blonde poker forum

Hi all,

I've been recording my stats for about a year now and one of the figures I don't understand is ROI (return on investment). My ROI is currently about 12%, what would be considered a decent ROI for a good player, and I'd be interested in other peoples ROI.

Thanks

12% is ok as long as this includes the rake (otherwise you aint making much). I wouldn't want to post my ROI and I am sure a lot of others will feel the same way- no offence meant honestly. 12% is decent enough depending on games/stakes you are playing. I would suggest you work it back to an hourly rate to see if it pays more than a normal job.

Thanks for that

The figures are almost exclusively for tourneys and SNG and include the buy in fee as well. I think my hourly rate is about $26 at the moment, but this is just a hobby anyway and if I can make a few quid playing all the better.

I started recording this stuff as when I first started playing I was definately a losing player but needed to know how much. Its just nice to know that my game as improved and I'm actually winning now.

To help give you an idea my ROI is 165% which i am very happy about, i spent a lot of time working on my tournament game last year and this and i think its clear it has paid off. It equates to $65/hr which is pretty handy ;-)

One thing to remember with these things though is the sample size, and variation in the tournaments you play. I.E you lose evrey tourney you play at $1 then win a $100 rebuy with 1000 runners, the stats will show a very impressive ROI, but you would still be -ev in future tournaments as you cleary are not very good!!

Always remember, lies, damn lies and statistics.

just clarify, is that 165% RETURN as opposed to profit, and I take it Woodsey means 112% return

165% profit, 265% return!

thats why I asked, 265% ROI then
my word thats high

the fish just likes BIG numbers... play me heads up for a week and we'll see that number drop!!! well only if u play at heads up triple draw a-5 lol... i here ur a heads-up specialist at holdem ;D

got to say tho if woodsey is just enjoying himself with a hobbie i don't think he should get too caught up on the stats of his results, enjoy it your having fun! If it's a hobbie that pays for it's self then thats brilliant!

Good luck!

At-iT

you've mentioned the UB lowball stuff before. I love the game but am relatively new to it. mind me asking your handle on UB so I can have a watch?

must admit I haven't been keeping records the last 12 months. fresh start today.

I play as Vidal83...

Its normally late at night when i can't sleep, its good fun tho! i like learning new games as i feel it increases your knowledge across the whole board! playing superstud with stu nash and paul parker etc was an experience, but one i felt i learnt from!

my my. Boy oh boy. crikey. cor.

need a backer?

I did keep stats for a while but seeing as Im playing just for a bit of fun I scrapped it because it takes away a bit of fun from it always recording after a session. I haven't been taking Poker all that seriously for a while now, think a break followed by a fresh start would be good.

Mine is 166%  ::)

Agree Ian if its a hobby then you shouldnt get to caught up in it.

Adam i just spoke to Ian on MSN and he said i should probably explain my results as others may doubt it.

Like i said 1 big result can skew your ROI, now i stay away from the large field events because i think the variance in them is too high for someone who depends on the return from tournaments to live off. I stick to the tournaments with less than 200 runners, sometimes 300. They are mostly rebuys but occasionly freezeouts. Almost always on the tribeca network, i.e. VC/BlueSquare

Now i did play the 25k about 8 weeks ago and i won it which bumped my ROI up a fair bit, infact if i take it out then my ROI drops to just over 215% this is still fairly high and i credit that to, an improved game/style suited to this style of tournament, and also to game selection.

The tribeca network is full of rebuy events, and quite often runs sats to these, if you are prepared to rebuy in these events when 1/2 the field isnt, then you hold a massive advantage, especially as you can take an instant rebuy. Couple this with the 15 min clock in these 'grand-final' events, which are the ones with sats to them, when a lot of the players tend to play the 8 minute events, it gives a good player a much bigger edge. And the biggest gain in my game i believe is bubble play, i used to listen to pros talk about it and think 'yeah it makes a diffrence but surely not that much' i now realise it does. To give you an idea my cash rate is quite low (i do bubble a lot) at 28%, but my final rate is 20%!!! That is why my ROI is as high as it is.

I hope that explains some of it.

I must give VC a try sometime

I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU

<<<<<<<<<< runs off to bedroom to sulk   :'(

Flushy has just saved VC millions in advertising

who's going to join me in torpedoing flushies ROI????

okay, okay. mine might be a slight fib.  :'(

thats why I say I'll have to try VC, I've seen some of Flushys play, must be easy pickings ;)

Can I include satelitte wins in my ROI? If so all I can say to 165% is pah nice try flushy ;D. If I can't include sats I will say well played sir ahem :-[.

is VC the same software/same players as BlueSq then?

Very good post. Absolutely true, the Tribeca networks takes a bit of adjusting to but once you have the right style then you can be a very profitable MTT player. I play it through Paddy Power and all my good online results have come through it. I spent a lot of time away from it playing on Pokerstars exclusively and while I won now and again and thanks to a $200 Sunday final I am well up on pokerstars, I played so many events with large fields and had relatively few cashes. The only good thing was that usually when I cashed it was a good one. The experience you get playing on a site like pokerstars is invaluable though when you come back to 'fishier' sites like Tribeca.

Of course no one can beat Pokerstars for satellites. 3 major event qualifications this year after last night!!!

james, are you talking only about the inital top up giving you a massive advantage or a willingness to rebuy through the whole rebuy period? (enabling you to play to hit draws)

Well played last night lucky. 3 in a year is good but still puts you 2 behind londonpokergirl and another blondite  ;)

Yes it is the same software... think me and flushy now play mainly thru bluesq!

with his scandi alias flushroyal!

Its willing to rebuy throughout the whole of the buyin period, alot of people use this tactic well! And are often at the top of the leader board in every comp!FuGu is a good example...

wow a lot of replys!

First of all Jaggers, nothing new there! (i hate you for beating me in the Blonde HU comp!!) P.S. BBC aint coming today so i may be up for Bolton.....

If you fancy trying the network out i recomened blue square, they have added money comps each night, most are small but the saturday 1 aint bad.

Ariston if you incude sats i think i would have to hang my head in shame! But that is my point exactly, stats can be misleading.

Adam, grrrr, after all that good dealing i did in Newcastle for you! I even tricked someone into exposing thier hand before you had called so you knew you would be ahead!!

LuckyBlind exactly the point, it is a diffrent kind of game to any of the sites i have played, i like stars but the game is tougher, although you get players calling all in with A5 there, they tend to stop after the rebuys, whereas on VC/BS/PPP they keep doing it all the way to the final!!

TightEnd i mean both, you will see all the good MTT players on there take an addon str8 away, unless they win the first hand (god i hate that) and continue to rebuy if they need too, the value is there... I once took 10, yes 10 rebuys in the 7.5k g'td 1 night @ $28.35 a shot, i hadnt really done anything wrong, just missed some big draws and had some hands cracked, even with just 6k after the rebuys i managed to get a quick double up then play the game. I ended 3rd that night for just over 1k.

Tribeca gets a bad rep becuase of a few things, like the payout structure (they only pay 27 places for any amount of runners over 156, yes 156 runners pays 27 and the 900+ runners in the 50k last night also paid 27! Add in all the old hendon forum crap about collusion/'dodgy rivers' and a lot of the better players have stayed away.

Gl to any of those who fancy giving it a go, i know At-It is playing on there more and more these days, and if you do look out for Royal Flush/Flush Royal and say hello!

ty, I only signed up for the GP qualifiers, now I'll give a few MTT's a go.

certainly made the hand easier to play. the good job dealing compensated for the shameless begging for sponsorship ging on at the same time

lol.

Just be glad i wasnt asking for free t-shirts!!!

TE you should, but give it time to learn to adjust to the game there, its a little wild!

Tightend $20 rebuy in at 3pm! don't u miss it flushy!

i need value lol...

lol i am already registered, not going to let u put me off with chat so i miss it again (as i did with the 2pm) incidentally Ian just sent me a hand where a guy commited a stack with JJ on a A22 board, naturally Ian had the ace, easssssssy pickings!

At It, what is the best one to go for in the evening?

not a 24 hour man of leisure!!!

The last good afternoon one finishes at 4pm and then they move onto speed ones! they are good but take some getting used to, Kev enjoys railing them!!!

But the $5000 guaranteed starts at 8pm and is $18 rebuy, i prefer the $7.5 guaranteed at 10.45pm and is a $27(thanks flushy) rebuy... this gets less players and less wanting to rebuy! Both of these go over the guarantee

Also the $99 rebuy at 11.40pm can be very good value! they guarantee $10000 and sometimes get very few players!

I like the comps but played the $50k and was very shocked to find only 27 got paid out of 900! i won't be playing it again! Very bad for anyone who bubbles as t is'nt a true BUBBLE!

At-iT

TE the evning comps range from a $18 rebuy usually about 200 runners and 10k pool.
A $27 rebuy about 160-180 runners and a $11k pool.
A $100 rebuy usually it falls just short or just over the $10k guarentee.
A $200 freezeout with a 6k guarentee, again can be short or clear it depnding on the day. The standard in this is SHOCKING, almost always americans only and they really dont care.
Another good 1 is the $36 freezeout with a $4k guarentee, plenty of fish in this 1!!

Try to stay away from the speed comps, 8 min 1's are ok but skill is less of a requirement, 12min and 15min comps allow play if the fields are bellow 200.

the 7.5 is 27 not 36 ian.

The speed comps do have tactics to them! check te finals and many names will keep popping up on them!!!

Sometimes a table move can really effect you in these tho!

thanks guys

go on then Ian, tactics for speed/turbo comps pls!!!

I have never, ever played one

I think I have the best record in the speed things and it is important you get chips even if you need a few rebuys. Later on in the comp do not call anyones alling barring monster hand and raise allin whenever you get chance in position. Keep your eye on the blinds you are attacking - too big they will sherrif you too small they will be forced to call with any 2.

oh i might have to write a full one on this!

firstly no suited connectors in these comps lol!!!

i'll write my tactics... and hopefully they won't be all junk lol!

suited connectors good while you can buyin, not good after. Late stages you have 2 choices- allin or fold. No tricky raises just bang it in or pass.

I smell an at-it article with very little at-it behaviour!

Definately alot of observation needed in these! watch the people playing... i always like to be first in the pot! but i love taking a shot in a big pot with marginal hands!

that is small pairs a10 2 pics etc when a low stack moves in for less or what the blinds are! aslong as i can move allin to force the other hands out

I can sense an article... it won't be the same with no bluffin

the one bit of strategy i use when playing these is all in or fold no half measures.

If someone can fill me in on a strategy for the express sats on laddies i'd love to know. I really like them even though it is the most ridiculous format for a poker competition. For anyone that doesn't know it's 100 chips, 1 min blinds starting at 10/20, 10 sec per move. Silly but good fun.

for any intrestead At-It is on the final of the 2pm comp on Blue Square, its only paying 6, first gets 1k. $2500 g'td pool, it never reached the 2500

Thanks mate a timely plug for our tactics lol!

then for that speed comp to see if my tactics work before i write them lol!

Anyone intrestead its quite a steep structure.

Pays $150-$200-$250-$325-$575-$1000

At the same time i am 1/45 in the 3pm comp. :D

Ian out in true at-it fashion, 85 vs a set of jacks!

out 4th for $250 not bad... never got anything resembling a hand, even for me so moved in with 85 and walked into jj...

wrth trying tho!

Flushy is going tot have to match me now!

Just had this happen, anyway i get away from it?

Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
MTT Table 4 4737614-82 Holdem No Limit 400/800
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Hand Start.
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Seat 1 : marsvein has $4,795
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Seat 3 : -kudos- has $32,550
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Seat 4 : Flush Royal has $33,825
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Seat 5 : fisheye has $3,860
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Seat 6 : bulltpete has $20,145
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Seat 8 : Thedriver has $23,640
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Seat 9 : eddyten has $2,450
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Flush Royal is the dealer.
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : fisheye posted small blind.
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : bulltpete posted big blind.
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Game [82] started with 7 players.
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Sep 26 15:07:33] : Seat 4 : Flush Royal has Tc Ac
[Sep 26 15:07:34] : Stakes: 400/800 Current level: 8 Level up in: 1 min. Break in: 49 min. Players : 32
[Sep 26 15:07:36] : Thedriver folded.
[Sep 26 15:07:38] : eddyten folded.
[Sep 26 15:07:40] : marsvein called 800
[Sep 26 15:07:43] : -kudos- called 800
[Sep 26 15:07:45] : Flush Royal called 800
[Sep 26 15:07:47] : fisheye folded.
[Sep 26 15:07:50] : bulltpete checked.
[Sep 26 15:07:50] : Dealing flop.
[Sep 26 15:07:50] : Board cards [Kc 3c Qh]
[Sep 26 15:07:52] : bulltpete checked.
[Sep 26 15:07:54] : Stakes: 400/800 Current level: 8 Level up in: 1 min. Break in: 48 min. Players : 32
[Sep 26 15:07:55] : marsvein checked.
[Sep 26 15:07:58] : -kudos- checked.
[Sep 26 15:08:01] : Flush Royal checked.
[Sep 26 15:08:01] : Dealing turn.
[Sep 26 15:08:01] : Board cards [Kc 3c Qh Kh]
[Sep 26 15:08:07] : bulltpete checked.
[Sep 26 15:08:08] : marsvein bet 800
[Sep 26 15:08:08] : -kudos- folded.
[Sep 26 15:08:10] : Flush Royal called 800
[Sep 26 15:08:12] : bulltpete folded.
[Sep 26 15:08:12] : Dealing river.
[Sep 26 15:08:12] : Board cards [Kc 3c Qh Kh Jh]
[Sep 26 15:08:14] : Stakes: 400/800 Current level: 8 Level up in: 1 min. Break in: 48 min. Players : 32
[Sep 26 15:08:24] : marsvein bet 3,195 and is All-in
[Sep 26 15:08:26] : Flush Royal called 3,195
[Sep 26 15:08:27] : Showdown!
[Sep 26 15:08:27] : Seat 4 : Flush Royal has Tc Ac
[Sep 26 15:08:28] : Seat 1 : marsvein has Ks Qs
[Sep 26 15:08:28] : marsvein has Full House : Kings full of Queens
[Sep 26 15:08:29] : marsvein wins 11,590 with Full House : Kings full of Queens
[Sep 26 15:08:33] : Stakes: 400/800 Current level: 8 Level up in: 1 min. Break in: 48 min. Players : 32
[Sep 26 15:08:39] : Hand is over.
[Sep 26 15:08:39] : 
[Sep 26 15:08:39] : Stakes: 400/800 Current level: 9 Level up in: 8 min. Break in: 48 min. Players : 32
[Sep 26 15:08:39] : Level up. New stakes : 600/1,200
[Sep 26 15:08:39] : Level up. New stakes : 600/1,200
[Sep 26 15:08:39] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 8 min. Break in: 48 min. Players : 32

 

I would think you could give him credit for half a dozen better hands than yours

I think its quite possible i am ahead here.

And its an 8k pot only 3k to call witrh a str8, looking at the size of the blinds i dont think i can really pass, but wondered if anyone here would.

For what my opinion is worth the board had three hearts on it and was paired, a straight was in dire danger. If he had similar cards to you, but in hearts, a boat would also have been stuffed.

... but I accept what you say about pot size and the overall blind size.

you cant Call there, if you're out of position you could be forgiven for betting out and running into it, but the all in call is a rush of blood surely

the mistake, rather than the river call, is the turn call. I know the pot odds look good for drawing to a gutshot, but you have to make sure your outs are live and they're probably not here. once you hit your 4 outer, it's no wonder you fall in love with it. also, just looked back at the chip counts and the implied odds aren't great as he's so short. that in mind, perhaps it was raise or pass pre flop?

He had a flush draw aswell so 13 outs (and at least 1 live).

oh yeah, didnt spot the flush draw
could of bet the flop too then

he was drawing dead on the turn as neither flush or straight can beat his opponents full house.

so basically, A,10 clubs.
I like the limp pre flop. too many people raise with it.
I think I'd have a pop at the flop.
having not done I would call the 800 obn the turn but only drawing for the flush. I'm not interested in the straight
with the J on the end I'd struggle to put him on a hand I could beat and I'd pass.

those who chase flushes etc etc

My mistake, thought it was KQ of clubs on board (giving him a chance of a Royal Flush).

how can you say you would pass on the river having hit the nut straight because you knew you were beat and yet say you would draw to hit the flush?

surely whatever you put your opponent on beating your straight would also have your flush beat as well?

because you cant necassarily say he had a FH. it could be two pair, set of kings, worse flush, missed heart flush
nut flush is a lot harder to put down I think

but if you put your opponent on 2 pair or a set of kings then your nut straight is still in front.......

personally i would pass on the turn, i wouldnt chase a draw with only one card to come which even if i hit means i could still be drawing dead but then only Royal Flush knows how his opponent had been playing upto that point in the tourney.

very good point, if my flush is good, so's my straight.

I checked the flop because a couple of the players were Short Stacks, if they have any kind of hand they are going to push in when i bet. I am hoping to hit a card and win a big pot vs the other large stack

I am suprised by the answers, i tihnk i would call again, he only has 4 bb's and he could easily have just trips or missed clubs, missed str8.

Anyhow i am now the CL last 7 so its worked out ok

I've said before, Im crap at following hand historys. I miss loads of info.

I wouldn't have played it like you  did but I can see why you did

Came 2nd in the end, major connection problems meant i missed half the hands!!!

Headsup i just went all in when i had the chance.

Ended up 2nd for $930, cost me $21 x 2 so thats an ROI of 2100%  ;)


More importantly i trumped at-it!

lol only cos i told you to move allin!!!!

hit a nerve with clive on the how many finals today clive? lol! He bites soooooo easy!

Well done mate and well played!