blonde poker forum

Not my best game but can hold my own - we are down to the final 6 and two of us hold a chip lead over the other 4 when the following hand occurs in a battle of the blinds. Would appreciate opinions on how others would play it.

PokerStars Game #8427129385: Tournament #42679445, $8.00+$0.80 Omaha Pot Limit - Level XIV (1500/3000) - 2007/02/13 - 19:10:49 (ET)
Table '42679445 5' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: Mr_e_Joker (31580 in chips)
Seat 3: anuhoc (39880 in chips)
Seat 4: barr_b2 (17066 in chips)
Seat 5: tommi1212 (75950 in chips)
Seat 6: matt674 (93934 in chips)
Seat 8: 8count (19090 in chips)
tommi1212: posts small blind 1500
matt674: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to matt674 [6s 9d 7s 2c]
8count: folds
Mr_e_Joker: folds
anuhoc: folds
barr_b2: folds
tommi1212: calls 1500
matt674: checks
*** FLOP *** [3s 9s 7c]
tommi1212: bets 6000

so what's your move?

24 to go.

With top 2 and low flush draw I'm not writing home to mum, but the pot is heads up.

I think I'm definately going to pump it up, and definately deep enough to get away if things come back to me with re raisins on them.

I raise 12k more to 18k total (probably).

Call and see a cheap turn, if you improve then great if not you ain't hurt.

Not an omaha expert by any stretch of the imagination.

I was worried about a 3,5,6,8,10, J or club on the turn though. (The 3 and 8 more than the others)

Am I being overly cautious wanting to raise here? Also thought I might get bigger spade draw to pass.

It's hard to improve 'safe' other than a 9 or a 7

The raise to 18 - 24 sounds right to me. the turn is going to be tricky if, like Flushy says, you don't get a 7 or a 9.
You have to raise here if you want any real shot at the pot, if he doesn't fold to a raise here he probably won't anywhere.

Exactly, you raise he reraises you can't call.

On the flop i am getting this in, top 2 fd and backdoor str8 chances.

I reraised the pot and the hand continued as follows:

PokerStars Game #8427129385: Tournament #42679445, $8.00+$0.80 Omaha Pot Limit -
Level XIV (1500/3000) - 2007/02/13 - 19:10:49 (ET)
Table '42679445 5' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: Mr_e_Joker (31580 in chips)
Seat 3: anuhoc (39880 in chips)
Seat 4: barr_b2 (17066 in chips)
Seat 5: tommi1212 (75950 in chips)
Seat 6: matt674 (93934 in chips)
Seat 8: 8count (19090 in chips)
tommi1212: posts small blind 1500
matt674: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to matt674 [6s 9d 7s 2c]
8count: folds
Mr_e_Joker: folds
anuhoc: folds
barr_b2: folds
tommi1212: calls 1500
matt674: checks
*** FLOP *** [3s 9s 7c]
tommi1212: bets 6000
matt674: raises 18000 to 24000
tommi1212: calls 18000
*** TURN *** [3s 9s 7c] [ Td]
tommi1212: checks

so now what??

Now what? now you recheck your post and actually let us know what the turn was ;)

now you move allin or check (of course if you check he's almost certainly allin).

apologies, when i rechecked the hand history that i'd copied and pasted from the email the turn was in the text but it just said td instead of  Td

Yep it's do or die time. If you check here you will most likely lose the pot on the river ad unless the river comes down a 7 or 9 you can't call.

Checking is fine if you are thinking longer term and don't mind letting go of this one pot. anything else is a push.

The thing is if he called your reraise with the flush draw only it's fine ANYTHING else and you are likely behind now (or already were).
Is he likely to call just with the flush draw?
At this stage it really is a judgement call, if you bet you have to bet big or just let it go.

I'd play this had differently in a tourney than i would cash, cash i'm more in line with fushys thinking in that i'd bet the pot then push the turn regardless.

The dynamics are way diff here , your in a sb bb confrontation with the only other stack @ the table who can mutilate your stack, yeh your hand looks atractive on the flop here top 2 and fush draw but I personaly would fold this on the flop. 

The only way i can see you winning this hand on is for another 7 or 9 to come , I'd bet on it your flush is to small to win and your opponent has flopped a str8 draw to go with his 2 bigger spades. now the other reason i'd fold on the flop is i have the best position on the table to get tommi1212's chips and i'm sure i'm not risking my stack on a hand that might and probably wont win come the river even if it improves to the flush yeh you'll win if a 7 or 9 comes but how likely?

This is what i think happened , after your raise was called on the flop ( i check behind and give up the pot if he bets the river if no 7 or 9 comes) he checked to you and you went ahead and bet the pot he's like thankyou verymuch and the chips are in, he already has the str8 but rivers another spade to out kick you smaller flush.

So in short FOLD THE FLOP

JB

POT!


JB the thing you have to remember is his opps knows all that aswell, he would not be checking str8's as he is OOP vs th only stack that hurts him. I always chuckle in these M.A.D. situations of 2 big stacks in tournament poker, usually your opponent won't want to get into a big pot with you so use that to your advantage and play with no fear!

Bugger - i know i'm in trouble when i'm thinking along the same lines as flushy!! ;) To be honest during the tournament i'd only been playing the big hands or draws but when i hit i played them aggresive, with it being a small buy in tournament usually i'd find someone who was willing to gamble and my hands were holding up hence the chip lead. I decided to play it agressive thinking that if he had say an overpair with a high flush draw i didnt want to give him a cheap card. After betting 24k on the flop i couldnt really now put a feeler bet in so i decided to set my opponent all in..................

PokerStars Game #8427129385: Tournament #42679445, $8.00+$0.80 Omaha Pot Limit - Level XIV (1500/3000) - 2007/02/13 - 19:10:49 (ET)
Table '42679445 5' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: Mr_e_Joker (31580 in chips)
Seat 3: anuhoc (39880 in chips)
Seat 4: barr_b2 (17066 in chips)
Seat 5: tommi1212 (75950 in chips)
Seat 6: matt674 (93934 in chips)
Seat 8: 8count (19090 in chips)
tommi1212: posts small blind 1500
matt674: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to matt674 [6s 9d 7s 2c]
8count: folds
Mr_e_Joker: folds
anuhoc: folds
barr_b2: folds
tommi1212: calls 1500
matt674: checks
*** FLOP *** [3s 9s 7c]
tommi1212: bets 6000
matt674: raises 18000 to 24000
tommi1212: calls 18000
*** TURN *** [3s 9s 7c]

tommi1212: checks matt674: bets 54000 tommi1212: calls 48950 and is all-in *** RIVER *** [3s 9s 7c Td] [5d] *** SHOW DOWN *** tommi1212: shows [7h 8d Kd 7d] (three of a kind, Sevens) matt674: shows [6s 9d 7s 2c] (two pair, Nines and Sevens) tommi1212 collected 151900 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 151900 | Rake 0 Board [3s 9s 7c Td 5d] Seat 2: Mr_e_Joker folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: anuhoc folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: barr_b2 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: tommi1212 (small blind) showed [7h 8d Kd 7d] and won (151900) with three of a kind, Sevens Seat 6: matt674 (big blind) showed [6s 9d 7s 2c] and lost with two pair, Nines and Sevens Seat 8: 8count folded before Flop (didn't bet) I know it was result orientated but after i'd been knocked out in 5th spot a bit later i thought to myself could i have played it different on the turn - should i have taken the free card and possibly lay it down if i didnt hit on the river, i'd have still been in a comfortable second place with 6 runners left and felt as though i could have easily regained the lead and gone on to win it. But then the other side of me said, yes but you could have got him to lay his hand down and take a commanding lead at the table or even if the worst were to happen and have him call you with the better hand then if i'd have hit one of my 12 outs i'd have had more chips than the rest of the table put together and would have just beaten them to a pulp to win the first prize. Which then left me wondering which what i would do in that position if the same situation were to arise again because to be honest i dont know!! :(

You played it fine, his call is quite amazing!

lol yeah..of all the hands to put him on trips 7's wasn't it for me. That's a very strange call.

He had an up and down straight draw as well ;) (though it could have been a dead draw if i have J8)

Its one thing i have noticed about the $8 and $10 omaha p/l comps on stars is that players are quite willing to commit all their chips on just 2 pairs or small set even if a possible straight or flush is on board (i've even had players call with nothing but an overpair with no draws to the board) and because of this it was making me wonder whether the push was the correct move - i could have easily just waited until i had a better nut hand as a fold after the flop would have still left me with over 55k in chips.

Even reading some of the replies, some would push some would check/fold - i'll just have to wait until the situation arises again and just go with what i feel :)up

Not if he thinks along the same lines as you!!!

Was this your stars account Matt.
Make seek out Tommi "I can't fold middle set no matter what" 1212 on the cash games.

Sooo many people lose a fortune with bad sets and weak full houses online...especially me.
As far as I'm concerned he just couldn't see past his own cards.
He's probably the type that can't lay down AcAd in NLHE on a 3456 all hearts board either "he might have KK".
Did he chase non nut flush draws with 3 or 4 runners on paired flops too? They're my favourite.

??? On the flop or the turn?

Turn is a call for 777 here I would say as surely given the action he's only behind to 999?

I'm not sure most players are check raising a wrap oop vs another biggish stack unless they can get their stack in the middle. On the flop with 777 here I'd be thinking Matt had a made hand  or possibly some kind of big combo like overpair + fd the way he played it(obv wrap, pair + fd or soemthing is a small possibility), so I would feel in reasonable shape with middle set vs his range

Although the turn makes a str8 possible, I would think it's a pretty unlikely card to have improved matt's hand so 7s likely to be good still (if indeed they were on the flop)

Once he picks up the open ended str8 draw to complement his set of 7s on the turn, he's always calling with the chips in the pot.

I think you played it fine though Matt and were unlucky to run hand into hand vs another decent stack. It is also possible that sometimes he does pass middle set on the flop or turn, or indeed u hit a 9 or spade to win. Your hand is strong in a HU battle and the majority of the time you would have the best hand here and he would either pass the flop or pass the turn.

Matt raised with position. Not a check raise.

If i have 777 there then i am tanking it in on the flop or drawing a blank then potting the turn.

Matt has a wrap/fd combo draw on the flop here nearly all the time, so waiting till the turn has come down the complete a draw then check calling the stack off is horrible play.