blonde poker forum

Playing live at the Broadway last night I managed to turn a good position into yet another bad exit.  I had just over 8k in chips with the blinds at 200/400 when this hand came up.  I am UTG + 1 and get dealt  Ahrt Qs.  For some reason I decided not to raise as the table was playing tight and I had been raising quite a lot and did not want to get want to get into a confrontation with AQ so I limped in (mistake 1 ?).

Guy on my immediate left (with slightly less chips) raises to 2000 and the button calls.  With the pot now at 5000 I groan, wishing I had raised and wanting to pass, but getting 3/1 decide to call (mistake 2 ?).  Raiser was tight and the button was fairly loose.

Flop:
 Aspades 9s 6s

First to act, I go all-in (mistake 3 !!!!).  I would like to say that I analysed the situation before pushing all-in but to be honest all I saw was the Ace, decided that the raiser did not have A's or AK, and thought the button who had less chips than either of us would have pushed with anything decent.  The flush ?  I didn't check my cards after the flop to see if I had the Qs because I didn't want to give away an obvious tell (LOL!).  I decided that I was going to gamble that neither player had the flush and by pushing I wanted to make sure that if they had a spade it was going to cost them to draw.

Raiser calls and turns over 9's for the set.

I think my push on the flop was a rush of blood to the head and I didn't really analyze the situation at all.  I basically donked off my stack without thinking.  My opponents would never believe I had a flush after I pushed on the flop.  I should have checked the flop.

What I am after is some advice on how to control myself in these situations but I guess that is the difference between good and mediocre players and not someting that can be learned easily.  This is beginning to sound like a whinge so I am going to stop, but I REALLY REALLY want to stop making these donkey plays.

Nobody is perfect...  But one thing you should remember is that a lot of people go broke in MTT because they can't lay down top pairs and overcards.

The big mistake is number 2, that's an auto push.

I wish all the hands on her were described in this way instead of those copy and paste online hand history jobs, by the time I've waded through those, I have lost the will to live.

I like the UTG limp, for me the big mistake is the call after someone raises to 2k and the button calls, auto fold for me, even if you hit you don't know where you are.  I can find a better spot.

Realistically at that point, you are only in front of AJ

I think a lot of players wouldn't raise AJ after a UTG limp anyway.

hehe

rotflmfao

your problem is that you groaned and tipped off the strength of your hand

rotflmfao
Inwardly, not audibly.  The audible groan came when the raiser called my push (I should have apologised as the button had yet to act).


Yep, but at this point I was thinking why the f**k did I limp.  If AQ is good enough to push with why limp in the first place ?  The limp re-raise all in from early position has the benefit of looking like a disguised monster.  Calling a quarter of my stack out of position with AQ was not a good move.  It should have been an all in or fold.  I took the passive route and got punished for it.  On balance I should have folded (AQ sucks) and if it was just me and the raiser I probably would.  With 8k left and the blinds at 300/600 there was time to pick a better spot. 


Problem is with just 20 BB's and the blinds up in 3 mins, if you are going to play you end up comitting a good portion of your stack.  If I had raised with my AQ and the raiser called (if he pushed I would have folded) what do I do if there is an ace on the flop (assuming the flop did not have 3 of the same suit) ?  I would probably have gone broke regardless, as any bet of the flop (say 3k into a 5k pot) would only leave me with 3k back and basically pot comitted.


On balance RED-DOG's advice probably suits my style of play best.  I limped because I didn't want to play a big pot with AQ and wanted to allow myself room to get out if I encountered trouble.  The limp/all-in reraise is a move I might make with AK but not AQ (even if it may be the correct play in this case).

This board has been a lot of help to me in trying to improve my game as there are many very sharp players contributing.  Unfortunately for me I only seem to analyse my hands AFTER they have been played.  All this good advice means nothing if you can't apply it and learn from your mistakes and do your thinking where it matters.  Apologies if this post has come across as self indulgent navel gazing but I was so pissed off I just wanted to vent a little. 

Have a good New Year.

How good a spot do you think you will find?

There is 4k in the middle already, if you push here you get it through a high % of the time and have 12k without a showdown.

Of course you can fold, post 900 of your stack and try to double to 14k with a 60-40 in the near futrue

I would have raised originally regardless of my table image.
My brain says I would pass to the re-raise but sometimes my hands dont listen to my brain and I kindov also make this bad call.
However I definately dont agree that no. 3 is a mistake. If I knew I had AQ with the Q of spades. I would want to put all my chips in first every time. There are shedloads of other holdings which your opponents would pass here.
No way is it a mistake. Stick it in.
Instant All-in.
 ;ifm;

Dave what better hands pass here? I ask because surely there is much more value in check raising a continuation bet than just pushing? Giving a free card here is not likely to hurt you.

how many of those hands do you want folding? I dont think theres one hand that you want to fold that will fold, but theres a few hands you want to call that will fold. I think pushing in first is the error of the hand.

snap

Wow ... maybe I'm wrong then. The way I think is...
Maybe he has KK with spade king...dont wanna give free card
Maybe he has AK with no spade and will make a bad pass...I have seen it done in this coupe.
more importantly...
Maybe he has KK QQ JJ and either he or the button moves all-in... I just can't call with this hand now. If I might be just on a flush draw, I wanna stick my chips in first...it changes the percentages
...
There is also a certain amount of equity in being called by the button on a worse hand and/or worse draw.
I've seen this coupe a few times and I've always pushed...rightly or wrongly
Interesting though.

I don't see him checking this hand, nor do i see him passing it.


Yes this is possible, however the chances he has AK is already quite slim given there are alreay 2x A's out and the fact it is very unlikely he is passing given the pot size.


Why can't we call if 1 of them moves in? We probably have the best hand, and when we don't we will have the best draw. I don't  understand how it changes the percentages aswell.



This is true but i think if it gets checked to him he checks an A very rarely, i don't see him calling off on a draw if we push unless its the nut draw.


That's how i see it anyway.

maybe, but its a long shot.

Your push lets them play better then checking does.. KK? fold.. QQ? fold... KK with a spade? they might call, which is ok (i think looking at the pot)


but if you are going to push in this spot, then you have decided to commit your chips to the pot, so it doesn't matter if you push, or if you call, as long as you stick to your guns, the chips are going in. It also does change the percentages if you push, it takes a lot of hands out their range that might bet. It reduces your equity against his range... becase you dont give him the chance to put chips in the pot badly, and he is very rarely folding hands that you like, out the pot.

I dont doubt that pushing here is +ev, but i think that checking and letting someone else bet has a superior expectation.

hmmm...it seems that I am outnumbered here, but my instincts will always make me push my chips in first.
My last attempt at justification...
Forget the hand strategy think about tourney strategy. This is not a cash game.

If I am in a cards on the backs all-in called situation 5 times in a comp I will probably be out even if I am 75-25 favourite every time. Grabbing chips without risk of elimination is a MUST. especially in a coupe like this where there aint nuffin you can have dominated. i dont like check call here.
 ;all-in;

Couldn't agree more, that's why i re-pop pre flop.

Once we are in this situation though we are not facing a "lets avoid a showdown" situation. We crush the 'bluffing hands' so badly, nowhere near 75-25, more like 90+

I think you're both right here.  Depends on lots of things, but I think calling is definitely the last option.  With the blinds as they were, I think I'd lean towards Flush's choice of the push, but knowing the other players and the situation, a fold could be the right choice.

After the call, it's very difficult.  A feeler bet and then react?  Not sure really.  Good to hear people's thoughts though - good hand Raindogs!