blonde poker forum

I've been caught by the sneaky f****** river check raise a few times now. I even smell it here and check the turn but WTF can I do? I gotta value bet the river? he puts in his stupid f****** little sneaky **** min raise and I know exactly what the f***** has, but i gotta call right? HTF do I put a stop to this? grrrrrrr need to have a break i think.

Do you like his play here? I don't think I've ever check raised a river with the nuts. Is it a good move?

Seat 1: gilga ($107.51 in chips)
Seat 2: Bling619 ($418 in chips)
Seat 3: Xelazz ($118.50 in chips)
Seat 4: -Gotcha- ($283.75 in chips)
Seat 5: Edwa19063 ($59.75 in chips)
Seat 6: mraverage ($18.87 in chips)
Edwa19063: posts small blind $1
mraverage: posts big blind $2
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to -Gotcha- [Kh Kd]
gilga: folds
Bling619: calls $2
Xelazz: folds
-Gotcha-: raises to $10
Edwa19063: folds
mraverage: calls $8
Bling619: calls $8
----- FLOP ----- [8h Js 3d]
mraverage: checks
Bling619: checks
-Gotcha-: bets $24
mraverage: folds
Bling619: calls $24
----- TURN ----- [8h Js 3d][7d]
Bling619: checks
-Gotcha-: checks
----- RIVER ----- [8h Js 3d 7d][4h]
Bling619: checks
-Gotcha-: bets $46
Bling619: raises to $92
-Gotcha-: calls $46
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Bling619: shows [Jd Jc] (Three of a kind, Jacks, Eight high)
-Gotcha-: mucks hand  [Kh Kd]
Bling619 collected $260 from Main pot

Have you experimented with checking the fop instead of the Turn, you might find it easier to put opponents on these sorts of hands?

I C-bet probably 95% of the times I raise pre flop. From the hands you've posted I think you're a lot trickier than me, I use more of the sledgehammer approach. I can't imagine checking this flop, hmm something to think about.

I think you played it well apart from the fact i fold the river here, looks like a furstration call to me and in my experience your kings are ahead hardly ever here.

I c-bet this flop everytime as i presume like myself you fire a c-bet most of the time, check behind on the turn for pot control is good IMO. I might bet slightly less on the river as a value bet given the strength of my hand and my opponents tendancies.

I agree with Longy's post river min-raisers want a call on the river 99% of the time and your Kings looked well beaten at this point. FWIW I hate your opponents play throughout the hand surely it's the best way to win the minimum with trips. I also like Snoopy's point of checking the flop now and again it's something I hardly ever do it's always good for your game as it makes your play less predictable and keeps your opponents guessing.

Don't you think this can be one of the things pple can exploit?

I mean if i am against sledgehammer the one thing I hope is to trap them and play passive, most of the time this pays off.

Think he probably coulda stacked me if he'd been aggressive tho. Maybe if he raised pre, I 3-bet he calls, then a big ol' check raise on the flop or something. There's so many donks who play AJ like that I probably pay him off.

I agree with you tho, people are trapping me. That was why I posted this hand to get some tips on how not to fall for their traps. I have played so many 2 hour sessions where I win in the first hour and lose in the second hour as people start to play back at me. Have started to be more passive now an hour or so into a session. Passive play = Bad play tho isn't it?

I am new to this game and won't pretend I know everything, but if I have a player who 95% of the time c-bet I plan to trap him/her for sure or steal their pots by re-raising if the texture of the flop is good..

Paying attention to your opponents is crucial, their reactions to your c-bet.  If they folded until this point and suddenly they flat call it you have to ask yourself a question why, and are they capable of steals?

Do they call the turn or fold to the bets? and so on
GL

Play 2x1 hour sessions with enough of a gap in between to get a table full of "fresh fish".

Cant really comment for cash games but in tourneys i've called here many times to find my opponent turn over AJ or a busted draw - you've just got to go with your gut instinct and previous experiences with the player in question.

I've even used the min check raise move myself a few times with nothing if i believe my opponent is firing another blank at the pot ;)

Not the nuts

If he had the nuts its doubtful he'd be posting the hand on here asking "is there any way i can get away from the call on the river".

enough said?

apologies - when you said "not the nuts" i thought you were referring to byron's hand

I reckon i continuation bet somewhere between 80% and 90% of the time and i do have the problem of people playing back at me after a while. Tactics i use are delayed c-bets betting the turn instead of the flop. Also sometimes i will deliberately check a hand down where i have missed ak or something to show my opponents that im playing honestly.

In all truth until i get opponents playing back at me i c-bet just about every hand. In this hand a c-bet is good as we are betting with it and opponents don't know whether we are full of it.

If i was Bling in this hand i would have led the flop looking to get raised to build a pot and then opponent dependent i might call and check the turn trying to stack him or if the opponent is a donk im going to chuck it all in on the flop.

So why wouldn't he have the nuts - seems like an ideal opportunity to check raise if you are facing an aggressive opponent who wont be able to resist firing one last shot?

Many a time i've checked the nuts if i think my opponent has missed his draw because the only way he can win the pot is to fire a bet in on the river. If they dont then so be it, i'm only going to win the same amount of money anyway and my opponents see that i can be a tricky monkey checking the nuts so they may think twice about trying to bluff me when i check in the future.

Lol no worries.... 19th nuts??

It's maybe worth looking at how easy opponents find it to put you on a hand.

Could this guy be absolutely certain you had a big pair and would pay him off at some point? Or was he running a risk you'd actually raised something like T9s and were actually semi-bluffing with a decent draw.

yeah I was thinking about this. i think if I have T9s then the only way I put more money in the pot is if he checks the river cos that's the only way I can win it, if he bets I fold. 

Apart from making money, it's super funny when you do it and run into situations where someone flops a set, then gives you a free card on the turn to make your str8.

Then they get it all-in on the river before going ballistic with the 'you fish, raising trash', etc...