blonde poker forum

Firstly, this is not a post to have a dig at anyone, but more a post to get peoples thoughts on something that has probably been discussed many times before, so please forgive me if it bores you. ( FLUSHY lol )

Luton held another successful Festival this week with many good players attending. Also there were many new faces there who surprised alot of the regulars with there solid and unusual plays. One new bloke who l had not seen at festivals before was a guy called Pep (don't ask me to say his real name) from Northampton who played some good solid poker and if he continues to target these bigger events l believe he will get a few good results. One of the regulars that l have to give a mention to is Carlo Citrone, this man just keeps on going everywhere to all comps and takes his beats and wins with the same grace, he really is a credit to poker, a real gentleman. Other names in attendance this week were regulars Tikay, Mickey Wernick, JP, Stu Nash, Tighty, Red Dog, YoYo, Mick Fletcher, Jon Hewston, Tino, Tony Chapman, The Hit Squad, Paul King, Ian Woodley, James Browning, Des Jonas, Chandra, Lalit, Rob Garfield and Joe Grech. One final mention is for Fran (LittlemissC) who ran really deep in the £250, which had a tough field, well done Fran, great effort.

Well now for the thread title. The winner of the main event was a nice guy and a big congratulations to him for a great win. I sat with Mehmet for the first 5 hours of this comp and about 6 times l watched him make suicidal calls with one pair. I remember saying to myself l will have his chips before l leave this table. I tried to target him every time he was in a pot and my big opportunity came when the binds were 100/200. He flat called UTG and then there was a raise on my right to 600 (guy was raising every pot), so l called with  Js   8s  on the button. SB folds, BB calls.

The FLOP comes    Tc   Qd   4c


BB checks and Mehmet bets 2000, the raiser calls and the value there and chips l call hoping for a 9, BB folds.


The Turn comes    9s


Mehmet bets 2000, leaving 3700 behind. The original raiser folds, l dwell and put Mehmet all in with a bit of speech play, HE CALLS INSTANTLY.


HE TURNS OVER   Td   Jh    I'm not surprised believe it or not having seen his cards and calls earlier in the game.


The River comes    Kc


SPLIT POT.


Now all l'm asking is how does Mehmet go on and win, not because of the lucky King but how does he make this call with second pair. It would be interesting to know if he made any similar calls later in the comp. But there is doubt that Mehmet was extremely lucky in alot of early pots. Was it just his day? God Bless him, he was a nice fella but a lucky basket. I was sick about my exit but once again l had my chips in whilst well in front and my opponent who made the final made a lucky river. A big thankyou to the Luton staff who were great.

That is exactly why I am sticking to internet poker, good tecnique gets rewarded with good results.

PS

Michael, You say that you "put Mehmet allin and after a bit of speech-play he calls instantly".

I was under the impression that he didn't speak any English.   ;popcorn;

"Last weekend, in a game with a lot of short term luck, a lucky player won a tournament."

In other news it was revealed today that the Pope wears green and white hooped pyjamas in bed instead of blue ones.

I bearly speak it mate so we where well matched.  :D

Always knew he followed Celtic, God Bless him.

I watched part of this final when there were 4 players left until the last 2. I found the play very slow and soft with a lot of checking through to the river.

I think in this instance a keen player hit a lot of good cards (Aces 7 times I believe) and made some interesting calls along the way.

I was never sure if he called all ins and raises thinking he was ahead or if he wanted to gamble, when asked if he wanted to deal he didn't want to - he wanted to play - and who could blame him, he may have had others shaking their heads but he enjoyed every moment.

I think Michael that you played him right, pushing him to make a decision, just don't know if he thought he had much of a decision to make.

As for speech play - I didn't realise you did that - I thought your questions last time we played about my increasing age and the fact that I had allegedly been about a bit were just you taking an interest in me - don't tell me you didn't mean it - i thought we had something going there for a while.....   ::) 8)

Maybe there's a post on a Turkish poker board somewhere laughing at 'this silly Irish guy calling 2000 into a pot of 4500 to hit three outs'

Andrew don't really know who you are and really don't want too but the silly Irish guy was well chipped up, the turkish guy was betting  weak and l was intending to make a move whatever came on the turn and if l play my style of poker and am successful with it l don't intend on changing it. You are obviously a successful player with much more live experience than me so forgive my novice play.

to be honest, i wondered why you was calling on the flop too... I didnt think 2000 into a 2500 pot was neccessarily weak either.

I think there are better indicators of Mehmet's luck to be fair. Knocking out Rob Garfield with K-9 against Garfield's A-K on a K-x-x board in a big pot was the most important I think, since imo, Rob was one of the best players still in at that point.  I thought the wheels were coming off when when the final table came along and he did around 230k of his 367k stack quite early on with both Mark Lowe and Ariel Adda, (who I thought were the two most likely to go HU) check/raising him off multiple pots, but he went another card rush, (I believe he had A-A around 8 or 9 times yesterday) and then made a call all-in with Ahrt 8h versus a re-raise from a player who had been playing pretty tight who had K-K, and managed to spike the ace when 4-handed.

hello Mick, I enjoy your blog sir.

I would likle to make a comment on this hand. I don't understand you calling the flop bet at all, The guy has less than 6k left after his flop bet so even if you hit you are not getting the correct value to call. As Yank says you may only have three outs in that spot so surely this is a pass.

I'm also confused by the your comment that he was betting weak, he has bet the pot, and that you were going to make a move on him on the turn as you have passed comment that he was calling all kinds of bets. Surely this guy is not the guy to be making a move on when he has put 2600 out of an 8k stack in the middle and has shown he is likey to call.

...having never played Mick, I too had the pleasure of some of his complimentary speech play at Luton.
  
 Makes it even more sweet when you push him off two pots heads up and then move tables ;D
 
 

I think if the hand with Rob Garfield is explained in FULL by Floppy you will understand why l called the flop bet.

Allow me to introduce myself then.

I'm very much an amateur player who, whilst having some success, is always wanting to learn more about how the best players play. I am fully aware of things like pot odds and implied odds, playing the player not the cards, and making moves when the situation is right. When I see hands by people with far more experience than me I like to analyse their play and see what I can learn.

On first glance, in this hand you called 2000 into a pot of 4500 against two players with four, maybe only three, outs to the low end of a straight. The player you are targeting only has 5700 more chips you can take off him. If you don't catch your nine, then it is highly likely that Mehmet will bet again, seeing as he bet into two players on the flop, one of whom was the pre-flop raiser. This will leave him with not very much back in relation to the pot size. Even if he checks to you and you make a move you've already noted that he has big trouble laying one pair down. A player who bets into a pre-flop raiser on the flop has probably hit the flop in some way, wouldn't you say, making it likely he'd call your bet?

All this analysis completely ignores the pre-flop raiser, who was also in the hand when you'd made your call, and could also have caused trouble for you.

Now you say you would make a move on the turn - my inferior analysis has suggested this was highly unlikely to work. You say you were chipped up - perhaps you could tell us how the apparant lack of edge you have in this situation is more than compensated by your chip stack?

My novice little brain is obviously not capable of thinking to a level deep enough to fully comprehend the depth of advanced play on display in this hand and, in my quest to become a better player, I ask if you would be so kind as to deign us with the wisdom you have and enlighten us as to the subtle, delicate, one might say imperceptible, thought processes you went through.

I hope we can be friends and, maybe, one day, you might permit me to teach you a couple of things about not taking every perceived slight on an internet messageboard so frigging seriously.

 :goodpost:

i just fail to see what move it was you made. He DOMINATED you on the flop and in my opinion it was you who sucked out!

So If I have a big stack and the gut shot, I shall call the bets on the flop because I can afford it?
 :dontask:

come on guys the OP used to play 100/200 NL online. he obv knows a lot more about making advanced plays than you amateurs.

We want to learn....

Andrew your post is to technical for me mate, it will take me a few days to decipher it but l'm sure it is a good sound logical explanation of what l did wrong and what Mehmet did right. What if he was betting a draw and l hit the 8 or J l'm probably in front. Its all IF IF IF IF. I play a very strange game but l don't play an ABC game because in my mind you CANNOT win playing this way.

No Disrespect meant.

Everyday of the week mate. Betting into a raiser on the flop doesn't mean he has hit it. See another card, your there to win, not fold like a chicken everytime somebody bets into u. Hell l was going to re-raise on the flop. Play POKER with no fear. One OBJECTIVE , to win and NO DEALS.

Sorry you did not bet - you flat called hoping for the 9- your words not mine.  Now if you miss it - knowing that he is a bit fishy - you still bet the turn? 

How come Flushy has not commented on this?

He is busy preparing new lessons on how to beat poker with low str8 draw hands.  94/ 72/83/...../////

Because Flushy is a Muppet(self proclaimed) ;D

Yes bud, what l'm saying is that Mehmet bet into the origional raiser l called for value and a chance to eliminate him.

The GREAT WHITE ONE  ;)

lol

Just another long disguised bad beat thread! :)

So what were your chances then to hit your 3 outer, or let's be optimistic 4 outer?  

He probably thought the same when he called you on the turn:)

And you and your mate Joey that called my re-raise with J 10 at the GUKPT would know all about them Dave. ;grr; ;grr;

JT and 94o are the nuts.

Lol. He reckons ur blog is wrong btw. Ur re-raise was far less than u stated. But even so u cant blame him for gambling, the entry of the tournament was half - 1 buyin of what he plays. So on a bad night online he loses 10x the entry of the tourny.

I can't even remember the chips in play, but l would have done the same as him after the call Dave. But FFS we were having a beer and a laugh together. Nice fella but l can't wait to play him again. lol Hawko was takin the piss about it last night on BF.

The way i read it is, and believe me i am no expert, but love to play the game, you called and got lucky, then he got lucky!!!!, if he misses you have made a "great play".

Is it not the situation  of when "the chips go in" you need your LUCK to stand up( how many times do we hear of AA bing beaten by inferior hands?)

lol

Hang on a min.................I think I've just read the most accurate in every single detail , most beautifully well written Blonde post ever with  just a tad of  sardonic humour.

I tip my imaginary hat to you sir !!!!.

John.

Forget about the imaginary one, use this one.  ;hattip;

God bless you Michael you do now how to stir it up. My opinion for what it is worth (and before you say it, I know, not very much) is this,

Player A has chips which he/she has paid for.
Player B has chips which he/she has paid for.

Player A likes to take risks and play a broad spectrum of hands
Player B likes to sit for hours on end playing like a super rock

They were both prepared to put their money into the tourney regardless of how they play. That is the one of the many beauties of poker. I think trying to prove or disprove a players style and motivation for taking a certain action at a given moment is pointless. The person is either right or wrong. The person is either lucky or unlucky at a given moment. If it were just a game of skill with no luck that we are looking for then we would all play chess.

By the way it was a pleasure sitting next to you in the £200. What a table.

Two chess players with kinda similar abilities, one is still noticably better than the other. The better one will not necessary win every time they play.

A lot of moves in chess, especially in the middlegame, are made with mostly positional principles in mind, rather than a solid cast iron plan.

You don't necessary know the permetations of your bishop bashing 20 moves down the line. When you have two or more seemingly attractive options available to you, some may lead to victory, others to defeat. Without a computer or grand master handy, you don't know which one is which, but have to make the move anyway.

Luck does exist in chess, we should all stick to poker for the time being. Play 100s or 1000s of tournaments and card games are 0% luck, you can take those odds to the bank.

back to the original question...

The likelihood is that he had an unbelievable run of good cards and was quite simply... lucky.

There's no reason why people can't be lucky for such a prolonged period, it can happen and does happen, but that's the beauty of the game, anyone can win, however bad a player they are.

Makes you wonder though, I bet there is a tournament player out there who will all think is good, when maybe, just maybe it is the contrary, with our views being clouded by a prolonged and rather incredible run of good luck.

But the best man/performance on the day will win, whilst in poker, you can be the best player there, play the best poker out of anyone on that day, and still come nowhere near the final table.

Lads l play poker my OWN way and learn from everything l do, l learn everyday and l improve every week. I most definitely do not play an ABC game. I have never read a Poker Book and don't intend in reading one. I want to be me, Michael McCool Poker Player, l don't want to be a mixture of other players. I never watched Late Night Poker and l played my first game of poker in January 2006. I take risks and l often pay people off in pots when chipped up to see if l have read their hand right.

In the Main Event Luton Prior to Christmas l went out 10th with two pair as an over pair hit trips on the river. I went out of the Main Event at Luton this week with two pair to an over pair when it hit runner, runner 7 to counterfeit my two pair. Will l play it the same again and make the mad call to hit the two pair, OFF COURSE I WILL. Just remember when your playing me l will be playing ANY two cards trying to bust you. I want to win so bad, and this year l will make a strong challenge for No.1 in the European Rankings. I play 200/300 hands of HU in my kitchen with the lads who work in the kennels everyday. Any hand can win and anyone can play any two cards. Come play me and see how this silly Irish Man gives you easy opportunities to take him out.

I'm not a Great Player but I MOST DEFINITELY WILL BE ONE IN 3 or 4 YEARS. Why else do l play, to be dead money for others and be stuck in the rut. Everybody is after the big one, l'm after everyone l play.

Very good post Phil, l don't know why l stir it up  ;). I'm just a farmers son from a small village in the Irish Countryside trying to get a few bob from poker. I keep to myself when playing and hardly open my mouth. Whats Up, people just want a piece of me. I think l've got one of those "beat me with a stick faces".  ;nemesis; ;nemesis;

Look forward to sitting with you again mate. Your a true gent. Your face when your man sucked out on you early is something that will live long in my memory, lol.

Definitely spot on Snoopy, happens to me every tourney.

Keep on posting m8, you add a lot of value and interest to the forum.

P.S.  Why have we not yet heard from Flushy?

Pardon? 
If I remember rightly when playing you at Luton you were banging the table to try and get my attention so you could be verbal with me! I have never had to turn my ipod up so much!  :D

Fran, please no more red capitals  ;surrender; ;frustrated; ;smackedbottom;


Thanks Fran, but they did look awful, and I for one couldn't read it.

Tracy you should take this as a compliment love. You came to our table playing solid poker with many raises and much confidence. I try to target better players very quickly to let them know l will not be the whipping boy at the table but l think Ali was beating me to it. So it was a compliment not a come on.  ;bumwiggle;

You give that same performance in 100 comps, and the skill will shine through.

Thanks for the compliment (and mentioning the whipping). What am I going to do on Friday - I was going to have my hair done and legs waxed ready ........oh well - let down yet again.......sigh.   What a week - Tighty went home alone on Sunday and now rejected by the Slick Kid - it's just not my day...... :(