blonde poker forum

Game #4186296964: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2007/01/16 - 13:44:21 (UK)
Table "Deuceofhearts" Seat 2 is the button.
Seat 1: blomstret ($146 in chips)
Seat 2: __echo__ ($76.07 in chips)
Seat 3: M3Boy ($97.50 in chips)
Seat 4: leftfoot ($91.75 in chips)
Seat 5: Eldorko ($125.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Lppy123 ($100 in chips)
M3Boy: posts small blind $0.50
leftfoot: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to M3Boy [Jc Jd]
Eldorko: folds
Lppy123: folds
blomstret: folds
__echo__: raises to $4
M3Boy: calls $3.50
leftfoot: calls $3
----- FLOP ----- [8s Ah 7c]
M3Boy: checks
leftfoot: checks
__echo__: checks
----- TURN ----- [8s Ah 7c][Jh]
M3Boy: bets $7
leftfoot: folds
__echo__: raises to $21

What do you do?

 ;all-in;

Three-bet it, doesn't need to be quite all in, just do whatever you can to build the pot enough to eventually get all his chips in.

With no other info on opponent- call turn bet, and call river bet.

Players will often check a flopped monster after raising pre-flop. When an opponent fails to put in a continuation bet and then shows strength on the turn, which was very unlikely to have helped them, you have to be very wary. There is a good chance he has a set of aces here, and if not then he's not calling an all-in unless he has AJ (unlikely) or lower set (unlikely as he should have bet flop) or T9 (possible hand as he raised from button.)

*Just calling may seem extremely passive, but his play is typical of either a very strong hand or a bluff, and this often saves you money when you're behind/makes you money when you're ahead.

against this player i repop it.......he has a wide range of raising hands and i am pretty sure you are well ahead. he prob has A 10 or A J

There's so many hands that you're crushing and will call a 3-bet that he might have not bet the flop with here.  A8, A7, AK even, 8's, 7's, J7/J8. 

Well, as it so often does, it comes down to your knowledge of the player. That flop should not be checked with any of those holdings- A8, A7, AK, 88, or 77, and he shouldn't be raising 4xBB, even from the button, with J8 or J7 in cash.

I'm not disagreeing with what you say that they are hands that he may have played like this- just that they shouldn't (generally) be played like this. So if I did have info on him, and I didn't rate him then I would be more aggressive. However I would probably wait to raise on the turn or river as this gives him another chance to bluff if he is holding nothing.

(I'd still be very wary of a set of aces though :) )

This seems truely bizarre logic, why is top set checked and 2nd or 3rd set bet? I really do not get this!

Paul i would re-raise pre flop, now i am in this situation its got to be a 3 bet...........i think.

yep a 3bet would do nicely here.

Here is what happened :

M3Boy: calls $14
----- RIVER ----- [8s Ah 7c Jh][9c]
M3Boy: checks
__echo__: bets $51.07 and is all-in
M3Boy: calls $51.07
----- SHOW DOWN -----
__echo__: shows [Th 7h] (A Straight, Jack high)
M3Boy: shows [Jc Jd] (Three of a kind, Jacks, Ace high)
__echo__ collected $153.14 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $156.14 Main pot $153.14 Rake $3
Board [8s Ah 7c Jh 9c]
Seat 1: blomstret folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: __echo__ (button) showed [Th 7h] and won ($153.14) with A Straight, Jack high
Seat 3: M3Boy (small blind) showed [Jc Jd] and lost with Three of a kind, Jacks, Ace high
Seat 4: leftfoot (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: Eldorko folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Lppy123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
****HAND ENDS****

Badly played hand by me, but did any of you put the guy on T 7 ?

Thats the problem with flat calling pre flop imo, his range is huge and its hard to know how to play against such a large range.

yep...and also once he moves in on the river any ten kills you now. I have to say I don't like the call to have invested 21$ into the pot and then call a river bet for 51$ when any ten kills you. I reckon you'd have to give it up on the river to be honest. But I might be the only one on that one.

Totally agree, never usually flat call.

One mistake just led to another, and I donked off my stack to him

Because top set in this instance would be a set of aces, and you will rarely get action from your continuation bet.

Whereas middle and bottom set will get action from anyone with an Ace, and you want to build the pot as early as possible.

I don't think you did play it badly. If you push on the turn you're going to win the pot of course, but you won't be getting any more out of him.

If he's bluffing (which he was) he has a very slim chance to outdraw you (and could just have easily have been drawing dead.) If you know he's a reckless player who loves to bluff then the small risk of letting him hit is probably out-weighed by the chances of him bluffing again on the river with nothing.

What hand will give AA action on the turn that wont give action on an A78 flop, my guess would be a str8 draw that completes, surely thats not a good thing!

I'm not sure if your question is in response to my posting or not, but if it is I don't see the relevance.

(To answer your question though, surely a stright draw would give action to AA on this flop- unless the price is too high.)

Thats my point if you bet 77/88 here surely you bet AA aswell? Slow-playing a set of aces here means you only get action when you are beat (when the str8 completes) betting the flop surely swells the pot so you get draws putting money in.

Yes, I would bet it. My comment was "Players will often check a flopped monster after raising pre-flop." That is, a lot of players would check a set of aces here whereas they would bet middle/bottom set.

Sounds odd that they would slowplay the nuts but not the 2nd or 3rd nuts but i will take your word for it.

Well, as I mentioned, there generally aren't many hands that will call a continuation bet on a A87 flop when you're holding AA. Whereas it's far more likely that an Ace has called your pre-flop raise when you're not holding 2 of them, and therefore middle/bottom set are likely to get action when they bet.

Agree, U gotta re-pop preflop IMO, unless you have extensive notes saying that the player is an absolute rock, so the button raise is irrelevant.

Even flat calling pre-flop, Once you see the turn card, no offence to 0.5/$1 players but im sure its profitable gettin your $$ in right there and then, you will get called with a lot of weaker holdings and the odd occaison they may have the stright, but you got outs, and if he has AA, tip your hat n re-load, unless u hit your 1 outer, lol