blonde poker forum

I would appreciate any advice on the correct/incorrect time to add on in a tournament. I really have no clue if I should always add on or never.

Is it worth adding on if you have a very short stack?
Likewise is there any point adding on if you are one of the chip leaders?

At the moment I nearly always add on regardless of the circumstances, just because "everyone" else is.

Any advice would be much appreciated
 ???

BUMP

bump again

Although many disagree, I don't think a top-up for the chip-leaders is good value.

Er.. yeah... bump here too.  :-\

Ok, I'm not really sure about this one either (hence the bump) but I'll have a go anyway.

At all times in the buy in period if I go below 50% I buy in in order to maximise my chips if I double through.

At the end I only top if I am under 5x the starting stack (for the same reason regarding a double through) however I dont top up with masses of chips.

I'm not really sure if this is "correct" or not it's just what I tend to do. I'd be interested to read others points on this.

On some sites, the add-on is more than the starting stack (Pokerstars the rebuys are 1,500 chips, the add-on is 2,000 chips for the same price). So in that case it is almost always worth adding on, unless your stack is monstrous.

A good rule of thumb for when an add-on is the same number of chips as a rebuy (ie most live rebuy tournies), is that it is worth adding on if you have a below average stack. Having said that, I usually add-on unless I have more than 50% above average chips at the end of the rebuy period.

Rob

One thing you can obviously guarantee is that you're not getting the same bang for your buck for a top up, as you did when you paid to enter.

Imagine a £100 tourney, 50 runners. You buy in and you receive 1000 chips, that's 2% of the 50k total chips starting in play.

By the time top-ups come round there have been a 50 rebuys and there are 100,000 chips in play.

You pay £100 and get your extra 1000 - but now you're only receiving 1% of the chips in play. For the same amount as you spent earlier your £100 is now worth half what it was before. That's a seriously bad purchase. (and the figures chosen above are arbitrary - rebuys are always worth less and less in real terms as the tournament progress and the amount of chips increase). In addition to this the larger your stack the less effect this top up is going to have to have for you.

Now you have to decide whether that effectively double price purchase is worth it and that depends on the effect on the game it will have for you (you could even do some sort of estimate expected value calulation). More often than not I would say that for most of us mere mortals its not going to improve our chance of winning enough to justify the outlay.

Having said all of that I always top up because unspent rebuys physically burn a whole in my pocket. :P

Surely rebuys are better value than the original buyin.

100 runners =99/1

After you lose your original chips and 20% of the field has had a rebuy you are now getting 120/1 for your rebuy.

And so on throught the rebuy period.

no because there are a lot more chips in play ralph - its the percentage of those total chips that you are purchasing that's key.

In a multi-rebuy comp i top up if i have less than 4* my starting stack but if there have been a lot of rebuys and a lot of chips on my table i may take one if i have 5 or 6 times the stack - i tend to go on feel at the time.

its always a tricky one for me, hence the cagey response, i'll just sit and wait for someone with a poker brain to post an intelligent response.

I agree with Junior insomuch as my chipstack relative to the rest of my table governs my decision regarding the add-on.

But the calculation regarding rebuys is completely different for me.

Rebuys and add ons are two different decisions

a) If you get the chance of an immediate top up, like say in a double chance tournament, take it. If not allowed to take it immediately, take it as soon as you are below 50% in chips. If you hit a hand, you want the biggest stack you can get in front of you.

b) rebuys during the first few levels...ALWAYS STICK TO A BUDGET.
    Furthermore there comes a point say when you have no chips, have had a few buyins, theres 20 minutes left, others have plenty of chips when you are  going to do a lot of dough relative to your original buyin chasing marginal hands in order to have a stack post buyin period.
It takes discipline, but think about getting up and trying another night.


c) Top ups. I top up unless I am, as far as I can tell, in the top few for chips. Even then I might sometimes, depending on how much I have spent already.

My advice mainly relates to the £20/£50 bricks and mortar tourneys I play in

On line, and I am thinking specifically of Stars, the top up provides more chips than the rebuy ($2k vs $1.5k). I always take this without exception as clocks are quicker. This is especially crucial in satellites, where winning is not the aim, but qualifying is, and there is no shame in creeping into the qualifiers and the extra add-on may make all the difference

I agree with Tight, and this is almost exactly what I do myself, I always take the immediate add on if possible for the same reasons that he states. You want the most chips, to gain the most back.

It comes to a point in a rebuy though if you are just not playing well, or having a bad run that it simply does not make sence to buy in/add on again. If everyone is sat on your table with 10 - 15k in chips and it is coming to the end of the rebuy time, what is the point in buying back in for on 2k? In the tourneys that I mostly play in online, you need to be on at least 12k by the end of the rebuys to have a realistic shot at the final table, so 2k in chips seems like a waste of time and money, best to let it alone. 

With the add ons, I add on if it will bring me to a level that will allow me to be on average with the field if I find myself a bit low. However, if I am far ahead/major ss I simply don't bother. Have to say though that I think that those extra chips may have a little extra value in the later stages, as again TightEnd points out.

Just my 2p's worth  ;)

Jane x

Junior makes an excellent point about the chips on YOUR table. If the starting stack in a comp was 1000 and almost the entire table has stacks or 8k or 9k I don't see much point in a top up.

Didn't Daniel Negraneau (or however you spell it) make a point at one of the WSOP's that he didn't care how much he spent on buy ins (something like 27 X original stake) as long as the chips were on his table? I know this is an extreme case but you can kind of see his point.

Baron, this is the point I was trying to make too. If you are buying 1k a time and 8 others on your table have 10k each, funded substantially by you...look at the realistic probabilities of that extra rebuy paying off for you

I see your point. In my paragraph here though I was talking about you having 9k as well as the rest of the table.

I have a set amount of rebuys for any tournament, if i haven't used it up i will add on aswell unless i have monster chips.

I sometimes just accept it and walk away if it has been a rebuy frenzy and average stack is say 10k at a table, rebuying for 1k at that point just seems like a huge longshot, i don't have enough chips to play aggressively and i pretty much have to win the 1st pot i enter on a showdown as i am unlikely to be able to push anyone out of a pot.

I always look at it as if I've just walked in off the street, ie, Do I want to spend x amount for x amount of chips at THIS point?, anything that has happened before that point is irrelevant

i must admit i normally add on. the last rebuy i played in was a satellite for the £300 double chance at walsall. i deceided before how much i would spend on rebuys and would not exceed that. at the end ofthe rebuy period i was lucky enough not to rebuy so i took an add on. i was also lucky enough to win a seat. i might of won it for the original £10 entry but it cost me £20 instead which i was more than happy with. so i guess my logig is if you have not done your budget in the rebuy period why not add on

Playing online on stars i will always rebuy straight away - whatever the buy in to give myself as many chips or more chips than the rest of the table and i will always add on regardless of how many chips i have at the end of the rebuy period. Just recently i was playing a $50 rebuy on stars when at the end of the rebuy period i had $40k in chips for just my original entry + instant rebuy (we had 3 players on out table who were just going all in every hand), the 2nd place chip stack had $21k and the 3rd had $16k. 4 of the 5 chip leaders were at our table but i still added on much to the surprise of many observers. i made the final table easily enough but having taken a beat during the final table became the short stack when we got down to 5 handed - luckily i still had enough chips to fight back and ended up winning the 1st prize of $5.4k. As i said to many of the observers - "You never know when the extra chips will come in handy."

When i comes to playing live however its very rare i will add on when playing a small £10 or £20 at the circus or grosvenor as the number of chips given for the add on is small in comparison to the average chip stacks at the table but if playing an event during a festival where the add-ons are a large percentage of chip stack size then i will always take it.

hehehe, i know what the camel would reply to that post of yours  ;D

Bump