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So this year marks the 300th anniversary of the Act of Union, the perfect time to dissolve it?

Scottish independance( and indeed english independance too) is long overdue.  Its time for Scotland to run her own affairs!!
independence is not about being anti-english but rather pro Scottish!! having our country run by westminster is frankly absurd!! a feeling shared by our friends in the north of england, who are actively seeking regional assemblies.

as o son of the central belt im not even one of the worse affected, anyone livinf further north has it much worse and those in the highlands or islands almost completely forgotten!!

as power continues to shift to europe scotland needs her own voice to be heard there, we dont need to be represented by a government withe such a south east england bias.

independence does not mean the SNP, when independence is secure you can vote for anyparty you like, even god forbid the tories. at least then they will  be Truly scottish tories.

Anyway at this years holyrood elections, get out and vote, vote for Scotland, vote to give our children there own country, Vote for Independence!!!



All views will be heard with interest, especially those from my friends in England.

Be quiet, that's an order from your masters :D

Didn't we have this debate before?
I think it got out of hand.

Recent polls have given me the hope that rather than rely on the Scots (who have been fed the 'susidised from England line too long) to vote for independence, it looks like it could be the English who vote for it instead.

I'd welcome it & we can then see how the countries get on.  

I'd liken the relationship at present to sharing a flat with an overbearing mate, you start resenting them to the point of hatred. Move out & you can go back to being mates when in the pub, but not be stuck with him!

Shut it you ;)

mfi makes a good point - if we are to discuss it let's keep it civil. Pretend your Mum's reading it :D (My Mum's born in Scotland from English parents - I've got to keep the nationalistic rants toned down a bit).

statements like this, wether serious or not, are probably the reason it got out of hand!!

i am hoping for a more serious discussion.

Total independence?  What about public money and it's spending?

No mate better light hearted than not i think.

I think it'll be a great thing for a number of reasons, mainly because "you" couldn't vote in the prime minister for "us".
Blair would never have been reelected without Scottish voters.

Total. What's raised in Scotland is spent in Scotland. Of course the oil revenues & exported electricity would be taxed, and English students would have to pay fees to attend the Scots Unis.

The figure usually quoted is ever so slightly misleading.

each country could decide on how to spend its own public money


i give up???


ok so im on 499, time to reflect me thinks

I agree. Similarly we'd never have had our industries & infrastructure destroyed by Thatcher, who knew nothing she did in Scotland would hurt her as she was getting no votes up here anyway.

raab...where are you living just now??

Let Scotland be ran by the Scottish.

So when the Olympics come around the English can have their own football team!

Do you think Scotland (and may as well stick Wales in the discussion here) could financially support themselves? 

You mentioned English Students paying fees to go to Scottish Uni's - how about the Scottish Students moving south or do they pay fees already?  My knowledge of the uni systems isn't too good :D

Personally I'm not fussed either way, but am interested to see what would happen if it were to happen.

Scots students pay fees in England. GB student's fees are paid by the Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS)

Edit - I just looked it up to check, and, as EU members English students would still not pay fees in Scotland. (TBH if we started charging them you could close Edinburgh & St Andrews Unis ;) )

The whole point of the Act of Union was to stop you guys from getting too cosy with the French and opening up another attack route to England from the north.

Now that's not an issue I really don't see why Scotland shouldn't go it alone. It's not as if it's some tiny little country - the population is similar to Ireland's and they've done tremendously well economically over the past 20 years.

I must admit - I thought this thread was going to be a reference to the the fact that England finally beat Australia on a cricket pitch today.

Feels like more than 300 years though.

If Scotland went independent could George Galloway be exiled back to his origins to leave everyone but The Scots alone?


On a different note, there are significant military/strategic issues which make full independence very difficult if not highly unlikely.

I'm sure Hadrian's Wall would be rebuilt quite quickly if the situation arises :D

I have lived in Scotland for a while now and always think it's quite funny when this is brought up.

Untill you have some decent politicians of your own I wouldn't really go it alone.
Hollyrood does not have a lot of powers at the moment and yet what it does it doesn't do very well. (A certain parliament building springs to mind)

Whenever I have met Scottish MP's (and met a fair view when I did my thesis) I always found a complete lack of understanding when it comes to Economics. I like Alex Salmond (SNP bloke for those who don't know) but in the chat we had even he agreed that, although Oil revenue seems decent now, the majority of Scottish oil is gone already and that it will be sorely missed when it's gone (which will be fairly soon)
Scotland has to do MUCH more to attract industry then it's currently doing. The reason Ireland is doing soo well for itsself is because it subsidised the living hell out of business to attract it. Scotland simply has no other choice but to do this if it wants to be successfull.

Ireland also made a joined cross-party effort to be successfull. Scotland is currently not doing this. All the political parties do here is nitpick and complain about how the others are all a bunch of liars. Nicola Sturgeon (yuck) is a prime example of how politics should NOT be done, especially by someone as Senior as she is within a major party.
The politicians shout a lot but I have yet to hear any of them come up with a viable economic plan for a future outside the union.

The Scottish people will also have to realise that certain things HAVE TO be done. Scotland will have to join the Euro. This really isn't a massive sacrifice (other then maybe to an inflated sense of pride being derived from the pound) and it is vital for the rapid economic growth Scotland would require if it's to be competitive with the business market in surrounding nations. I know Alex Salmond suggests this aswell I just hope the tabloids and the Scottish people will realise it's use.
One of the other things I think would be wise would be a complete restructuring of the military. Scotland doesn't need as big an army as it has now, there's simply no need for it. However it would be wise to continue to have a joined Intelligence and Military force of some kind. Whether this would be in a joint euro effort (as other countries are doing at the moment) or whether that would be in a British effort is open for debate. This also seems to be a sore spot with the Scottish.

There is no doubt it can be done. There is no reason why Scotland by itsself can not become a successfull nation. But to do so the politicians and the people in Scotland need to realise that to make Scotland successful they have to pull together and come up with a plan for the future of Scotland. At the moment they seem unwilling to do so and therefore breaking out of the union now would not be the greatest of ideas.

Well it didn't work too well... if the French had done their part the border would have been in the Midlands. (We got as far as Derby) while oor friends in the Auld Alliance ast at the Channel, waiting to see how we got on :( .

There was a lot of religion involved in it as well.

Independent Scotland - monarchy or republic?

Why do you want independance ?

You will be running the UK soon enough.

Gordon Brown will be PM soon enough, and most of the top government positions are occupied by Scots.

I think you are planning to take over .... ;)

I don't think anyone in England really cares about what Scotland do to be honest!

Well said.

Frankly i don't care, you all just move to London anyway.

My only concern is you would be destroyed economically.

The government did at the time of the last devolution election (75) - keeping very schtum about the report that anticipated Scotland having one of the strongest currencies in Europe if Independence had been achieved, and the potential bankrupcy of the rest of the UK.

But we still get subsidies brought up all the time :D

Flushy - don't believe it for a second.

I personally think any devolution is a backwards step, this planet should be looking to having a single government one day.

But on the other hand, if Scotland go alone they may stop blaming us for everything and lose the chip lol.
I think the flat analogy is a good one.
But this would not be a painless manouvre by any means, armed forces alone...eek.

Who'd pay the taxes to support an independent Scotland?  Most seem to live in England.

first off scotland's oil has been holding up governments in the UK since the 70s now that its nearly all gone would be a good time for the english to let the scots go and scotland will only be worhwhile tax wse for the next 8-12 years

2nd voting for the SNP in the scottish election is useless unless you want the loony left making important desicions for the next 4 years, voting for the SNP in a general election is the only SAFE way to get an independant scotland

3rd i cant see much dfference in being ruled from holyrood or westminster both will look after there votes in the built up areas and leave the countryside to rot with silly hunting bans while expecting farmers too look after the welfare of the lambs that those foxes whose numbers multiply nearly as quick as rabits mutalate

now i can expect some abuse from some city dwelling animal lover left wing loonies for my views so i will now refrain from making any more politic posts on this thread

My position is that it was 300 years ago, time to forget about it. If every nation held a grudge with what the British Empire has done to their country in the last 300 years, they wouldn't be too popular at all.

We are one country now, is it not greedy to say we want full independance? Use all our resources ourselves to achieve greater prosperity.

Why not independdance for Aberdeen aswell, could we not get on better without having to drain our oil and natural gas money to the central belt?

Not really the case at all, quite the opposite true if you look at the economy of Ireland as a model.

We'd no longer be investing in a high tech miliatary, and sending them all over the place. This would help the coffers a fair bit.

I just don't think it's a responsible thing to do, breaking up into smaller nations so that we can be richer. Ignoring the responsibility to world stability by no longer helping to buy the guns. Is iit not hypocritical aswell, trying to stop a civil war in one part of the word, at the same time we're taking a pair of scissors to our own country.

Figures have shown that, per head, the government always spend less on people living in England. The North of Ireland being the most costly as it were.

Not only should we have our own devolved parliament, we should have a new National Anthem. Look at Wales, "Land Of Our Fathers" A song celebrating the glory of Wales. Look at Scotland, they seem to have adopted "Flower Of Scotland" A song of scottish pride and what do we have? "God Save The Queen", a song that has nothing to do with the majesty of England but something that is nothing more than a slave song praising whoever has the DNA to preside over us lowly serfs.

One thing I've noticed is those who are most keen to move away from the Union flag is the English. Yes it has connotations with the far right etc but English people have quite rightly put the St George's Cross at the forefront of "Englishness". We want away from the union more than anyone, we want to reclaim our Englishness, just as our Irish, Scottish and Welsh brothers and sisters have done.

How do you define Englishness? You can't really as it's just us, but to me it's tolerance and respect to all others and pride in ourselves. Britain as a concept is moribund, only because we are better than that, we as a people know it and don't cling on to past glories. We love all those who share our sceptered isle with us and share a kindred spirit. Identity on a national level is thankfully not what it was. We've had a bad time of it in the press, certainly in the way that every single fight abroad regarding Football is always wrongly considered the fault of the English. A stereotype that is pathetic, we do not base our opinions on ill thought out stereotypes, we do not judge a book by it's cover. I say judge us on who we are, not the media's portrayal. We are a country built on the understanding of other cultures and ways of life. We are the most vibrant and cosmopolitan country you can find.

We are English, the old days of imperialism are dead. We have every reason to be proud.

Copy and paste from the daily Mail ??

I only read the Sun (and look at the pictures in the Sport)

Standard.

Hunting ban doesnt stop farmers killing foxes? They can shoot as many as they like, 60 people chasing 1 fox isn't exactly an efficient culling method.
1 farmer with gun v 20 foxes a better method