blonde poker forum

Full Tilt turbo $55 sng 6 bodys left I am middle chip position two off the button with A7o with 8 big blinds standard push?

nope..nothing standard about it in a turbo STT.

whats the minimum Ace/hand you push here boldie or are you on the wind-up :-/

No I'm not, sorry mate...didn't mean to sound snotty.

8x the BB in a turbo STT there's not yet a need to push with 6 left. It would depend on how many chips the others have, how the table has been playing and how you have been playing. If you have been the rock of all ages then you could push with A7 but A7 is a very marginal hand. I might push with something like A10 + sooted, but I probably even wouldn't do that depending on how the table was playing and how many chips were left with the other guys.
I am more then happy with dropping to 5BB's in a turbo STT before I start to feel like I'm in trouble. the old 10x BB rule goes much more for MTT's than turbo STT's IMO.

The problem with this kind of play is that you are giving your opponents every chance to play perfectly.  There isn't much prospect of getting called by a worse hand and a reasonable chance (about a 1/3 of the time) of getting called by a better hand.  Compare with pushing with 56 suited - there's only a 15% chance of getting called by an overpair, plenty of hands that should call will fold and you have a chance against the overcards that do call.

No not at all thanks for the reply! I know to some people this would like an easy decision just wasn't sure with this hand.

I am always looking to improve my sng game been making a lot of adjustments over the last few months only 4 months ago I was pushing allin utg with A4 8 handed with 10bbs thinking I was the right thing. I started off just playing MTTs and took the 10bb rule to SNG fortunately I was running well in SNGs at the time and never suspected I was doing the wrong thing.

So you would push with A7 o/s in an MTT if you fell below 10bb?

Nothing wrong with the push at all. In fact in a turbo stt you are basically playing bingo and with 8bb I would rather push with A7 than call with AT.

Any unopened pot, get em in first and keep firing :)

Are you bluffing or value betting?

I don't understand nthe first comment "You are basically playing bingo"..and I don't agree with it. Turbo STT's require a different strat than normal ones but that's all. There's a decent amount of play in a turbo STT, sure you won't see as many hands per level as you would in a normal STT but it's definetly not bingo.
I woudl also rather push with A7 then call with A10 but then again I'd rather push with AJ then call with AQ.

Any unopened pot getting them in first and keep firing isn't a bluff or a value bet. It's playing bingo and there's no need for it with 8x the BB IMO.

It depends on the structure and as I dont play at Full Tilt, I can't really comment. My suggestion is just that with 4 players already eliminated and only playing 8 (CURRENT) bbs (when they go up in how many hands 1 .. 2 .. 3 is it now 4bb?) then you may not get a chance to wait for a premium and collecting a free round is crucial. A7 is an above average holding, my assumption of 'mp' here is utg+1, meaning you have 4 players to get through. You have no info and can maker stronger hands than yours pass. If you are behind and walk into a hand that isnt AA, then you can still outdraw one time in three and by firing first you have an additional way to win teh pot.

My other consideration is that of your opponents who are likely to be prepared to gamble with weak holdings. This is teh reason for me calling turbos 'bingo'.

Why would anyone who wants to play poker rather than roulette, enter one of these? In my experience, less chips, less time to make decisions and less chance to manouvre or play poker. All in would seem to be the norm for many one trick ponies. Surely you must all agree that deep stacks and low blinds give you an edge if you are not a bingo player?

These 2 comments don't make sense.  If there is any chance that you will be called by a worse hand I can't see that it's likely a better hand will fold.  If this was a cash game, the push would be -ev, so it's clearly wrong in a stt.

I agree that there is limited skill in these, but these decisions are where the limited skill lies.

About 1/3 of the time we will be called as a big dog with this hand.  When we aren't we haven't significantly improved our chances of winning.

Compare with my example of pushing with 56 suited, we have less chance of being badly dominated and more chance of making a better hand fold.

You are taking my pointys out of context. I was saying above that I would rather push with A7 than call with AT that is what teh first point refers to.

The second issue is that players in the turbo games (again from a very small sample of limited experience in these) are more likely to gamble with hands like KQ KJ QJ, all of which we are ahead of with A7.

I'm not advocating that it is right and I don't like the format of those games but how long can you be blinded away and wait for a premium hjand until it is an autocall by your opponents? When you do find one, you can and will still be outdrawn.

That is also the reason that 65 pushes are also not as good here. If they pass, then it doesn't matter what cards they held, if they call, you are a dog against almost any hand (incl those I mentioned above) and with weaker players again you could even be dominated by A6s or A5s.

I'm not saying there is a right answer here and I repeat that I see no reason to play a game of more chance and reduce my edge.

One off the button or OTB yes not two off the button

I don't play these but it seems that what is being said is that if you have less than 5BBs, don't look at your cards and push into the first unopened pot. Right?

lol not really but 5BB's ina  turbo STT is like 10BB ina  normal MTT IMO..it's pretty dangerous territory.

I don't think a 65 push is a particularly good play either in this position, but at least you know what you are doing - semi-bluffing.  Obviously you are a dog to anything that calls, but usually not a big dog and undeniably a lot of hands that should call will fold, quite often a5/a6, I'm pretty certain 85 folds.  

If an A7 push does get called by a weaker hand, your edge is unlikely to be very large, with big cards being near to a coin flip and weaker aces sucking out or splitting the pot a fair amount.

I really do agree with your commments about the luck element in turbos, but don't think that the answer is to gamble when any opportunity presents itself.

yeah I'd agree with this. If you push I would much rather push with 2 live cards and a fair few outs (sooted connectors) than with something like A7 which could easily be dominated by any calling hand.

 i cant see how having 5BBs in a game where the blinds go up twice as fast is like having 10bbs in a normal game .

 surely the opposite is true ?

I think you are right here.

anyway turbos are for gamblers, IMO. 

not the way most turbo STT's play. A lot of people will freak out when they are down to ten times the BB. you'll find that if you don't join them in their "less then ten times the BB, so auto all-in" game you'll be in the money quite a bit.

In the money, but likely to finish bottom of the money. With the fee charged, your profit is small and you don't need many non-cashes to be losing.

A std 9/10 seater pays 50%-30%-20%. I used to try to get as many cashes as possible, but my results indicate that less cashes and more wins shows a healthier ROI. I guess its horses for courses as I know other players who are 60% in the money which dwarfs my stats.