blonde poker forum

As most of you know from this thread - http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=15046.0 - we were planning to hold an event in Scotland (The Scottish Amateur Poker Championship) in November. A venue had been sourced where we could engineer a capacity well over 400.

Sadly, we have been unable to overcome, in time for the event, one detail, (Disabled Access) & this single detail prevents us from having the event in the desired venue in November. We are extremely hopeful that the problem can be addressed by February, & the Management of the venue, who have worked closely with us from the very start, are pulling out all the stops to solve this problem. PLEASE don't be speculating on where the Venue was, nothing is to be gained by so doing, & we fully intend to be there in early 2007, so we don't want to ruffle any feathers. It remains the plan to have the Scottish Amateur Poker Championship at this Venue, assuming they can resolve the access problems.

We will still hold an Event in November, on the scheduled date. A venue has been sourced, in England, and details will be announced very shortly.

One last word on the delayed Scottish Event. I visited the Venue some months back, on my own, with a "check-list" of what was needed to satisfy APAT criteria. Local Managament were extremely obliging, & we worked through the entire list, successfully, within an hour or two. But i missed just one item - Disabled Access - & took a chance, assuming it would be OK. It was not, & I'm mortified that my mistake has messed up the schedule. These things happen, but I apologise for the inconvenience this rearrangement of our schedule will cause.

 No probs Tikay...these things happen....looking forward to the next event no matter where!

Thanks for the update tikay.

I will refrain from making an "I told you so" comment to all those who said it was "definate" and "a done deal".

 rotflmfao you just did!

I know :dontask: :D

Make it within driving distance from edinburgh !!

ooo where's the one in England?? Go on tell me tell me.  Is it towards the south? 

Well, it's south of Edinburgh.......

lol most places are :)

must be in Newcastle....that's in Scotland isn't it

Glenrothes?

Gotta be sunny Birmingham :D

Thats unfortunate, after the brilliant event we did have in birmingham, i hope it is birmingham again, would love to have you all back here  ;goodvevil; 8) :D Th Js Qd Kc Ahrt

Birmingham is ok for me, I can travel that far :)

my moneys on star city  ;)

The Broadway would be fine and dandy for me.

 8)

Odds - very short.

please try and give us atleast 4 weeks notice as if we are any closer than 4 weeks the costs double

I'm not a member so dont feel you ahve any requirement to give info on this... but, how many disabled members do you have, and how unaccessible was the venue? I can imagine how hard 400+ venues are to come by without any other possible constraints.

Where's Star City please?

Thanks Rooky.

We don't now how many Members we have with Mobility problems. I think it'd be discriminatory to ask, actually.

We had 3 guys at Event # 1 in wheelchairs, & they pay the same Membership dues as everyone else, & so are entitled to equal access.

I'm told it's in the Midlands.

It's between Junctions 5 and 6 of the M6.  You can see it from the motorway.  I would post a link to their website, but if I remember correctly it's absolutely shocking so I won't bother.

Remember guys - we did not announce a Venue in Scotland, & we have not announced the alternative venue.

We'd rather you did not speculate in public, as it leads to all sorts of probs.

Thanks.

3 out of the 120 members that turned up at broadways were in wheelchairs lets say that this is spread through the whole of the apat 2-3% of the membership are wheelchair users with 400 places we could have 8-12 members in wheelchairs turning up

maybe the first event was a quirk of stats and the 3 that turned up in wheelchairs are the only 3 wheelchair users in apat i feel that we (yes i am in a chair for those that dont know) have the same rights as everyone else to play

i for 1 am greatfull to the APA for taking this stand i wish the WPT the EPT and the european ranking would make a similair stand

It is shocking, the area, the people, the casino, everything!!

 rotflmfao rotflmfao yes its in birmingham

Fair enough.

I just think if i was running a restaurant/club, for memebrs only, I could provide a better service by knowing how many people were vegetarians or didnt like spicy food etc... and my members in turn would recognise this benefit and be willing to provide (and benefit from) the info.

Point taken & understood Rooky - but the difference is, one chooses to be a vegatarian.

Point taken...

Don't know why you feel the need to apologize Tikay these things happen and you had not announced anything yet. It does beg the question where to go in the future with the live events though. So much good word was spread about the first events its not going to take long to outgrow any possible locations in the UK and I don’t imagine we will all be able to decamp to the Rio every couple of months. I think some kind of regional qualifying is almost inevitable. Could be a very good thing for an amateur association, You could create 6 regions (South, Midlands,North,Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland). I don’t think you would have to many problems getting 100 runners for each, all could pay £50 entry and the top 30% could qualify for the national competitions with accommodation and travel paid. But i dont know the numbers so could all be nonsense for all I know. Anyway keep your chin up the concepts solid as a rock.

i might be wrong but is it not the case that venues have to be reasonably wheelchair friendly...or have made efforts to be disabled friendly.according to legislation..or is that just a workplace requirement

i would have thought that the proposed venue should be taking this on board and doing something about it.....from a legal and a moral standpoint...a chance to score some positive points??

however apat made a good decision here..well done

The DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) was passed in 1995, stating that: “It's unlawful for a service provider to discriminate against a disabled person by refusing to provide any service which it provides to members of the public.”

All casinos SHOULD be as accessible as possible to the public (whether they are 'members' or not).

The APAT is making the correct decision on this one.  There were three people in wheelchairs at the Broadway Casino, as the numbers at these events increases, this number will surely increase.  Also APAT is still growing, and it should be an inclusive organisation - which is obviously what it is striving to be.

Early teething problems, they'll all get sorted sooner or later.  Keep up the good work.

Tis a shame, but these things do happen and Tikay told us straight.

I do not fear for future events, having complete confidence in the APA delivering.

I love the Broadway and it is nice and close to me, but it only held 120 leaving a lot of disapointed punters.

Could we not use the 400 seat venue where everyone gets a seat and work together to get round the wheelchair issue together, I would happily help to lift in and out (in case of a fire etc).
Or would this be a problem legally?

It is a legal, for the venue, and a practical, for us and the disabled person, problem.


The scottish venue is a category b listed building and thus currently exempt from the provisions of the DDA. However they are keen to have us and are working hard at meeting our needs for 2007, for which we are grateful


The venue we are hopefully close to securing for 18/11 will have no capacity issues.

Thanks for the update Tikay.  Absolutely the right decision.  I was planning to travel to Scotland for event 2 and still plan to go in February when the issues have been sorted.  However it is vital that every member has the same opportunity to play in the event and I am sure the alternative venue will be able to accomodate all members who wish to attend.  Looking forward to the next event, wherever it may be.

Fair enough,

Well going by the rumours, if it is an "all you can seat" venue in the midlands.
Expect my entry fee about 2 minutes after you announce it!

Zeb

p.s. Looks like once again (last 3) I will miss ANOTHER online event tomorrow....bloody saturdays, the wife seems to think her Aunts 50 wedding anniversary party is more important....this is not helping my league status!

Casinos don't "provide a service", nor are they open to members of the public. You have to join first, so they are strictly members only.

 :blonde:

lol :D What service do they provide? Fire, Police, Water? Perhaps gas. They serve beer and food, but I'd hardly call that a service! Thats more of a consumable rather than something in a service industry.

They provide the service of a means of loosing money, thats what! But I doubt that can be classed as a service either :)

Customer service??

I was more wondering what the DDA would say when a manager wouldn't sign a member of the publics "intent to game" slip, because someone was disabled?

Hey don't pick on me, I was the one who "ratted" about the lack of disabled access in the first place. :D

LOL I am a strip of piss :D never picked on anyone, spesh not a scotsman ;surrender;

I'm nae Scawtish!

publically


10 years ago at my brothers wedding i was carried up and down a flight of stairs to the reception unfortunately at the end of the evening one guy lost his footing and i ended up going down the last 3 steps on my neck breaking it, neither the APA or the casino would be able to insure against such a thing happening and both would end up bankraupt if such an accident happened

having been to the premises in question previously the steps and stairs are of such a design that it would make it very difficult to carry people safely

also the first APAt event saw all the wheelchair users in fairly lightweight chairs but it is possible that at future events a member in a heavy electric chair could turn up these chairs are heavy enough on there own and would be impossible to lift up a staircase safely

Casinos and private members clubs have to comply with the DDA if they have over 25 members. 

To endorse what Ironside said, we will not be cutting any corners on this.   

I have spoken to several companies about providing temporary mobility solutions for our preferred venue in Scotland, and health and safety was our number one consideration.  The fact that we are not going to Scotland yet tells its own story about the suitability of the options available. 

As we have pushed the tournament back, the management at the venue in question are now investigating options that would meet all criteria, and in reality they will have several challenges to overcome to integrate a solution, such as the strict building regulations within their listed building etc.  They may not succeed but I hope they do.  They are progressive in their thinking and we would like to take the APAT there.   And if this initiative enables future wheelchair users to use the venue long after the APAT has gone, then what a great win-win for everyone concerned.

Cheers,

Des.

Hi Daniel,

My understanding is that there are certain exclusions, on the grounds of building status and the length of time the business has been at that location.   Makes no sense to me in this day and age, but it would clarify that the venue in question is not working outside of the law. 

Regards,

Des.

whatever! at least if you get knocked out you could go next door to lazer force or goals for some light entertainment to get over it! :D

Just a note about communication of this issue.  I think it is great that this has been announced on blonde allowing members to voice their feelings on the matter, however the apat website is still stating the next live event will be in Scotland.  What about the members who are not blonde?  Des, Tikay will the website be updated soon?  I think that communication of changes in schedule should be available to all members.  I also realise that you probably want to announce the new venue at the same time, however some members who are not blonde may not apprecaite this being on blonde only.  Maybe this is not an issue and I don't mean to be negative, the communication to apat members (emails & website) has been excellent, just thought I would mention it.   

Those who are directly affected by this law might know the details, but my impression was that it's virtually toothless. I think if a company can 'prove' that it would be prohibitively expensive they don't have to worry about it.

Hi James,

The details that have been posted in this thread were in direct response to a thread that has been running in the Live Poker category for some time now.  In our last APAT newsletter on Tuesday, I stated that discussions were ongoing concerning the next venue, and that I anticipated being able to update the membership in the next week to ten days.  Until agreement is reached with the venue, there isn't actually anything to announce yet!

Regards,

Des.

Des, I did see Tikay mention that the building was listed, and therefore the casino in question would be a special case.  I wasn't criticising that casino - just responding to a point that was made earlier.

Jon, I couldn't agree with you more. The way the DDA is enforced is a joke.  It's like fire safety regulations, it completely depends on the local authorities how they are enforced - or not enforced in many cases.  I work with websites, and the DDA is meant to apply to online services as well as off.  No one has been prosecuted for flouting the DDA - even some very high profile cases have come to nothing - which means that companies can continue to get away with doing nothing to help them comply.

It's good to see the APAT is doing the right thing, and like Des said - this positive stance will benefit people outside the APAT as well.

Just one thing though. If there is going to be wheelchair access and Ironside is going to be taking part - can the APAT issue ear defenders to all players?

Cheers Des

I think it is great that blonde can act as a place where you are able to respond to members queries in person and I appreciate that you wanted to address the thread as soon as possible.  Although there is no venue to announce just yet, we do now know it won't be in Scotland, whereas the apat wesite is still advertisng the Sccottish Championship in November.  As the apat website is the main contact for all members then I feel an update on there would ensure all members knew what was happening.  Nuff said about this, communication in general is excellent, just received a mail about the Spanish Open tomorrow, looking forward to it and hoping for medal (well points anyway).

I'm looking forward to the next live event also, regardless of venue, will see you there in November.

There must be some Health and Safety Regulations that apply?  :D

Gag him?

Seriously, what a good debate this is, Disabled Access IS important to some folks - VERY important. We've thrashed it around a bit, & that's no bad thing in my opinion, if we can raise the awareness level.

the DDA is a total joke

in my local city i cannot buy clothes from next unless i want to be a drag queen and to be honest my legs aint good eough

also in the local shopping centre that was built about 10 years ago they have nearly everything perfect a multi storey car park with a shed load of WIDE disabled parking (ok its on the roof with no cover) that are on the flat and has easy access to the centre inside they have the cafe and food halls downstairs with access through a lift, BUT the wh smiths has 3 floors one has access from the street the other from inside the centre with easy access to both areas BUT the 3rd floor has a large staircase to access it with no lift and no way for me to get to it, on the 3rd floor is all the PC stuff games etc DVDs music and the like, they get round the DDA by saying everytime i ask "tell us what you want and we will get it for you" problem is i dont know what i want i like to browse and decide if there is anything i like and they refuse to bring down the whole stock so i can browse

DDA isnt worth the paper it is written on or the time,effort and money wasted on getting into law

I think that not updating the web-site to inform APAT members that the November event won't be in Scotland could be a potential PR disaster should some people be in the process of booking flights/trains/hotels for Glasgow.  I know that APAT has never said that the event would be in Glasgow but it was always a strong favourite and these costs can be substantially reduced by booking at least a month in advance. 

Okay Gents, due to weight of opinion being against me on this one, we will add a piece of warning text to the website later today.  I appreciate your feedback.

Regards,

Des.

edit - that is...when I can get our technology director free over the weekend to make the change.  Unfortunately he was away today.

On the brightside, if the venue doesn't have disabled access, Iron can't steal my blinds.

Anyone who has booked flights in advance based on some hearsay needs a big mug hat and to be placed in the corner and told not to speak.

Or even better put next to me at a poker table!  I will even give them position on me as well  :D

i havent stolen a blind in my life

they are called partially sighted in the PC world i live in ;D

They have PC Worlds up there???

I didnt even know they had computers



 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

Is there any further news about the next live event - other than what's on the APAT site?

It's less than a month away now, and I know that people travelling will be keen to book hotels.  Also as it's now spread over three days (two Day 1s I assume?), some people will need to book days off work (and might have to give a month's notice), etc.

I'm sure everyone concerned is working flat out to make it a success, and this is much appreciated by everyone.  :)up  But I'm sure I'm not the only one who's keen to find out more about it.

Cheers,

Daniel

I'm afraid there isn't any news yet. A lot of work is going on with the intended venue but these things take a bit of time

We are as keen as you are to tie things up and get those tickets on sale.

Apologies for the delay.

Any update on a venue yet for the November tourney????

er, see my reply above!

Not a problem, I hate to plan things more than 7 days in advance anyway.
Just more time for them to go wrong.

i aint worried about my hotel there prices never go up much but my flight is going up every minute i wait

Given this a shameless bump to see if any more news is forthcoming? I dont think I can justify travelling if we hear a week before as the flights just sky rocket.

We are hoping to be able to announce something tomorrow. There are good reason for the delay. The announcement will leave adequate time for arrangments to ve made, we hope, certainly more than a week.

APAT apologise that we have encountered this problem, but we are sorting it.

You can get cheaper offers at some hotels if you book a few weeks, or a month in advance, Travelodge for example.

slightly off topic but todays pokerplayer mag had the APAT review in it..

what did you think of the coverage Matt?

Well it said i was overnight chip leader when i wasnt. I guess you get different coverage from different people when covering events.

IMO the writeup on the APAT site was better more detailed and geared towards poker players where as some of the descrpitions in the mag are dumbed down but I suppose they don't have the freedom to write as many words as they may possibly like to.

Im just happy with being famous...

There also wasnt enough ironside references (or pics for that matter) guy was the life of the tournie :)

I haven't received mine yet ...mmm.

Absolutely - thought he was excellent. 










Although the lack of pictures is probably a good thing (children could get hold of the magazine you know!).

horses for course, but thanks for the compliment anyway!

Got mu pokerplayer today......three pictures of me...sweet...i only came second!! I have more pictures than Dan!!! lol....Agree with Matt, they got a lot of the play wrong...but hey thats the price you pay for celebrity status!!!!

There also wasnt enough ironside references (or pics for that matter) guy was the life of the tournie :)

[/quote]

 ;iagree; :goodpost:

Waits patiently

Not as impatient as us Matt believe me

Listen, there's no Live Aid this year.....so there you go ....Hyde Park :)up

    .....slip Queenie a a couple of quid, hire a couple of big tents,,no stairs!,...and those that bust out early can pop over the Sportsman or Vic.

I can probably seat 25 players 50 if you include the garden... gonna be a bit tight though!

Any update re a venue????

frustratingly not yet, waiting for the venue and chasing every day.

Joking aside, we understand these arrangements at relatively short notice, given such large numbers, can cause problems/questions to sort out.

.....one quick question,( if it can be answered now or not?).... for those of us that work,will there be an option of not playing Friday??

 ;frustrated;

As it's for amateurs, I'd assume that most will be working on the Friday - and be looking to take it off as a holiday if necessary.   

I guess we wait to see how it's going to be organised.  I can understand that those who need to make arrangements sooner rather than later will be more concerned than those who don't have to travel as far - although no one is sure yet how far they will have to travel.

I'm sure the APAT are working furiously behind the scenes trying to get it sorted - it's frustrating for all concerned.

I like bumping this just to see all the people clamber to see if there has been more news. :)

bastard ;)

 ;grr;








 ;D

By posting this you did exactly the same as I did dan, bumped it! shame on you.

 rotflmfao

Got an email from APAT again today but there was no  new news in it.

Why cant i post a reply without jumping this to the top of the page.

Sorry if u read this thinking it was good news  ;goodvevil;

 ;scarymoment;

 ;busted;

The email from APAT did state that plans for the next live event will be announced by this Sunday...

...and that remains the case.

We really are sorry for the delay in announcing the venue for Event # 2. We've had a nightmare, what with one thing & another. I guess it's to be expected in Season One, but we will get it right, & we are not going anywhere that does not meet all of our criteria.

Once again, sorry, but we are nearly there now. I hope..........

Whatever happens, we will tell you the story!

whats the score with the pro-am series of tournaments? last I heard it was a maybe, I was wondering if it was going to stay like that for the immediate future or if there were advancements anywhere

best wishes

It's a "very probably", but we will not do it this Season. We think it's right that we get the foundations of the APAT Tour right before we do the Pro-Am thing, but it will happen next year, I'm confident of that. Added Value, too.....

ok thanks...should be good fun

If there is a pro-am, wouldn't there be a thread a mile long deciding who is pro and who is am?  ;goodvevil; Qc

thats rather the point, you could be pro or am and no one would care!

(would be the first ever poker tournament looking to avoid 1000 post thread)

With all your TV appearances I think you count as a pro ham. :D

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Do we have a decision today on the venue for the next live event yet??

Looks like Tikay and Tighty are playing the Southern Masters event tonight so I doubt it.  I think Des said yesterday that Monday was more likely for an announcement.

Sheriff

Pro-ham, well I would have a good chance of taking home the bacon.  :D
As for the weekend of the 18th i am now taking the Mrs for a romantic weekend to Eastlands, so won't be able to make where ever it will be.

Thanks Sheriff...yes, an announcement late tomorrow or by mid Tuesday is now much more likely. 

Des.

sorry des but every couple of days you say its will be announcd in a couple of days now its another couple of days

itsnow less than 3 weeks till the proposed date costs are going up by the hour if you have to fly

Ironside,

I am well aware of the costs issue.  Please be assured that we are working on behalf of our members interests and not against them.   Please also bear in mind that we are reliant on third parties.

When we are in a position to confirm our plans, it is my belief that  you will not be disappointed. 

Des.

Its all a cunning plan to limit the numbers lol ;whistle;

So what will the limit be this time?

As I understand it, it will be on a first come (ie frist to visit the site and request a seat) first serve basis.

The timing of the announcement is therefore critical - ie if it is during the day when some people work, then it will be sold out before they get the chance to register?

Just a thought

It should be ok - if they are all amateurs as is the requisit to becoming a member then they'll all be at work during the day!!  ;goodvevil;

all being well, there will be a few days gap between announcement of event and registration opening.

Watches can be synchronised, broadbands checked, and debit card expiry dates checked!

Cheers for keeping us up to date, dying to know where it will be.

thats not a great idea
another couple of days before we can book our flights and hotels because we dont know if we are in add more to the costs