blonde poker forum

I would post the hand history but I did'nt have it saved from Blue Sq

Late position in a cash game 0.25 / 0.50

Me $45

opponent $67

I'm in late position with 3 limpers I have  9c Tc and i pop it up to $2.50

BB calls  and everyone else folds

The info i have on the BB is he is tight is but has won a few pots with rags when the flop has been kind to him.

my guess is he has a big pocket pair.

Flop  Qc 8c 9h

Oppo leads out for $2 in to a $6.75 pot


We are ahead here against aces or Kings and AQ QJ ect.

What should we do?

Make it a 10r.

Yep, raise it up and $10 sounds like a good amount.  Might even be tempted to put a little more in.

yep..reraise for me.

The problem with getting over exited with these types of hands is that the all money usually only goes in on the flop when we are up against a big hand or a big draw.  The big hand in this case being a set and the big draw perhaps AcKc.  He could also conceivably have JTsuited.

It is quite a weak bet, so you will probably be able to take it down with a pot sized raise.

If he calls I would tend to put him on a draw or AQ and decide what to do depending on the turn and if he checks or bets.

If he reraises, what I do depends on how much.

You say in your post above that you are ahead against aces kings AQ and QJ but you are not. You are behind to the above hands and you will still have to outdraw them to win the pot.

You say your opponent has a big pair - if that is the case you will find that although you have a big drawing hand that you are only 55-45% favourite to win the pot.

so true...funny how it seems

When he says ahead - I guess he means in terms of being favourite to win the hand (seeing both the turn and flop). 

Which is why you want to make the raise to see where you are and to give him the decision.


59% favourite against  Kd Kh

59% favourite against Ac Kc

54% favourite against  Ac Ad

53% favourite against Kc Jc.


Under 40% to win if he's got  Jd Td  (with a 7% chance that it'll be split)

yes - but then what happens when the turn comes a blank (or even worse it pairs the board with a Q or an 8) and he comes out firing again?

(i'm not offering any views on the hand because i'm not a cash game player - i'm asking questions though because i'd be interested to see how the answers would differ from tournament strategy)

in tourney play I reraise aswell. in cash games however people tend to be more inclined to fold as they see the dosh going on the table.

I always re-raise these hands on the flop, as I would do two pair, a set or the made straight. By taking control of the pot, you give yourself more chance to win if you don't hit.

I would reraise to take control of the pot and hopefully if i miss on the turn i can then take a free card on the river - but often i read that cash game strategy would be to get the money in the middle as quick as possible as you are favourite to win the hand, which i wouldnt do in a tourney.

I'd be tempted to bet it hard - but that's how I tend to play cash games (I'd play it the same way with a set as I would with the hand we've got here).  If you're up against JT or a set then it's unlucky.

If you're up against AQ, and the turn's a blank, you're now only 40% to win the hand.  Hell of a decision for you to make if he comes out betting on the turn, but at least you've got position on him.
 

I don't like taking the free card on the turn in these situations, any decent player will read you for a drawing hand if you check the turn then bet the river if you've missed.

I'm generally in agreement with that. 

An interesting hand, and it'd be interesting to work out the EV for different ways of playing the hand.

Ok we are all aggreed that we are raising, I popped it up to $12.


He almost times out and then he is all in.

what now?

BTW when I said we are ahead I did mean favourite to win the hand.

But in a tournament if i've missed i'm done with the hand anyway on the river - i'm not calling with at best 2nd pair no kicker to any size bet and i've saved myself chips to use later in the tournament.

If you bet the turn and miss on the river and your opponent checks do you still fire on the river or check it down?

Matt, I don't play cash either but i would be pounding the pot on the turn here unless he pots it on the turn. By pounding the turn i get many better hands to fold.

yeah I'd agree. I keep betting in a cash game if the turn misses as otherwise every knows what you're upto.

You're getting slightly worse than 2-1 on the pot now. At worst you have 12 outs (45%) so i would call.

yeah it's a fair call...can everyone feel the 50p dropping?

It might not be a bad beat.

against  Qs Qh or  Jc Th you are nearly a 2-1 dog (those being the worst case senarios). In a tournament depending on what stage the tourney was at then there would be a case for laying it down - but chances are i call.

no bad beats here, I'm just after opinions

it's a good call Billy. the lay down would be fair enough aswell BTW but the call is the right play to make IMO.

I would call here in a cash game, no problem.  Not worried about getting my money in.  Going to be a marginal dog  worst case.  Would have raised it to more than $12 though on the flop though.

Oops, i forgot about the J-10, sorry. Ok, so you might only have 8 outs to win.

I wouldn't call here in a tourney but i think it is +EV to call here in a cash game.

And if you hit one of the 8 on the turn you have to pray one of the other 7 doesnt appear on the river!! :D :D

which is probably what happened knowing the sick and twisted mind that is "online poker" ;)

Much to my dismay he had Queens in the hole, So he played it well, Truth be told his almost time out then push move was a concern to me but at worst i am a slight dog.

I shiped it in and got no help, the best hand won.

Thanks for the input guys.

The other benefit of playing the flop hard here, is if you do it consistently your going to be harder to play against.

I'd raise it up more than pot-sized with your hand, a set, JT, and also with two pairs.  They're going to need a strong hand to call (or indeed raise you), and even then you are not dead and buried.

I'd guess that a substantial raise is a +EV play.  But I might be wrong.

I think you played it well as did he, im trying to get my cash in on this flop. So re0raise and call the push seems fine.

If your flop raise gets called here betting a blank on the turn would be really bad. You are likely to be a favourite on the flop which is why raising is good. On the turn everything will change. There's no point trying to beat the villain over the head with a hammer on a draw if he won't fold Q-4 so taking a free card would be fine. The flop raise will still pay off in the long run.

As I said in my response, I've played these hands about a thousand times now and if all the money goes in on the flop you are unlikely to be a favourite.

He played it well though and his weak bet really gave you no option but to raise the flop and then you are pot commited.

It wasnt a big mistake anyway so no huge leaks discovered.

One thing though about these type of hands.  They are almost impossible to play perfectly.  If his actual hand was face up you would obviously just call to see if you would hit.  However, if his hand was AQ etc, you would like to get all the money in on the flop, but your opponent is unlikely to do this.  If he just calls a standard raise, you end up as the underdog on the turn if you don't hit.

you played it well from start to end Billy.