blonde poker forum

Seat 5 - SABRESFAN_21 ($24.85 in chips)
Seat 7 - GIBBAN444 ($100.30 in chips)
Seat 8 - GOTCHA_ ($259.10 in chips)
Seat 9 - BKONEJOE ($114.35 in chips)
Seat 1 - BENWILL ($97 in chips)
Seat 4 - TOSSMAN ($229.75 in chips)
GIBBAN444 - Posts small blind $0.50
GOTCHA_ - Posts big blind $1
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to GOTCHA_ [Qh Qs]
BKONEJOE - Calls $1
BENWILL - Calls $1
TOSSMAN - Folds
SABRESFAN_21 - Calls $1
GIBBAN444 - Calls $0.50
GOTCHA_ - Raises $7 to $8
BKONEJOE - Raises $24 to $25
BENWILL - Folds
SABRESFAN_21 - Folds
GIBBAN444 - Folds

fold, call or push?
If you call and the flop comes low rags what is your play?

if i dont have any info on my opponent i tend to fold at least 80% of the time , and call the rest of the time...i never push in a cash game preflop with Queens and such a deep stack...pushing is absolutely the worst play here in my opininion

I agree with fishguts.

Put it like this: if BKONEJOE has KK or AA, you have made the correct play by folding.  If BKONEJOE doesn't have KK or AA, then he is a fish.  A win/win situation for you, surely.

I'm not so sure he has Aces or Kings here, in a cash game I am getting my chips in here there is no way I am laying down pocket queens in this situation. 

I agree with bandit (Lord help me). With pocket Queens I might very well be willing to stick in 100$ (depending on my opponents betting history at the table) and since that is all oppo has left I would be very tempted to push here.

If you flatcall and the flop comes low rags you see what oppo does as he is first to act...but I can already guarantee you he'll be pushin.

Of course, but if you call preflop and an ace falls then you can be fairly sure you're beat 99% of the time. I wouldn't push here if i did decide to play the hand.

yeah but that's the eternal problem with pocket queens...

I think it is a bit of a donkey play to bet 115 BB preflop with QQ.  Sensible opponents will be folding JJ, AK, etc, to this sort of bet.  The majority of the time you get called, you will be dog.


You mean, because if an Ace comes then you are (still) losing to KK and AA?

then what do you do? fold pocket queens to a pre flop check raise?

I reraise the re-raiser..I am fine with him folding if he has JJ AK etc. If he has me beat then that's fine to...but he ain't getting a free shot if he's overplaying AK.

To be honest i would probably dump this hand unless i had seen the guy pull this move often. What i was trying to point out to boldie was that if the guy puts 1/5th of his stack in preflop, he is likely to put a good deal more in on the flop. Assuming that your oppo's hand range is AA, KK and AK then by calling you escape with your stack the times when an overcard hits on the flop. What i'm trying to say is that this guy is putting his money in anyway, there is nothing to be gained by pushing preflop.

I got your point my friend..however..why give the AK guy a chance to hit?

He never said he would. He did say however, he would dump this hand, based on what sort of player he is, more often than not.

Why give the AA/KK guy all your money in one hand with a preflop 115 bb push in a cash game?

Had pretty much this exact same hand yesterday except i raised and was re-raised by a guy on the button. I re-raised again and he called. I pushed on a flop of 883 (i was pushing any flop) and got called by his TT.

So they not always gonna fold their JJ, AK etc.

Supa, Mrs Lime, you guys probably think I overplayed my QQ here?

On the button makes a big difference. The only problem with your play here imo is that you have told the guy you have a big pair, thankfully he was too stupid to listen.

you make a fair point my friend... this thread has turned into a "Fold queens pre-flop" thread and lord knows I have seen enough of these. I have only folded them pre flop once and would not be inclined to fold them here.
For one very simple reason...I imagine I'm AA/KK guy . only with KK would I reraise. and then only to push A rag out.

If I have Aces I will not reraise by sucha  large amount.

I therefore take the guy for KK or AK. and that's a 50-50 shot I'll take

lol, so your taking a 50/50 shot that he has AK and not KK.

You then have $120 in the middle on this 50/50, if you are wrong and he has KK, you are now a big underdog. If you are correct and he has AK, you are racing.

Put yourself in this position, do you raise here with AK after Gotcha has raised OOP himself??

I take raises from the BB very seriously myself...but not because they are out of position..but because they know how many people are still in the hand and therefore can apply the rule of four. they know if there are more then 4 people in the pot one of them is likely to call so raising with rubbish is a foolish play.

now assume the guy has KK. (We'd need more table history to be sure about this but assume it's an average table..not very agressive..not very tight) you think the guy limps in from under the gun with KK? giving A rag a chance to limp in?

Only if there had been plenty of raises instigated by certain players at the table would he make the play this way with KK...otherwise he would have raised it up himself.

I agree that you don't wanna be all in pre with QQ with 100BBs. I thought I had seen this guy do the same move earlier with air but when I checked PT it was a straight reraise with suited connectors, not a limp reraise. He had AA.

Is limp reraising with air a good move occasionally if most people will fold QQ?

How many BBs before you don't want to be all in pre with KK. I have been stacked for 200 BBs too many times, I'm thinking about folding it. If 200 is too low what about 300 or 400?

i know i would be playing KK this exact way UTG, limp raising... If there is no raise, and the flop comes an ace, or even if the flop seems nice in a multiway pot and there is too much action, you must know when to fold your hand. Do you raise with KK utg then? And if so, to how much?

You still havent answered my previous question either, if you would be so kind to do so..

ok first to the unanswered question. "Do I raise with AK after he raised out of position if I have AK" yes I have done so in the past (I tend to limp now to make it pay off but in certain situations I still will to mix it up a bit) simply because people fold QQ and lower..as you can see an awfull lot of people on this forum will fold it. and you will find a BB can still raise if there are only a few limpers in the pot if he has AJ AQ sooted. (which I also do occasionally)


Depending on the table I raise about 4x BB with KK UTG.

And you think $4 will scare out rag aces on a cash table??? Nope.

as to you saying you would limp raise with AK here well, i refer you to your own quote : "I reckon that in todays game of extremely agressive players, slow playing the AK can be more profitable when you hit than constantly raising with them is. They are nothing more tha drawing shand afterall and I find it happens a lot that if you do stick a large number of chips in that you get busted when you completely miss the flop."

Why would you want to scare out rag aces with KK?

;iagree;

Why would you want to scare ANYTHING out with KK?

Well i'd like to scare AA out, but I don't think I could manage it somehow...

 ;D

how can u not tell him this? I think the only way to play QQ is to 3bet preflop if you are raised. if he raises you again u have to fold

Don't raise him a 3rd time. The guy has the betting lead so if you get a favourable flop, you can check it to him and let him build. However, if your stacks are quite big and then you might want to lead weakly (like a probe bet) to get him to reraise and commit to the pot.

This is very a difficult decision due to the amount of chips he has. Normally, if he had a bigger stack, I'd raise again to find out where I stood. Unfortunately, in this case, it could mean that he shoves it in with any number of hands. If he had more chips then he could fold (you take the pot), call (you have him beat and can play accordingly) or raise again (you're screwed unless he's playing A-K very agressively).

Calling here is not an option you should consider as you could fold the winning hand if an Ace or King flops, and may be forced to shove it in on a raggy flop against Aces or Kings. No info will be gained.

He has enough to fold an A-J, T-T, etc to an all-in from you so it's very marginal as sticking it in could see you win a coinflip against A-K, but also tell the rest of the table that you are here to play, not fold all the time to re-raises.

On this occasion, I'd fold. Too often your all-in is called by Aces or Kings. That raise certainly smells of Aces or Kings to me, so I wouldn't be surprised. When someone limps underthegun and then re-raises, it is often Aces or Kings. From my experience, very few players in online cash games make this move with any other hands, so I tend to go with what I have witnessed the majority do and pass.

You haven't invested much, so let it go and, if he wasn't playing Aces or Kings, get him later, cos he's clearly a loose cannon.

Of course, this all goes to pot if you know him to be a maniac, but I'm assuming here that you either have no info on him, or he's a relatively solid player.