blonde poker forum

last night at bolton a situation happened where i need your opinion .

theres a raise pre flop 1k ,4 callers .
flop Aspades Ad Td checked round
turn  7s checked round
river  2s
checked round to last man who is sat with his sun glasses on .and ipod on .
he bets out 100 into 4k pot ,fold fold raise to 1k ,the last man does not here this and turns over his cards .
every one on the table heres the raise except the last man .
the td then gives the pot to the last man who made the mistake.
how can this be right as he didnt even call the raise until after he saw the raises cards.

Surely his hand is dead?

thats what i would have thought.

What was the explanation given?

they wanted to give him his 900 raise back,lol what a joke ,
i know what i would have done.

Give him his raise back??? LOL that's a new one!

I could see you giving him flying lessons into the nearest bush...

lol ,it is a bit of a joke though .
all the resources that grovener has got,
you would think that they would get some one in to over see the tourneys .
with it being a ranking tourny .
what would happen if this was in the final ,it could cost some one a lot of money.

i know that they are trying there best ,when i went there last year there was teething problems .
gl to them i hope it all gose smooth for them tonight.

I think you need to clarify the two bits I've highlighted - the first bit implies the raise was not called, the second bit states that it was.

I assume the last guy turn over his cards (thinking he'd been called). Then what happened? Did the first player reveal his hand, thinking the exposing of his opponent's hand meant his raise had been called?

disgusting.

is it not simple what i said the original raiser turns over his cards ,
not even calling ,when the td comes over ,he states that he had called no chips went in from him   .no one heard him .
but only when he had seen the other players cards.
why would they offer him his 900 raise back.

He should have had his I-Pod confiscated and his shades broken at the very least.

Dreadful decision - gives free reign to iPod wearers to shoot angles by claiming they didn't hear raises and cheaply show down hands.

thought this only happened in home games.lol

Why did the reraiser reveal his cards before he had been called for the exta 900?

Where you there bazza? how did i miss you if you were.

no m8 i was to late getting in from a meeting .
he didnt know he had been raised cause of his ipod ,couldnt hereanything .lol

No, I mean the guy who re raised to 1k. why did he reveal his cards before the other guy put the extra 900 in.
Wasnt he paying attention either?

cause he reveiled his thinking it was a fold

Well that guy is also at fault for not protecting his intrests in the hand, fair ruling imho.

Everyone has an obligation in protecting their own hand from dealer, player errors. The guy obviously wasnt paying enough attention to know the other guy hadnt called his reraise,like the other guy failed to realise he had been re raised. both equally
to blame

What were the "last mans" cards - if he had a very strong hand the td might have considered that he would have called the 1000.  I think this kind of ruling would be on very shaky ground but might provide some explanation as to the odd ruling. 

Why is it an odd ruling?

errrr the man didn't call the raise and exposed his cards - in many cardrooms his hand would be declared dead when he exposed it.  His actions led the raiser to consider that he had folded, not surprisingly.  Although if the raiser triumphantly showed a bluff, that'll learn him.   

errrrrrrrrrrr if you read my post, they were equally to blame. Why didnt the 2nd guy realise the 1st hadnt called the extra 900? for the same reason as the 1st. They were not paying enough attention. Exposing your hand unintentionally does not deem it dead, in some casinos you are even allowed to expose when heads up.
You are responsible for your own hand and the protection of your intrests in a pot

I have never played a tournament in a British Casino where a player is allowed to expose his hand before a showdown.

I rarely play tornaments in the UK so this might have changed - where have you seen it allowed?

I have experienced it 1st hand at blackpool, I dont agree with it btw

Ok so if I'm shortstacked on the bubble in a sattelite in Blackpool, I can move in with AA and flip my cards over - good to know.

craig it wasnt like that ,his hand was expossed when the td ask to show the hands ,
hence the showing of the cards .the man who raised the 1k is very experianced .
he wasnt very happy with the dicision.

You are confusing me now?? So you are saying the TD made the 2nd player expose his hand .

In that case,IMO if player 1 exposed his hand by accident (as in not realising there had been a raise) the TD should have informed him of the raise and given him the option of folding or calling the raise. not  allowing him to reraise. This is without player 2 exposing his hand.
Then informing him next time he will recieve a penalty.

I dont like the idea of killing someones hand if they unintentionally exposed their hand, as it leads to angle
 shooting from the other player trying to win the pot by default.

Strange the TD just made the player2 expose his hand

craig thats why the td said give him his 900 back it was a bad move by the td he didnt try to win it by default ,you know the player involved and hes one of the most honnest players you could meet.
i know if it was me i would have thrown a wobbler big style

Im not implying for 1 second that player 2 was trying to win it by default. But it does happen .I dont think the guys hand should have been killed either, but give him a time penalty.

Why wasnt the guy given the option of calling the 900 or folding before seeing player2 cards?
 player 2 should have had the chance to able to win the pot by his legitimate raise?
 player2 shouldnt be penalised as hes done nothing wrong,if it was the TD who told him to show his cards.

Imagine if you holding the nuts you wouldnt want your 900 back,
Would player1 have called the 900 on the strength of his hand? 
Could you tell us the both players holdings

I think it's a very poor ruling and only gets worse because of the intervention by the TD. The player with the I-pod should geta  time penalty, loose all his chips and get banned for three months from all poker in the UK.

If you miss something because you're not paying attention you deserve what you get IMO. no matter who you are.

Totally agree on it does not matter who the person is.
BTW Boldie were you one of saddams executioners? ;D

lol...nah I just shouted and poked fun of him ;)