blonde poker forum

Although they apparently don't work for Neteller anymore, they are big shareholders however.

Have any payment processors come forward to replace them if they pull out of US gambling?

do you have a link to the story? haven't staretd reading the papers yet

Just had a quick look for the story myself, http://www.point-spreads.com/news/internet-sportsbooks/online-gambling-feds-detain-neteller-founders-in-us-20070116.html (http://www.point-spreads.com/news/internet-sportsbooks/online-gambling-feds-detain-neteller-founders-in-us-20070116.html)

Thanks Ginger.

Well that does pose a problem, if charges are brought against them then Visa and Mastercard will surely also pull the plug.

Funny how the first arrests they make are not American though, isn't it? Netteller based on the Isle of Man and not as big or powerfull as Mastercard or Visa.

         ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D                   :( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

    you really dont know whether to laugh or cry........or just get so bloody angry!! >:( >:( >:(

Is there any reason to remove funds held in a Netteller account at this time,  thanks

Ok what is unclear for me, is that:

I am a bank based in X country, I allow american citizens to use my bank because I like their dollars.  In my X country - gambling and gaming is legal therefore I let them make deposits into poker sites.  The Americans can't just issue a warrant on me, can't they?


It is like smoking pot is illegal in the UK, but i can go to Amsterdam and smoke as much pot as I can, and open a shop that sells cannabis in Amsterdam, I can't be then prosecuted in the UK for selling dope? can I?

It seems to me that anyone who has anything to do with poker sites should delete the USA from their holiday destinations list. 

yes the americans have made it so they can arrest you for helping Americans commit what essentially is a crime..nice eh?

I don't expect many VP's from pokerstars at the WSOP let me put it that way lol.

It's a bloody disgrace IMO.

But their good hamburgers are so tasty and nice!

Oh god, I'm thinking about barbecued ribs now.

Mmm.

Ribs.

There is an update in UK Poker News (sorry can't post the link on pain of being told off) but the bottom line is that the FBI have been investigating Neteller since mid-2006 and that they say that Neteller has effectively laundered billions of dollars out of the USA from criminal activities (online gambling). There is a comment from the FBI that the multibillion dollar online gambling industry is - and I quote - "a colossal criminal enterprise masquerading as legitimate business."

One question for the guys arrested. What arrogance or stupidity possessed you to step on US soil after the events of 2006? Completely off their rockers!

from the above news report and others

US Attorney Michael Garcia said in a statement that the men knew when they took their company public that its activities were illegal.

He said: Criminal prosecutions related to online gambling will be pursued even in cases where  assets and defendants are positioned outside of the United States."  (my emphasis)

FBI Assistant Director, Mark J. Mershon, said the multibillion-dollar online gambling industry was "a colossal criminal enterprise masquerading as legitimate business."

Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre have been charged with the creation and operation of an internet payment services company (Neteller) that facilitated the transfer of billions of dollars of illegal gambling proceeds from US citizens to the owners of overseas internet gambling companies.


my comment: In essence, the US authorities are more than implying that the whole online industry is a massive front for money laundering.

A couple of american friends of mine said last night they were having problems depositing to 'Stars via Neteller, if this persists they are running out of deposit options even on sites that still accept US custom. This will only serve to dry up the liquidity of the online poker market.

Step by step the US authorities cut the ties by which Americans can play online poker. First the UIGEA gets the credit cards, now they go after Neteller.

Once they've made it impossible for Americans to play online poker with overseas companies, they'll legalise it for them to do so with US companies and Uncle Sam will get his chunk of tax.

It really is sickening.

BTW Madyank, I'm criticising the US government here - I'm not saying all Americans eat babies or drag their knuckles on the ground. :)

This is very worrying indeed.

It seems to be going very wrong for many people. I do think Andrew's view of the likely outcome make's a lot of sense but it could be a rocky road for a lot of sites going forward.

When they do, I'm joining that room!!

I agree 100%. imho it's the only reason congress has bothered with all this.

What would be the result if an American citizen transferred money into a Lloyds (of London) TSB account and get a Mastercard or Visa Card from this account/country, then transfer money into their poker account via this method. Would the American government try to take the board of directors of these companies to task in the USA.

officially yes...in the real world? they won't mess with a proper bank. however Mastercard and Visa will be expected to uphold US law when it comes to depositing..even though the US government surely wouldn't mess with them

Nearly posted this in a new thread but after a read through appears to be US only but the noose is tightening across the pond.
Basically Neteller stopping transfers to merchants in next 12 hours.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8798525&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=5

Yeah... just tried to deposit on stars via neteller to see what it says, and it has already been suspended.. For U.S. customers

Hmmm..... How long left till the 270 or whatever days it was are up?

unless Visa and mastercard + pokerstars give the finger to the US government this will be a disaster for online poker.

It's been a while since we've had a new sub atomic particle to get excited about.

Maybe they will now finally get off the pc poker and back in the lab where they belong.

http://content.neteller.com/content/en/member_businessupdate.htm

well we knew it was coming but it's a sad day for poker nonetheless.

Could take up to 2 weeks to get a withdrawal from Neteller to your bank because of unprecedented demand.

no change in the share price, why would that be?

Share prices anticipate future events, not past or current events, today's news is what's known as "in the price".

i was gonna say something along those lines but i wasnt sure

When a quoted Company announces profits up, say, 50%, the share price generally DROPS, because the 50% rise was anticipated, & "in the price".

Now, let's look at, for example, British Airways. The Unions say "we are gonna go on strike" & Management says "sorry, no deal", & they have to cancel hundreds of flights. What happens to the share price? It rises. Why so? Because the City thinks "ah, that's good, there is gonna be a strike, that means management are being strong, not giving in, that's a GOOD thing". Conversely, when the strike is called off, the share price usually drops!

If a profit drop is announced, the price often rises, as the City had anticipated the fall, & now thinks the Company will get it's act together, or a takeover bid will emerge. Generally, well-run, efficient, companies do NOT get taken over, as there is no room for improvement, & their efficiency is in the price. Badly run companies - they are GOLDEN, because they can be improved. Bizarre.....

Share prices are a weird & wonderful thing. The Tokyo Stock Exchange rises, & my shares in, say, BT, rise. WTF is that about?

In the '87 crash, the Wall Street fell sharply, & the FTSE followed suit, my £27,000 portfolio became worth £13,000 overnight. Had anything changed to affect ANY of my companies earnings potential? Nope. That's shares for you. Cuts both ways though.

Oops, I got carried away there. Where were we?.......

Talking about trains, in particular the benefits of the steam powered locomotive.

Trading in Neteller shares has been suspended since first thing on Tuesday morning (before all this broke).

When trading does reopen the share price will do this:

        ¦
        ¦
        ¦
        ¦
        ¦
        ¦
        V

So much for MY sermon.....

Would you like to buy shares in my new company Magic Beans PLC?

It's a wonderful investment opportunity.

Nah, I'm overweight in Magic Beans already.

I tell you, I've backed a few losers in the share market down the years......Jeez. Regentcrest, Morceau, Burns-Anderson, BCCI, Marley, Birse.......

And the bad news keeps coming, just received this from Mansion:

Dear jane


NETeller has today advised its customers in the United States that they are no longer able to transfer funds to or from online gambling operators.

As one of our non-US members, we are writing to you to confirm there is no impact on you or your ability to play at MANSION.

"No impact on my ability to play at mansion".... hmmmm not directly, but indirectly it's has a HUGE impact.

I understand your thinking (easy money etc), but you would be rewarding the US government and the slimy site in their pocket doing this.
Who thinks that Party are working with the US government to try and create a monopoly on online poker where the US can try to tax the whole world for online poker?

If Party do come out as the official US approved poker site, we have to boycott it or make a monster that will kill us all.
They may only tax americans to start with, but once they dominate the market I bet they will come with a tax levy paid direct to George W on every single raked pot and tourny cashout regardless of where you live.

You have been warned!   dum dum dummmmmm

Postnote: The US governments policy on online gaming outside the US has to be taken to task by the rest of the world surely, f ing fascists. Land of the free....my arse. Land of the rich...f everyone else.

I've always looked upon rake as a fee I pay a site for them to provide me with players I can beat.

I'll play with whomever can do this best for me, and I won't give too much thought as to whether it is the US government, or a conglomerate acting out of Bermuda that ends up with the dosh.

I fail to see how the monster will kill us all.

i agree. It doesnt make me sleep better at night coz i know my money is going to some already very rich men in gibraltar or the caymans. In fact i think it best to be poured into governments which will improve the economy especially if that were the case in UK. I would prefer the x billion pounds of profit from party poker and the likes to be put into NHS or education and people below povery line.
I know it would never happen but the porfits from 1 (maybe 2 years) ogf profit from the monsters could pretty much write off much of Africas debt. I would raaher know my money is going to help people than to buy some fact c*nt an bigger yacht!

Can we have one of those "O RLY" owls that says "COMMIE"  :D

would you like some polonium 210 with that tank!

lol do we?

I'll play on it. However i don't see the USA as the Devil so its easier on my conscience.

I don't like party..but if the money is to be made there then that's where we'll have to play :)

You think the US Govt would prefer Party to an American company? I would thing Harrahs or even Yahoo or Google would be more likely.