blonde poker forum

ive been having an ongoing debate with a pal as to who we consider the most naturally gifted snooker player since the modern game evolved,1973 park drive sponsored world championship being our starting point. i have no doubt whatsoever that alex higgins stands head and shoulders,figuritively speaking,aabove any who care to lay claim to this title. my pal insists jimmy white has no equal and im delussional(this is true in many areas) . any blondes care to share tier opinions

got to be the late great Bill Werbenuik, hugely talented but only after 16 pints of lager!



seriously though, I'd take Higgins over White but O'Sullivan as a natural talent over both. Interestingly all are hugely flawed people (possibly not White) who battle personal demons and thus are hugely watchable as a result

Best of best, boring but deadly....Hendry and in the early 80s Steve Davis

Alex Higgins has been my favourite snooker player ever, undoubtely the most gifted player ever, had more talent in his little finger than anyone else, such a shame that he didnt use it all, but what an entertainer aswel, Jimmy White was fantastic and probably in the same mould as Higgins, no one possesses the same cue power as White, you have to mention Ronnie as he is another class, again, doesnt fufil his potential, the best snooker player ever has to be hendry or davis, both true professionals who play and have played at the top standard for years, Steve Davis is probably playing better than he was in the 80s, but the competition is so much harder and scoring seems to be easier.

Basically though i agree with you that Higgins is the most naturally gifted, followed by Ronnie then Jimmy White

In reply to above post Jimmy is nearly as bad as Higgins was,
Jed

Hi

 Your mate has a great claim jimmy white & ronnie o are so naturally gifted
but they both have a flawless technique, higgins didn't apart from keeping
his head still on the shot (helps a bit ;D) his body twitching cue action grip
there is no way the man is anywhere near text book.

Having the great pleasure of watching close up and even better still playing
all these cue kings (well picking balls out of pockets for em lol) alex gets my
vote as the most gifted and most unorthodox.

     Neves.

I think you could take any top 16 player from today, stick them in one of the 1970s world championships and they'd be favourite to win - players today are generally much better than in the old days (when century breaks were rarer than today). There is a similar progression in golf/tennis, but that has been helped by advances in the technology (better clubs/racquets and balls) and fitter players whereas snooker is pretty much the same now as it was back then - the greater number of hours they spend practicing has helped them become better.

Of course, when discussing naturally gifted players you really mean 'if they never practiced'. Even taking this into account, O'Sullivan now would have destroyed Higgins at the peak of his powers.

For me the 'best' ever has to be Hendry. Despite not being a fan of Ronnie's he is IMO the most gifted player there's been. He makes the game look easier than anyone ever has.

One of the most entertaining and whacky (in the best sense) was Cliff Wilson who could 'shoot the lights out' and always tried to avoid making a century. Rather than striving to win, he seemed to be more interested in expressing himself on the table.

Best we never got to see? That title, in the opinion of Jimmy White, goes to Patsy Hoolihan from Deptford. Follow link to a good read from the Observer Sport Monthly.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,708304,00.html

For me Hendry was different gravy, the flair players are always viewed as being better than they really are , in truth these players can only win a frame one way. Jimmy White would have won at least 5 world titles if he had a safety game....but he didnt have one, so how can he be the greatest ever player?

Hendry and Davis had it all.

Steven Henry is clearly head and shoulders above everyone, his record speaks for itself, after him has got to be Steve Davies. Both fantastically talented and gifted and both with a fantastic temparement. (also very good poker players)

If the question is 'most naturally gifted', it has to be O'Sullivan - left handed or right handed says it all really.
'Best player' is a different question entirely.

definately what i think people are getting mixed up with, Higgins hasnt won nowhere near as much as Hendry, but thats because he was such a loose cannon, winning 2 world titles 10 years apart is a pretty good record to have imo

I do see what you mean, but how can someone be naturally gifted if he can only do 50% of the required skills to be the best?

The best naturally gifted snooker players are the ones that have all the skill sets and Hendry and DaviS had everything.

Why do fans always use potting skills as a sign of being naturally gifted and ignore other aspects? if you have a great snooker brain and can play tactical snooker that forces your opponents into mistakes it is called dour, if you pot balls but cant play good snooker it is called talent. Why?

                                                             wow id forgotton cliff wilson,what atalent,such flair. thnx for the reminder

Cliff Wilson, brilliant!!!

I have a friend who knew Cliff Wilson socially and went to see the great man play an exhibition match somewhere in the 80's(might have been Preston) my friend got good seats near the front and halfway through the 1st frame Wilson was on a break in the 30's and eyeing up a black or a pink into the middle. When looking at the potting angle of the pink he caught sight of my friend in the crowd and mid break stood up and said' Hello mate, when ive polished him off do you fancy a few pints in the bar'

My friend was a little taken a back but said 'yes, that would be great' to which Cliff replied' Great, If I remember its your round' He then caried on and made an 80 break which broke down when he tried to treble the brown into the middle bag.


We sometimes play Cliff Wilson 'every shot is a pot' rules in the pub.

Terry griffiths for me. The only man who could address the ball, stop and chalk his cue before addressing the ball again 5 consecutive times.

On the break off too. A welsh legend.

Just behind him is ronny for raw talent and hendry as the best complete snooker player there's been.

nice story bobby...cheers!

I was fortunate enough to play some of the legends in my amateur snooker career and would add the following to the thread;

most gifted after 6 pints
1....Alex Higgins
2....Cliff Wilson
3....Jackie Rae

most gifted

1...Stephen Hendry
2...Steve Davies
3...Ray Reardon

you can then throw in the O'Sullivans and Whites and although you cannot dispute their "natural talent" the debate is founded on natural gift

What about most dominant in a season? was it 2001 or 2002 that Mark Williams was an absolutely different class to even the likes of ronnie and hendry, shame that he had some kids and settled down in to a more family based life, im not saying the best ever but i reckon he'd have to be talked about when discussing these things

Jackie Rae one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet on or off the table, he always had a kind word for everyone even the unkind people
and a great trickshot artist.

   Neves.

Good point Jed, Williams was superb that season and I really thought he was going to go on and dominate for years.

The late great Bill Werbenuik. A good friend of mine for many years.

RIP

Great pic Red i watched him skin Alex Higgins at myth rummy one night in
leeds many moons ago, a sad loss to the game a real character.

               Neves.

I see another of the 'snooker greats' has just embarrassed himself and the sport.

Posted on the sports board Phil, The bloke is clearly a few sweets short of a pick and mix.

His adulation and respect should be severely dented following this episode, he has let the paying public and his supporters down once too often i fear.

100% correct, the guy shpuld not have one fan left after proving he doesnt care one jot about them.

marks a very good mate,he was and still is imho a great player he just needs to focus coz he has got so,so,so much bottle he never gives in the dirty dog lol big ear(thats sprog that is,, mark)he will have a great 2007 i predict hes eased of the poker a bit (late nights)great golfer too,hes playing a lot of football at the moment,,,,hendrys the best golfer mind off 3 and it should be scratch.we all  played at glen eagles me mark hendry and bobby george (viv williams lmao)great time real good belly laugh. these guys are down to earth you know.

Ronnie won't lose fans through this. Most like his quirkyness and the colour and brilliance he brings to the game.

I can't imagine many 'fans' REALLY believe that their sports heroes care about them.

the tolerance of the great british public can only be stretched so far, While Ronnies die hard fans will stick by him, there will be plenty more hoping that he gets a good stuffing every time he plays a match.

I think he showed a complete lack of class and showed no respect to either his opponent or the game of snooker.

He has a fantastic talent and doesnt have to worry about paying his gas bill or his council tax ..... If he has that little repect for the game that gave him the lifestyle he has, he should perhaps jack it in and and join the long list of gifted sports stars that chucked it all away.

One name that I feel deserves a mention in this thread is John Pullman.

He was a truly great player and dominated the game for a few years.

He was also a well known "bon vivant" and his game suffered as a result, but one year(I forget exactly) when well past his best he went on the wagon for six months and came very close to winning the world championship losing narrowly in the semi-finals. He was a great cueist and tremendously entertaining company.

Thanks for mentioning Pullman. Brings back memories.

Back to Ronnie. I really don't think he's ever given a flying **** for what anyone thinks of him (and for the most part I don't blame him). He just goes out there and works his magic on the table often disregarding the ego/feelings of his opponents in the process. Can't think of any other reason he'd take the mick  the way he does when he's switching hands to belittle the opposition and make the game look ridiculously easy.

If 'fans' are shocked by the latest headline they clearly haven't been following his career. IMO snooker needs 'The Rocket'. If he wants to concede early in a match I have no problem with that. There are too many 'robots' in the game at the moment and I welcome Ronnie's eccentricities.

Personally I like a tryer......

So you have saved up for a few weeks, taken the day of work ... taken your 2 excited ronnie fanatic kids along to the event... and he does that !!!

If he doesnt care for his fans, why should they care for him ?

...eh??

I agree it'd be a tough break for the kids in that scenario but atleast they'd learn a lesson that their so called 'idols' may not necessarily 'love' them in the same way. 

Players quit matches early for all sorts of reasons, some more visible and valid (in the eyes of the paying public) than others. I think when it comes to quirky characters like Ronnie you pay your money and take your chance not knowing which 'Ronnie' is going to show up (if at all). The idea that he should care about his fans is a bit odd. People will pay to watch him play regardless.

bobby1,   ...eh?? 

You'll have to be more specific if you want me to clarify anything.

Sorry, this is total crap. People will pay "regardless" ? Regardless of what, whether he turns up or not ?

Its obvious the guy has serious mental problems.  He needs professional help. If he really "cant be bothered" playing out matches, then his automatic place in these very lucrative tournaments should be given to someone who would be willing to give 100%.

This should not just be swept under the carpet..

Perhaps he'd had a bet on Hendry!

You think it's 'crap' I don't. The main point of my posts was to express surprise that people are shocked by today's events which just seem to be another example of Ronnie's antics IMO which is why I think people will turn up to watch him play whenever he's on the bill. The people that paid to see Ronnie got to see him (they'll have more of a story to tell their friends than if he'd played it out and lost in routine fashion). Could argue they got value for money.

Ok, you think he is right not to care what anyone thinks of him, why do people say that like its a good thing?
You say he doesnt give due regard to his opponents and tries to punish their egos by disrespecting them when playing left handed, so what you mean is he sets out to embarrass other players and when he is being embarrassed himself it is ok to walk out, why?

When did he last walk out of a match? as he hasnt done this before it is clearly a shock.

As for the following sentence well, the current world champion is playing the best snooker of the tourney,yet you prefer to see someone that would give in because he isnt having a good day in a kind of 'tortured genius' role, why would you find it better that he has eccentricities instead of being a fully rounded person and player and you say that being eccentric allows him to disrespect the players, fans and the game by walking out. You then say you think that is ok because you seemingly dont like watching the real top class players play because the arent flawed, instead you would rather watch this sad individual. why?

 (If 'fans' are shocked by the latest headline they clearly haven't been following his career. IMO snooker needs 'The Rocket'. If he wants to concede early in a match I have no problem with that. There are too many 'robots' in the game at the moment and I welcome Ronnie's eccentricities)

The fact you think snooker needs Ronnie shows that you vastly overrate him, and in a way I think that is why he behaves the way he does he thinks he is above everone else and the star turn, he isnt, hasnt been for years and tho I hope he comes back stronger he is bang out of order on this occasion.

regards

   Billy i don't want to sound sarcastic but where is the value for money
in what Ronnie did today.

   Neves.

I remember my 1st visit to Vegas, it was for Tyson vs Holyfield 2. The fight was called off after Tyson decided to bite a chunk out of Hollyfields ear in the 3rd round. I remember feeling really pissed off and shortchanged.
But I suppose I can now look back and say I was there, witnessing a bit of infamous boxing history.

I think with most sports people dont warm to all round perfect professionals, you have to have a mean streak or an edge to be popular, of course there are exceptions but I also think Snooker needs Ronnie, this is the most that Snooker has been talked about for ages, even if it is for the wrong things, but characters like Ronnie who are unpredictable brings fans in to watch Ronnie rather than the snooker, but it does increase the sports popularity.

Bobby you're clearly putting words into my mouth here and the fact that I'm not what you could call a 'fan' of Ronnie makes some of your statements absurd.

1. I didn't say he was right not to care about what fans think or that this would be a good thing if it was indeed his view.

What I did say was I wouldn't blame him if he didn't care. Big difference.

2. Rubbing his opponents faces in it seems to have been part of Ronnie's game for as long as I've seen him so I'm not surprised by his antics.

3. He's often said he's going to walk out on the game. You find him walking out a shock. I half expect it of him.

4. Your statement about Dott is simply a matter of opinion and YES I'd rather watch Ronnie, Williams, Ding, Ebdon and Hendry rather than the current world Champ.

  (Bobby1)   "You then say you think that is ok because you seemingly dont like watching the real top class players play because the arent flawed"

Don't know who these 'real top class players are' especially the one's that 'aren't flawed'.

5. I do think snooker needs Ronnie and I don't think this means I overrate him. You keep making wild assumptions. If I sat down and compiled my all time greats list I doubt Ronnie would make it into my top 5 so if that's overrating him so be it.

6. You don't think Ronnie is the 'Star turn'? IMO Dott and players of his ilk will never match Ronnie when it comes to drawing the crowds and attracting sponsorship. And that doesn't mean I underrate Dott. I just can't see him being a major pull for the public.

My generation Ronnie, next generation Judd Trump

Would you like your kids to behave like Ronnie O' ?

I don't know enough about his behaviour to say whether or not I'd like my imaginary kids to behave in the same fashion.

I do, I wouldn't.