blonde poker forum

Hello, spoke to the cardroom manager at walsall tuesday night just after we chopped the money 3 ways in the 50 freezeout.
He said as of 5th April they will no longer allow deals (or as i said the game ending prematurely).
I can't remember if he was saying this was a grosvenor/grosvenor walsall or a national thing.
Anyone else hear about this?
Couple of things that come to my mind:-

Deals will always be done regardless

If they want them to finish then starting earlier should be considered (but please not bigger blind structure)

Who can stop the last x amount of players chopping and walking out? (can't withhold cash can they?)

Personally i see nothing wrong in deals if they suit me ;D
As with Tuesday, there was approx 45 minutes left till a chipcount, three left with player A 160k+ player B 80kish and me with 65kish.
Basically chopped it with me taking an extra 300 off the top prize (great deal i thought).
I see nothing wrong in this at all, they put the pressure on with the chipcount 45mins away!!!!
Apparently they will force the chipcount and all games played to a finish.

Any thoughts?
ian

If the players want to deal we will deal. If you are insisting on playing to a chip count you may find players having tricky decisions to make on every hand. With 10 minutes to go to a chip count in blackpool last year I suggested a split to the remaining five players. When the offer was declined by one player I told the other players that with 10 minutes to go I would be taking my full 2 minutes on every hand and only paying one more set of blinds. Sure this was angle shooting but I didn't do it on the sly, I told them exactly what I was doing and why. In the last 10 minutes and last 5 hands 2 players decided to commit suicide and get themselves knocked out (obviously it was my fault for stalling).
ariston

hehehe, in my first final table i didn't understand what the chipcount meant!!!
I assumed they just placed you according to chips and got that specific placing amount......DOH!!
I decided to 'go for it' in the last 5 minutes cuz i thought 'well i'm guaranteed 100 anyway, may as well try to go for the win'.
Needless to say i managed to get myself knocked out to some VERY strange looks, found out shortly after i cost myself around 350!!!!!
You live and learn huh?
ian

I simply don't understand this "you are prohibited from dealing" thing.

Would somone from Walsall - or even our blonde-ite in the know at Walsall, Dani Versace - care to comment or enlighten us?

ifm. In the same game I mentioned above that is exactly what happened. One of the players (not a newbie either) didn't understand the chip count rule and thought he was getting last place anyway. He proceeded to go allin with junk and took a huge pot. Next hand he did it again and ended up getting a huge slice of the pie. He admitted to me afterwards his mistake when I was admiring his kahoonas for gambling so much. I thought he had just decided to go for it where as in effect he had just cocked up,
ariston

"admiring his kahoonas".

Cue another English lesson from Karabiner, methinks.....

Can anyone give me the precise meaning of "kahoonas". Are they like coconuts?

Same size as coconuts methinks. The hand he pushed allin with was 68os to crack mallu's aces if I remember correctly.It was a 3 way pot with the other player holding A8 on the button.
ariston

tikay during the irish open last weekend when i asked if they did a deal you said that thomas stopped them
how did he stop them if they had gotten up and gone to the bathroom what would he have done?

Sounds to me as though the casino is forgetting whose money we are playing for.

If they were to add money, then they  MAY have a case of sorts,
but with the players supplying all of the prize fund, a no-dealing dictat seems completely unreasonable to me.

P.S. Kahoonas seems to be the anglicised vernacular form of the Spanish 'cohones',
which is where the bull generally tries to stick his horns in those brave matador chaps !

 ;D 

they cant stop deals being done and after they are whats to stop the players going all in every hand untill its over?? or am I missing the point here?

At the risk of being controversial, there are those of us who don't like deals and who resent the pressure put on us at final tables when we decline a deal.

When you are in a situation when remaining players are evenly matched in both chips and ability I understand those players wanting to even out the prize money a bit but I dont agree with chopping it up and stopping playing 4 or 5 handed. Believe it or not some of us trive on being involved in short handed final table action. Climbing the money ladder, making well timed stands and the all out bluffing and re-bluffing in heads up are a few of the best parts of the game.

how do deals in TV tables work? what would happen if the final 9 at thw WSOP decided to take an even 9 way split? I'm sure Binions, ESPN and the rest would be pissed then.

Fair point Adam.
I think if a deal is done there should still be play to a finish to get a winner. (i.e. - 30K left in the prize pool, 2 players take 12.5k each and play for the remaining 5K) - i don't like resolving a comp by way of chip count.

i agree that short handed play is a great part of the game and shouldn't be avoided.

I wonder if they are protecting themselves for the 100/15000 GTD event there. If less than 150 enter then the casino will be adding money?

Well this is getting confusing, but let's remember where the debate began.

"Grosvenor at Walsall have banned deals".

I think the thrust if the issue is:

Do they have the right - not to say ability - to ban deals?

Did they really say, or mean, that?

It's not a case of whether deals are good or bad, which seems to me to be a different issue.

Where are you Dani?

i too think that deals ruin the point of a comp to produce a winner but when there is alot of money involved and the blinds are so high that it could mean solving the event on a coin flip then i think the players have the right to do with the money as they see fit

I assume (no cliches please) that this is an April Fools?
What nonesense.

Whilst I am moaning, why do people keep posting stuff in the Live Updates Forum instead of this? I mean I know they are "updated" the forum, and it is "Live" but......

Ahhh that explains everything.

Thank you for those sane words.

 :-[

Ahhh that explains everything.

Thank you for those sane words.

 :-[

i spoke with the main man at walsall and he told me that no deals has come about because of a gaming board directive, what the casino is saying is that it has to pay out to its published prize structure, some players will still do deals but it will be away from the cardroom, the casino will take no part in deals, this will soon happen in all grasvenor cardrooms so im told, and other comanys will have to follow

Thanks Dani, that makes a lot more sense now.

I know nothing about Gaming Board directives, but we have to assume Grosvenor do.

But this does NOT amount to banning deals. What Grosvenor, it seems to me, are saying, is "we will only pay out on the published prize structure". That is DIFFERENT to banning deals. The deals will continue, but the players will have to sort the money out between themselves. So deals are NOT banned, but Grosvenor will not recognize them.

Thats OK.

But just remember, when you agree a deal with Matey Boy, make sure there are no misunderstandings, because "after the event" The Casino cannot intervene if Matey Boy refuses to honour the deal. So be careful who you "deal" with. I can guarantee this will cause some probs, some "no, I never agreed to that", or "I'll pay you next week" nonsense.

Thanks for enlightening us Dani, & good luck with the 100 Freezeout Jobbie.

Good news - i might be abkle to shed some light on this. Speaking to the supervisors at Walsall tonight they explained that it is an instruction they have been given from the good old gaming board. The gaming board say there should be no deals in any comp. Lets be honest it won't stop deals being done but the casino itself will no longer get involved in them. I remember playing at the Rainbow many moons ago. They wouldn't let you do deals & only paid out the listed prize money & then we split it the way we wanted. 

Good stuff BigD, we can safely put this to bed now. But beware the warning in my previous post guys!

And welcome to the blonde Forum BigD. Interact, & enjoy!

i know in blackpool you carnt do deals, you have to sit on your cards to do the deal and then throw ur chips in to see who places what on the standings,

we recently did this in the 300 event, the guy who won actually came 5th lol,

Hate to be doing a pedantic (new verb) but nobody said they were banning deals, just not allowing you to agree a deal, split the dosh and go home.
They say you must play to the chipcount (very rarely over before) but doesn't this amount to the same thing???
is not a chipcount a deal?
How can they say we pay the structure, no deals then do a chipcount???
Makes little sense to me.
ian

Well I am sure the second sentence of your opening post said "they are banning deals".......

Anyway, makes no sense to me either! But if it's a Gaming Board directive, who are we to argue?

As to the point made above by S Wood about Blackpool, that does not surprise me one iota. The Blackpool boys seem to play much better when they don't look at their cards. No thinking required, see?

Erm, nope.

I like the intercasino idea though, could be fun.
Maybe Walsall could spank the asses of the winners?
ian

Am I misunderstanding this? What's the difference between "banning deals" & "not allowing them"? I am confused!

But Walsall spank the asses of the winners? Well the winners WILL be Notts, that's a given. And I think Walsall may give Notts a good game. Proper players in Walsall & Notts, see. Now let's wait for dear old Ariston to come on huffing & puffing.......

No need to huff and puff Tikay, the challenge has been layed down so its now just up to you to bring it on. You have already tried nicking Burnley for the notts team, what next bunging the nuggett to say he originally hails from your way? 
ariston

The Nugget? You are getting confused Russ. You want him, as well as Burnley John, to play for Blackpool? How many more of our players you gonna try & steal? You'll be telling us next that Ali Mallu is one of yours.

Let me get this right the Notts team will be- Nugget, "burnley"john,ali mallu, howard plant, isabelle mercier (canada is 3 miles sw of nottingham town centre apparantley),ram vaswani, bengt and gus hansen. No wonder thewy is only a 50/50 shot. The blackpool team is me and simon nowab (why have you not had him as well?) the valet from the casino,random waitress and team tetlow. Think we could still take you  ;)
ariston

Now you are getting the idea Russ. Don't forget El Blondie - he is under consideration, too.

Was it greg who originally set the challenge? Why not start a thread on it and set some rules up for the match. It has to be done this we cannot have you guys bottling out after all the barracking and banter. Yes the Walsall lot should be allowed to played the winners (straight up the M6 guys juction 32 M55). We are going to have to get teams agreed before the match (no last minute surprises Tikay!!!!).
ariston

Good Idea Russ.

Greg - get it sorted please!

when you guys finally work out which is the best casino is englandshire you better head up to scotland to take on the best players in the world

i thought ali was one of the salford lot? lol

like myself ;)

The problem at Walsall lies in the pay-out structure. It's so ridiculously top heavy that people know that 1 piece of luck will mean they go home with peanuts, even if they place well. What's the answer? They make a deal to assure they get something decent for their efforts.

Stopping deals won't change much. It may mean the player's 'word' is of more significance, but deals will still happen.

What needs to be examined is the pay-out structure. This is what urges most people to make deals. Would a more progressive increase be more appropriate? Often, the guy who has come 2nd has played just as well, if not better, than the guy in 1st, yet gets a hell of a lot more.

I'm sure many will disagree, but that's my view anyhow.

They have recently changed the payout structure after many complaints, the next thing is trying to get them to change the amount of starting chips.
Ian

Really? How has it changed. Last time I went down 10th - 5th got practically the same.

Hi Guys.

Are you all nicking my best ideas????????

I've been putting some serious thought into an intercasino challenge whilst sat here nursing my fractured foot.

I do believe Luton and Reading had one a few years ago now. Someone should ask Carmel. Also, as for Ali Mallu being a Salford player??????????????????? I've been in Blackpool for 10 years and he has been playing there that long at least. Salford opened 5 years or so ago. No contest he is a Blackpool boy. Altho I think he is a regular everywhere.

to go back to the original thread tho. No deals is not the rule. All competitions must be played to a conclusion and the prize structure adhered to. A chip count is not a "Deal" as it is specified in the rules as the conclusion to a game if it hasn't finished by a certain time.

Anyhow thats just my ha'penny worth.

Yogi

lol so which card room do i play for then ;) i'm a northerner

Went to Blackpool for the first time in a few weeks today to be told when 4handed that deals where not allowed (not within earshot anyway). The four of us all went for a cigarette and when we came back we all went alin amazingly- the remaining players did it again on the next 2 hands as well. Then we retired to another area of the casino to chop it ourselves. Very silly rule and going to be very difficult to uphold. As for the intercasino challenge I was informed yesterday that there wouldnt be a problem with chips and dealers if it is held on either Monday or Wednesday afternoon (there are no finals on those days). I look forward to playing against some of my best pals representing Notts! (aparantley Womble once had a pee and a sandwich from the services near Nottingham so he was informed yesterday at the Vic that he is now a Notts player  ;D).

and who told you that Russ? chips n dealers i mean? nothin been mentioned to me lol oh well more overtime i guess lol


anyway regardin deals, the way we been doin it here in blackpool is that deals can no longer be discussed at the table, thus stopping play in the final, however should the players decide to chop it themselves away from the table then juts whack everything all in then its fine as far as i know (well thats how i beeen doin it for the last 2 weeks lol). its just the good old GB stompin there authority and we need to keep em happy lol