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Title: KK hand Post by: ACE2M on October 18, 2006, 09:53:17 PM Level XIV (1500/3000) - 2006/10/17 - 15:46:41 (ET)
Table '33698253 8' 9-max Seat #2 is the button Seat 1: GIN SAN (60883 in chips) Seat 2: Flukewinner (118691 in chips) Seat 3: Billwinall88 (55967 in chips) Seat 4: MTLISTHEBEST (91505 in chips) Seat 5: tommyk1 (31878 in chips) Seat 6: hvilla37 (69200 in chips) Seat 7: P-HW (101899 in chips) Seat 8: sunshine26 (58924 in chips) Seat 9: AbaFinnen (67376 in chips) GIN SAN: posts the ante 150 Flukewinner: posts the ante 150 Billwinall88: posts the ante 150 MTLISTHEBEST: posts the ante 150 tommyk1: posts the ante 150 hvilla37: posts the ante 150 P-HW: posts the ante 150 sunshine26: posts the ante 150 AbaFinnen: posts the ante 150 Billwinall88: posts small blind 1500 MTLISTHEBEST: posts big blind 3000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to tommyk1 [ Kc Kd] tommyk1: raises 6000 to 9000 hvilla37: calls 9000 P-HW: folds sunshine26: calls 9000 AbaFinnen: folds GIN SAN: folds Flukewinner: folds Billwinall88: folds MTLISTHEBEST: calls 6000 *** FLOP *** [2c Aspades 8c] MTLISTHEBEST: checks tommyk1: checks hvilla37: checks sunshine26: bets 6000 MTLISTHEBEST: folds tommyk1: What do you think here? Title: Re: KK hand Post by: GlasgowBandit on October 18, 2006, 09:56:55 PM Fold - instantly!
The only card you dont wanna see hit that flop hits, get out quick. Title: Re: KK hand Post by: Claw75 on October 18, 2006, 10:13:58 PM yep - fold for me.
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: Graham C on October 18, 2006, 10:19:10 PM Fold for me too, although I'd have probably put in a probing bet after the flop to see what's what. You probably are losing but equally, you could be up against lower pairs no?
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: Wardonkey on October 18, 2006, 10:33:16 PM Fold for me too, although I'd have probably put in a probing bet after the flop to see what's what. You probably are losing but equally, you could be up against lower pairs no? He doen't have enough chips to do that. Title: Re: KK hand Post by: Graham C on October 18, 2006, 10:38:42 PM lol oh yeah, fair do's :)
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: jezza777 on October 19, 2006, 02:51:17 AM I dont think this is a instant fold at all. There is 36000 in the pot, you cannot let what could easily be a position or drawing bet take this pot down for 6000. At the very least i see the turn and re-evaluate its only 12000 out of your stack and you can afford it (just). I could also argue for a check raise all in in this spot tho , it shows massive strength but I would need a feel for the player before doing this.
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on October 19, 2006, 03:25:44 AM I dont think this is a instant fold at all. There is 36000 in the pot, you cannot let what could easily be a position or drawing bet take this pot down for 6000. At the very least i see the turn and re-evaluate its only 12000 out of your stack and you can afford it (just). I could also argue for a check raise all in in this spot tho , it shows massive strength but I would need a feel for the player before doing this. I dont think you can afford to call and see a turn. Title: Re: KK hand Post by: jezza777 on October 19, 2006, 03:39:16 AM I dont think this is a instant fold at all. There is 36000 in the pot, you cannot let what could easily be a position or drawing bet take this pot down for 6000. At the very least i see the turn and re-evaluate its only 12000 out of your stack and you can afford it (just). I could also argue for a check raise all in in this spot tho , it shows massive strength but I would need a feel for the player before doing this. I dont think you can afford to call and see a turn. I think you can just afford it. As long as you have enough to make people pass then you are ok especially with high blinds and antes. After the call Ace has 19 k behind which is enough to get into position with enough chips or find a hand. Do you pass then itb? Title: Re: KK hand Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on October 19, 2006, 04:13:16 AM I dont think this is a instant fold at all. There is 36000 in the pot, you cannot let what could easily be a position or drawing bet take this pot down for 6000. At the very least i see the turn and re-evaluate its only 12000 out of your stack and you can afford it (just). I could also argue for a check raise all in in this spot tho , it shows massive strength but I would need a feel for the player before doing this. I dont think you can afford to call and see a turn. I think you can just afford it. As long as you have enough to make people pass then you are ok especially with high blinds and antes. After the call Ace has 19 k behind which is enough to get into position with enough chips or find a hand. Do you pass then itb? Yes, i think i do, with 2 others to act too and as it was the CL who has bet i do yes. Find a spot to chuck em in on the next round. I would probably be limp-raising preflop too here. That way, you either get em in ahead preflop, take it down preflop with a reraise, or get away cheaply when the flop comes nasty like this in a multi way unraised pot. Title: Re: KK hand Post by: jezza777 on October 19, 2006, 04:30:01 AM I think with a 90k stack and everyone checking that the bettors range is too wide to just accept he has an ace here. I see your point about the 2 players to act but I think an ace bets out because of the flush draw and amount of players in. The bettor can easily have a stab at the pot with nothing, have a lower pair or be semiblufing a flush draw . I am 50/50 as to wether I am calling or raising here but I cant find a fold.
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: boldie on October 19, 2006, 09:40:52 AM I think with a 90k stack and everyone checking that the bettors range is too wide to just accept he has an ace here. I see your point about the 2 players to act but I think an ace bets out because of the flush draw and amount of players in. The bettor can easily have a stab at the pot with nothing, have a lower pair or be semiblufing a flush draw . I am 50/50 as to wether I am calling or raising here but I cant find a fold. I might check raise here. You are the pre flop raiser, he can therefore very well put you on a bigger Ace then he has and fold. It might also be possible he's on a flush draw in which case he'll probably call your reraise. if he does and there isn't a spade on the turn I would probably push. I don't particularly like the flatcall here (I can understand the fold of course) because what do you do when a spade comes down? You essentially have to get your chips in when that happens (if you want to win the hand at that stage) but you have no idea what he is on. I quite like a check raise in this situation (though admittedly you could be flying out of the tourney) Title: Re: KK hand Post by: SupaMonkey on October 19, 2006, 10:05:36 AM Does anyone else reraise preflop?
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: boldie on October 19, 2006, 10:09:27 AM Does anyone else reraise preflop? you are the raiser though...I would raise more (upto 12 maybe 15k) but unfortunatly you can't reraise yourself :( Title: Re: KK hand Post by: SupaMonkey on October 19, 2006, 10:13:54 AM Oh sh*t, i misread the HH.
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: Bazzaboy on October 19, 2006, 12:24:14 PM all-in
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: ACE2M on October 19, 2006, 12:37:30 PM Level XIV (1500/3000) - 2006/10/17 - 15:46:41 (ET)
Table '33698253 8' 9-max Seat #2 is the button Seat 1: GIN SAN (60883 in chips) Seat 2: Flukewinner (118691 in chips) Seat 3: Billwinall88 (55967 in chips) Seat 4: MTLISTHEBEST (91505 in chips) Seat 5: tommyk1 (31878 in chips) Seat 6: hvilla37 (69200 in chips) Seat 7: P-HW (101899 in chips) Seat 8: sunshine26 (58924 in chips) Seat 9: AbaFinnen (67376 in chips) GIN SAN: posts the ante 150 Flukewinner: posts the ante 150 Billwinall88: posts the ante 150 MTLISTHEBEST: posts the ante 150 tommyk1: posts the ante 150 hvilla37: posts the ante 150 P-HW: posts the ante 150 sunshine26: posts the ante 150 AbaFinnen: posts the ante 150 Billwinall88: posts small blind 1500 MTLISTHEBEST: posts big blind 3000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to tommyk1 [Kc Kd] tommyk1: raises 6000 to 9000 hvilla37: calls 9000 P-HW: folds sunshine26: calls 9000 AbaFinnen: folds GIN SAN: folds Flukewinner: folds Billwinall88: folds MTLISTHEBEST: calls 6000 *** FLOP *** [2c Aspades 8c] MTLISTHEBEST: checks tommyk1: checks hvilla37: checks sunshine26: bets 6000 MTLISTHEBEST: folds tommyk1: calls 6000 hvilla37: folds *** TURN *** [2c Aspades 8c] [7d] tommyk1: bets 16728 and is all-in sunshine26: calls 16728 *** RIVER *** [2c Aspades 8c 7d] [8s] *** SHOW DOWN *** tommyk1: shows [Kc Kd] (two pair, Kings and Eights) sunshine26: shows [Th Td] (two pair, Tens and Eights) tommyk1 collected 84306 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 84306 | Rake 0 Board [2c Aspades 8c 7d 8s] Seat 1: GIN SAN folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Flukewinner (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Billwinall88 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: MTLISTHEBEST (big blind) folded on the Flop Seat 5: tommyk1 showed [Kc Kd] and won (84306) with two pair, Kings and Eights Seat 6: hvilla37 folded on the Flop Seat 7: P-HW folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: sunshine26 showed [Th Td] and lost with two pair, Tens and Eights Seat 9: AbaFinnen folded before Flop (didn't bet) Thats how it played out. His bet was so weak i thought he either didn't have it or might be pushed off it but i wanted to see the other guy go out first. He dwelled for an age before calling. Title: Re: KK hand Post by: jezza777 on October 19, 2006, 01:22:20 PM What do you think of the call with the 1010 Ace? It looks for all the world like you have a flush draw here and are pushing the turn on a semibluff because of the pot size v your stacksize . He can well afford the call to.
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: boldie on October 19, 2006, 01:33:54 PM What do you think of the call with the 1010 Ace? It looks for all the world like you have a flush draw here and are pushing the turn on a semibluff because of the pot size v your stacksize . He can well afford the call to. I don't get the guy's call to be honest. (Unless he's thinking well, I could always hit another ten and there's a lot in the pot, so I'll chase it) Tommy raised pre flop and flat called the bet on the flop...that to me looks lieka a player with an Ace scared shitless of going of of the tourney because someone's on a flush draw. As soon as the turn comes down and tommy pushes it you can not call the preflop raiser with nothing more then pocket tens...It doesn't matter that tommy didn't have the ace..you have to take him for a better hand then your tens IMO. Like i said...I wouldn't have flat called but reraised him there...in this case that probably would have cost you 16k in chips as he would have folded...but all's well that ends well. Title: Re: KK hand Post by: ACE2M on October 19, 2006, 01:56:50 PM the flat call and push confused him into the call i think, although i absolutely would not have called.
If i was sat in his seat i would put me on AA or another high pair when i flat call, but why would i push the turn with any of these holdings, why wouldn't i want to check down a high pair or value bet/trap with a monster? I took the opinion he was weak and put in the oddest bet i could think of, still could not have reasoned out a call in his position though. I think the re raise on the flop is to dangerous with an unknown player left to act, once hes gone i felt pretty sure i had the best hand. Title: Re: KK hand Post by: jezza777 on October 19, 2006, 02:03:58 PM I agree the flat call on the flop threw him, he expects to get a reraise from a hand that is beating 1010. The turn changes nothing and when you move in he is getting 5-1 for the call . I am not sure I pass tens here especially with plenty of chips. Still I am a fish.
Title: Re: KK hand Post by: ACE2M on October 19, 2006, 03:06:47 PM I agree the flat call on the flop threw him, he expects to get a reraise from a hand that is beating 1010. The turn changes nothing and when you move in he is getting 5-1 for the call . I am not sure I pass tens here especially with plenty of chips. Still I am a fish. 5-1 but the only conceivable hand your beating is a flush draw and i just could not think thats what i am raising with in his position. Title: Re: KK hand Post by: action man on October 19, 2006, 06:40:23 PM am i too late to say re-raise on the flop?
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