what I'd encourage your m8 to think, ifm, when you bubbled him. As someone once said, 'always look on the bright side of life.'

That is what poker is all about take your chance regardless of who you are playing against. We all know its hard betting against friends and family but that is what the game is all about.

Not an issue for me, if they are on my table I want their chips, no matter how much I love em

there are a few err 'friends' at walsall who 'play together', pisses me off.

Sometimes when I play against friends, I think twice about bluffing. I have to be much more selective and pick my spots more carefully. Not because they are my buddies and I wanna play soft against them, but because I know that there's a good chance they'll work me out. If anyone knows when I'm telling porkies, it's those closest to me.  :D

Does anyone else find this true, or is it easier to con your m8s than other players?

Yeah. How big is that village?!?!?

Nothing more frustrating when they say 'Don't bother. Just deal out the cards.'

Blatant cheating in my book.

And why is no-one from my village!!!  :D

nobody ever believes me ;D

I'm pretty sure i'm from your village.  ;)

BUMP

oops i bumped my head