blonde poker forum

some additional input would be appreciated,when playing small pairs I tend to limp and hope for a set 7 times out of 10 and raise the other 3 times.
I try to randomise this throughout my session but sometimes it just gets a little predictable so any pointers would be appreciated.

Why do you do that?

do what?

that

ie, when you limp, why do you limp?

When you raise, why do you raise?

This is how i tend to play em, going by ur rule of out of 10 times...

1. Limp
2. Limp
3. Limp
4. Limp
5. Limp
6. Limp
7. Limp
8. Limp
9. Limp
10. Limp

I limp because i use the simple rule, no set no bet, this is only in cash btw!!!

So why do you limp rookie?

Well from late position in to an unraised pot i would tend to raise, thas a given, the limp is to see the cheap flop due to the aggressive way people play AK, AQ, KQ and similar types of hands, I figure that if I get in cheap I can stack them later if they hit a high card.

No set no bet... your hand is disguised as any other, by not raising preflop you then dont commit yourself to the pot, and you dont try and convince yourself that you are ahead or have to make "value" calls because the pot is big enought to justify.. You limp, you dont set up, you lose $1 (or whatever the blinds)... You limp, you set up, you take somebody's stack.

So you're after stacking someone who overplays their top pair. Get in as cheaply as possible to do so.
That's fair enough.


Why is it a given?

Does it not differ depending if others have limped or not?

If it's passed to me on the button I'd be more tempted to raise with a small pair then if i have 5 limpers.

Precisely

Why, this is cash remember, tournament play would be different obviously.

I dont rightly know to be honest, its just the way I have always played, ie in the cut off with 3 limpers and just the blinds to act I would open the pot for 5x the BB to scoop the blinds, if the BB calls I would pop in a continuation bet if I dont make a set.

I think thats they way i learned how to play the game and its stayed with me.

Well if there are 5 limpers then I am unlikely to take the pot there and then.

I will just be building a pot that i am unlikely to win.

If I limp also i am getting in cheap with a decent chance to win a big pot if i hit.

If it's passed to be then I can raise from the button and maybe pick up the blinds, maybe hit a set or maybe win the pot with a bet on the flop.

Good point however everry limper is showing weakness by limping, you have a made hand and play it stong to win the pot.

Every bet you make should have a reason.

You may be doing the right thing, but have a think about why you're doing it. In case some hypothetical person was to ask you, you'd have an immedaite answer for them.


That's not going to cut it.

That's better. It is going to cut it as a "reason"

Bear in mind though, that sounds like you're playing to win a small pot.

I know your point Tank, and I agree that you should always have a reason to bet, I think I have just got in to playing pairs this way as second nature, perhaps that leads to complacency?  i dunno.  hence the reason for the question.

Complacency bad, Questions good.

My feeling....


If you want to win lots of small pots, stick to tournament play, you will win more there...

All you want in a cash game, to quote a famous guy from rounders : "your aim is to win 1 big pot per hour"

You dont need to pick up lots of little pots in a cash game, IMO

Why not?

Pick up lots of little pots and the biggees and you'll be better off

You can end up getting yourself into trouble playing it by raising preflop

I didn't say this was a good time to try and win the small pot, just that in general if I think I can pick up a small pot I will try to.

He says your aim is to win one BIG bet per hour, a reference to limit holdem i think.

The one big bet pre hour thing is a maxim I detest.

So often misundertood, and seems to promote mediocracy.

why do you detest it?

Thought you might ask that. see edit

Also...

Been running at 3BBs/hr for a couple of weeks, time to have a losing session, (which then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.)

Been sitting here at the $5/$10 table for 5 hours now, where's my $50 I'm entitled to?
or
Been sitting here at the $5/$10 table for 5 hours now, I am up $50, so not hungry for more.

I'm beating $2/$4 for $4/hr. my game must be perfect, and needs no working on whatsoever.

etc etc

dont talk to me about f****in nl cash im neva playing again, neva played a $1/2 game online so i sit down with $100 build it up to just under $300, i raise to $6 with ak flop is ace 7 6 rainbow. i bet the pot villan calls , next card 2, i bet the pot agin he goes all in i call he has 77 and rivers a 7!!!!

2 hands later im on the button with kk 4 limpers i rasie to £10 the villian from previous hand raises to $40 , i call flop comes 7 9 4 . he cheaks i bet the pot he goes all in i call he has aces!!!! ;grr; ;grr; ;grr; ;grr; ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated;

 ;goodvevil;

the way this muppet was playing he could have had any 2 cards last thing i put him on was aces , he had already stacked someone with 6 3 off suit calling a raise and a re-raise anyway rant ova

When did this become a bad beat thread

sorry mate just wanted a rant sorry for the hijack

He didn't really need the river if he had a set on the flop.

So not a bad beat Billy

wasnt a 7 on the flop tank he rivered a 7 , cant remember exactly what the flop was but there wasnt a 7 he rivered it

Truth be told I just saw the smileys and read the first line, from that I deduced it was a bad beat, a bad read by me. ::)

If im in position and 1 limp or less to me, I will raise. If some 1 limps and im on the button, i will raise almost any 2 and just use position to make it a profitable play psot flop, but thats a differnt story.

With small pairs, im happy to raise if im first in the pot and/or in position. If there has been 2-3 limps ill probably limp behind. In the higher stakes games, a semi-decent player is going to know u have a big hand if u limp preflop then all of a sudden want to play a big pot after the flop, you have nothing invested in the pot so techinally wouldnt be getting busy without a bog hand.
I like to raise in order to build a pot, this works best in position as you can win the pot when your opponent doesnt hit. Once you have built a pot preflop then hit your set, its a lot easier to get paid off for the maximum value.

I play exclusively 6 handed cash games so this may not work in 9-10 man tables where limping is a lot more acceptable

The level you play at makes a big difference to playing small pairs also.

at $1/$2 or below i think limping is always best as it when you hit the set the players are more likely to get stacked.

Your play must be more creative above this so mixing in some raises from late position when there are no limpers trying to use the value of your hand as it stands to make a few dollars is understandable.

The most important info is 'Small pairs play best in a multiway pot' so if it looks like thats what is going to happen then just limp along.

I had settled on min raising all PPs up to J's (more above) simply because every limper will call and those that were limping behind will still call, this is designed purely to build the pot a bit if you do hit and doesn't hurt too much when i miss.
Though i rarely play cash these days.

I agree. At lower levels limping is more common and you won't be put on a pock pair - and won't be put on a set if you hit. Hence, you can often clean up. At higher levels I reckon this play becomes a but more obvious and you have to mix it up more.

2 situations here for 3/6nlhe games

1. UTG raiser has $600 so do you, there are no other callers you are in late position with any pair of 55's or below, what size raise do you call?
2. Same as above but the raiser only has $200 this time?

1, no more than 5%.     2,no more than 10% of his stack,I wouldnt want him pot committed with a continuation bet on the flop then maybe a raise double his bet depending on the texture of the flop, if he checks the turn it a bet for all he has left regardless of whether I have the set. there are lots of things that must be happening to play this way ,no ace ,eyes running up and down the flop to name 2.     Its the usual thing IT ALL DEPENDS are you playing someone who is known to be creative or a rock and are the blinds likely to get tricky even a blind squirrel finds the odd acorn if the big blind makes a big raise you dont really want to be there.    Hey woodsey is there a definative right answer if so I would love to know.

I play at the $1/$2 level, and I try and vary my play with small pocket pairs.  Even the most unobservant players will notice if I only limp with a pair, but raise with AK, AQ or a high pair.  Sometimes you can line up a big pot with a raise from early position with a low pair, and then I can win a lot if I hit my set and they have a big pocket pair or if they hit their pair on the flop with AK or AQ, etc.  They may also think I'm making a standard continuation bet if there are no high cards on the board and not give my bets the respect they deserve.

Of course, I'm not going to be hitting my set that often, so the raise will increase my variance, but it also enables me to come out betting occasionally if I miss and take the pott anyway.

I think (will have to check) that small pockets are responsible for a lot of the money I make in these cash games.

I dont think its a good idea to call 5% of stacks with small pairs against good players, if you are just playing it for set value. You are just going to spew chips waiting for sets and when you finally hit one they wont be giving you much action anyways a good % of the time. Against some players that I know have Aces/kings and cant possibly fold it postflop, then anywhere up to around 9/10% of the stack is acceptable, against lags I'd prolly re-raise preflop (which you should be doing some of the time with any two cards as well) or play it postflop not specifically for set value. Its real easy money when you are playing at a table full of people "waiting for hands" to beat you, becase you just raise with most combos.. steal a lot of smallish pots per hour and then shut down if you get action.

Kinbo makes a good point about limping with pp's and raising with big hands being exploitable.. but its ok to be exploitable if people aren't good enough to exploit it, thats why limping along at the lower levels is going to reap a pretty huge reward, but the higher you go its not going to make you a lot of money (generally)

hardly bad beat lol what i can see is that the guy that won was in front the whole way in both hands.

the guy was in front 77 v ak in the first example. he then flops a set the river 7 is irrelevant.
then the 2nd is the old favourite overpair versus bigger overpair.

 nasty but they happen but not what i would discribe as bad beat

aah now its a changing.

he was very lucky then and your example has become a badbeat story.

50p please  :D

I figured it was a typo. I was just trying to save cambo half a pound.

geez a break guys first bad beat ive posted  8) after this will deff be the last...tank i played a few $25 stts the other night with u.. u must have had chat off...putting me out for 3rd with 10 9 off...oops another beat slipped in there

Yeah, I always turn the chat off.

What's yer name there?

puma13

In nl cash. I always limp with a small  pocket pair. As has been mentioned, the no set, no bet thinking tends to be used the most.
However, particularly in the low limits, players fall in love with their Ax or their 2 pictures. If you hit a set, you get paid off very well.

Also if the flop comes low, these same players makes their continuation bets with overcards. Your pair then becomes a favourite over these players who cant put them down when they haven't hit.

how do u find out if they have overcards and not an over pair?

Usually observing how they play. In nl cash at the low levels you often get to a river showdown. Rather than looking at what a player has relative to the board, I concentrate on what hole cards they had come into the hand with. Usually only takes 2/3 rounds before you know which players like their ace rag, or their picture cards.
I find that at the low levels, a lot of players want action, and don't take any notice of what you might have.

The other reason limping is preferable is so you can disguise your hand when you have AA and KK. If players know you limp in early position with small pairs and suit connectors you may pick up a raise or even re-raise with AA and KK pre - flop (if you have initially limped).

I never raise in seat 1 or 2 (this is asking to get busted by a speculative late poistion caller), , but limping in early position is a strong play as long as you never pass if raised, that is weak.

Basically, you can limp in any position as long as you limp with big hands aswell.

I also pass small pairs in SB or BB in a heads-up pot v late position raisor, call versus a big hand (UTG / seat 2 raise) for implied odds. There are not usually any implied odds calling with 66 v a button raise.

Small pairs are drawing hands, keep the pot small as poss until you hit. plus you want SB and BB in pot so they can hit 2 pair v your set.

I also would consider any pair less than QQ a SMALL PAIR in cash games, unless you hit a set with JJ you are going to lose some big pots committing your chips on low flops v sets and 2 pair etc.