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Title: I always find this odd. Post by: ifm on October 26, 2006, 09:54:17 AM Come across this quite a few times and i never understand it.
If you are calling no matter what comes on the board why not just go allin preflop?? PokerStars Game #6774257172: Tournament #34488531, $55.00+$5.00 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/10/26 - 04:45:02 (ET) Table '34488531 1' 10-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: ifmcf (2645 in chips) Seat 3: hats 21 (4513 in chips) Seat 4: prosyon (1102 in chips) Seat 5: jenni867 (1450 in chips) Seat 6: arsen.lupin (1305 in chips) Seat 7: Currian (1290 in chips) Seat 9: mcna (2695 in chips) jenni867: posts small blind 100 arsen.lupin: posts big blind 200 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to ifmcf [Ah Jh] Currian: folds mcna: folds ifmcf: raises 600 to 800 hats 21: calls 800 prosyon: folds jenni867: folds arsen.lupin: folds *** FLOP *** [Ac 3h 5h] ifmcf: bets 1000 hats 21: calls 1000 *** TURN *** [Ac 3h 5h] [Kh] ifmcf: bets 400 hats 21: calls 400 *** RIVER *** [Ac 3h 5h Kh] [Tc] ifmcf: bets 445 and is all-in hats 21: calls 445 *** SHOW DOWN *** ifmcf: shows [Ah Jh] (a flush, Ace high) hats 21: shows [Jc Jd] (a pair of Jacks) ifmcf collected 5590 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 5590 | Rake 0 Board [Ac 3h 5h Kh Tc] Seat 1: ifmcf showed [Ah Jh] and won (5590) with a flush, Ace high Seat 3: hats 21 showed [Jc Jd] and lost with a pair of Jacks Seat 4: prosyon (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: jenni867 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: arsen.lupin (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 7: Currian folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: mcna folded before Flop (didn't Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: boldie on October 26, 2006, 10:39:21 AM yeah i see this quite a bit with people who play tens and jacks. it's poor play really. he should have reraised you pre-flop or gotten out as soon as you bet the ace. (or, even a reraise representing the ace would be better play there).
he is always going to lose everything on this hand the way he plays it. Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: tantrum on October 26, 2006, 11:34:30 AM I love those players, they just can't fold a pair.... i always thought that those are mistakes or sth, but those people are real, they will not fold a pocket pair, regardless of the flop.
Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: boldie on October 26, 2006, 11:38:48 AM I love those players, they just can't fold a pair.... i always thought that those are mistakes or sth, but those people are real, they will not fold a pocket pair, regardless of the flop. yep...There is a certain player in my friday night tourney that does this..pocket threes is raised preflop and then every street will be called. Lovely stuff. Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: Royal Flush on October 26, 2006, 02:16:02 PM (or, even a reraise representing the ace would be better play there). I would love to hear that explained! IFM bets 1k, with 850 back, how is raising a good play with JJ> Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: boldie on October 26, 2006, 02:40:53 PM (or, even a reraise representing the ace would be better play there). I would love to hear that explained! IFM bets 1k, with 850 back, how is raising a good play with JJ> I'm not saying it will be brilliant play with JJ but if you reraise you're not playing it like you have JJ, you are playing it like you have the best Ace. (and Lord knows I have seen people fold for that extra 850). Like I said...it's better then flatcalling all the way to the river (but I already said the guy should have folded here). Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: Royal Flush on October 26, 2006, 02:48:53 PM (or, even a reraise representing the ace would be better play there). I would love to hear that explained! IFM bets 1k, with 850 back, how is raising a good play with JJ> I'm not saying it will be brilliant play with JJ but if you reraise you're not playing it like you have JJ, you are playing it like you have the best Ace. (and Lord knows I have seen people fold for that extra 850). Like I said...it's better then flatcalling all the way to the river (but I already said the guy should have folded here). LOL Do you really think some folds better than JJ for 850 here? If you decide you want to play this hand past the flop then calling IS the best play, you want to let IFM bluff. Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: boldie on October 26, 2006, 03:00:42 PM (or, even a reraise representing the ace would be better play there). I would love to hear that explained! IFM bets 1k, with 850 back, how is raising a good play with JJ> I'm not saying it will be brilliant play with JJ but if you reraise you're not playing it like you have JJ, you are playing it like you have the best Ace. (and Lord knows I have seen people fold for that extra 850). Like I said...it's better then flatcalling all the way to the river (but I already said the guy should have folded here). LOL Do you really think some folds better than JJ for 850 here? If you decide you want to play this hand past the flop then calling IS the best play, you want to let IFM bluff. surely deciding that you want to play this hand past the flop is the worst thing you can do with JJ ? Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: Royal Flush on October 26, 2006, 03:09:27 PM (or, even a reraise representing the ace would be better play there). I would love to hear that explained! IFM bets 1k, with 850 back, how is raising a good play with JJ> I'm not saying it will be brilliant play with JJ but if you reraise you're not playing it like you have JJ, you are playing it like you have the best Ace. (and Lord knows I have seen people fold for that extra 850). Like I said...it's better then flatcalling all the way to the river (but I already said the guy should have folded here). LOL Do you really think some folds better than JJ for 850 here? If you decide you want to play this hand past the flop then calling IS the best play, you want to let IFM bluff. surely deciding that you want to play this hand past the flop is the worst thing you can do with JJ ? My argument is that once you have decided to take this hand to the end then calling is optimum Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: SupaMonkey on October 26, 2006, 03:19:14 PM I agree with flushy but i would have moved in preflop.
Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: ifm on October 27, 2006, 03:53:28 AM I have called a preflop bet with (e.g.) JJ and a flop bet with overcards myself, no probs you want them to slow down and jam the turn or even river BUT i would never call pre, flop, turn AND river because i KNOW i must be beaten 99 out of 100!!!!!!!!!!!
This is not the exact example i could have used because i halved the turn bet to look weak and the river call is auto considering pot size but the general principal is there, if you are calling regardless why not push preflop??? Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: kinboshi on November 03, 2006, 09:24:53 AM Fold JJ preflop. They're poison.
Title: Re: I always find this odd. Post by: Longy on November 03, 2006, 04:07:35 PM This really is simple shove with jacks preflop, there is no way you are behind to IFM's range here. Probably have some fold equity here as well.
IFM do you call if he shoves? I think its marginal given you have no specific read. |