blonde poker forum

After hitting my dream flop i get re-raised by TAG villain. Was wondering how some of you guys n girls would play the hand and why? Will post what I did and my reasons after I get a few replies.


The Village 10474796-287924 Holdem No Limit $1/$2
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Hand Start.
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 1 : realdeal888 has $163.61
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 2 : luscos has $229.75
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 3 : Deggsy60 has $222.55
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 4 : sparred has $223.63
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 5 : Rotulla has $288.55
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 6 : teeth0697 has $119.47
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Rotulla is the dealer.
[Feb 26 20:55:37] : teeth0697 posted small blind.
[Feb 26 20:55:39] : realdeal888 posted big blind.
[Feb 26 20:55:39] : Game [287924] started with 6 players.
[Feb 26 20:55:39] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Feb 26 20:55:39] : Seat 4 : sparred has 9c Jc
[Feb 26 20:55:43] : luscos folded.
[Feb 26 20:55:45] : Deggsy60 folded.
[Feb 26 20:55:49] : sparred called $2 and raised $6
[Feb 26 20:55:57] : Rotulla called $8
[Feb 26 20:55:58] : teeth0697 folded.
[Feb 26 20:55:59] : realdeal888 folded.
[Feb 26 20:55:59] : Dealing flop.
[Feb 26 20:55:59] : Board cards [8s Kc Tc]
[Feb 26 20:56:06] : sparred bet $15
[Feb 26 20:56:14] : Rotulla called $15 and raised $30

The villain was a ABC player was only playing around 14% of his hands and raising around 8% of those.

All-in?

You're only behind to a set and higher flush draw (both about 60%/40% unless he has AcQc; 75%/25%)

Given that you're both deep stacked, I may just call here and hope to hit what is likely to be 14 outs (or 15 if he doesn't have a set.) If you hit one of those, then check/raise all-in on the turn. If not, then check/call unless the board pairs or his bet is too large- in which case you probably want to fold.

This way you're still fairly likely to get all his chips if you do hit but can minimise your loss if you miss. Of course he may check if you hit your club but most players are probably still going to bet and commit themselves to calling your all-in that should follow.

The other option is to just chuck them all-in as Alex suggests, although you have zero fold equity against a set of course. However, if you believe this player would raise here with just top pair then I'd go for the all-in.

(The calling option also gives you the opportunity to bluff at the river if he checks behind you on the turn- if he is holding a flush draw too.)

Ultimately I think it comes down to how likely you think his minimum raise is representing a set.

Excellent question by the way. :)

Only problem with flat calling is that if he has a big hand that is actually behind you AA/AK or  K10 (ur a 51% fav over K10) then there are too many scare cads that stop his action on the turn. Say he has AA and the turn brings a club or broadway card. He shuts down if he's a great player and you have a difficult situation with only 1 card to come.

If he has a set you are 41% to win the hand to showdown. Without doing the full mathematics, given that there is roughly $80 in the pot right now you should almost never fold this hand with these stack sizes.

Im not sure what the perfect answer is to this Q. I like to get paid when i have big hands by being ultra-aggressive and this means playing monster draws and monster hands with the same amount of aggression. So the way i play id go ai. But calling is a fine play too, esp if he is the sort of player to call a massive overbet when you hit the flush/str8 on the turn/river.

It would probably take me about a mille second to push all in here. Duno if its the right thing to do, but i usually peel one off on the turn or river.

He might fold, probably wont, but if he calls you have any club (except maybe the 8, if he has his set) Q or 7 to win.

Dont like the call, as i usually hit these hands on the river not the turn, and he can shove on the turn not giving you the odds to call, but if a club comes up chances are he wont put much more in.

Raise to 90 for me.
I don't like the flatcall as it screams draw so the re-raise will do nicely. I wouldn't mive all in as that a very big bet compared to the pot and don't know what he'll make of that. I am hoping he'll move all-in so i can call though :)

Cant agree Boldie, $53 Fold Equity if we push.......

Fair enough. But the oppo only has 38$ invested in the pot..he's not guaranteed to stick all his chips in the middle if we push..and I want his chips in the middle here.
Nothing against the push I am just trying to make sure I get a customer for all the chips.

Fair enough Boldie.

[Feb 26 20:56:14] : Rotulla called $15 and raised $30

Thought that meant that hed made it $45 in total. Meaning he'd $53 invested in pot.  ;carlocitrone;

Why do I read posts when I haven't had any coffee yet?

I apologize my friend, you are of course correct.

I like this play best of all. Purely because villain can now shove with top 2,AK or AA. OBV you dont back down on turn.

I like making it 90 here as well because it looks a lot stronger than the shove. Surely we want a pass now though, with his $50 already in there we don't want to take this to showdown.

I would be happy to take his 50$ but I am hoping he'll call/push. It really is a massive draw so am hoping to get all his money in here.

But you win more when he passes and your variance is less, if he calls its bad for us!

true  but like Alex said the Villain can come over the top withy AK/Aces etc and with the draw I'll take that on in a cash game.

Balls to variance this is a cash game where ill take any edge i can. Im praying it all goes in on the flop with this hand.
Its like the age old tournie/cash game toss up. Say you have QQ in the 1st hand of the WSOP. You raise and opponent goes all-in. By accident his hand slips and he reveals AKo. Would you call? I probably wouldnt given that i think ill get (much?) better situations to get chips.
But in a cash game, there is no ifffing or butting, i have the roll to deal with the variance and im a 57% favourite- not the 50/50 most ppl think this is. Instafucking call.

I was thinking along the same lines as alex martin and horneris, I really dont like the flat call here there is to many cards that kill my action. If I 3-bet him on the flop and he just calls it gives me a tricky decision to make on the turn. I went for the shove because im never going to that far behind and I wont have any more decisions to make (thinking hurts my head!).


The Village 10474796-287924 Holdem No Limit $1/$2
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Hand Start.
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 1 : realdeal888 has $163.61
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 2 : luscos has $229.75
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 3 : Deggsy60 has $222.55
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 4 : sparred has $223.63
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 5 : Rotulla has $288.55
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Seat 6 : teeth0697 has $119.47
[Feb 26 20:55:36] : Rotulla is the dealer.
[Feb 26 20:55:37] : teeth0697 posted small blind.
[Feb 26 20:55:39] : realdeal888 posted big blind.
[Feb 26 20:55:39] : Game [287924] started with 6 players.
[Feb 26 20:55:39] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Feb 26 20:55:39] : Seat 4 : sparred has 9c Jc
[Feb 26 20:55:43] : luscos folded.
[Feb 26 20:55:45] : Deggsy60 folded.
[Feb 26 20:55:49] : sparred called $2 and raised $6
[Feb 26 20:55:57] : Rotulla called $8
[Feb 26 20:55:58] : teeth0697 folded.
[Feb 26 20:55:59] : realdeal888 folded.
[Feb 26 20:55:59] : Dealing flop.
[Feb 26 20:55:59] : Board cards [8s Kc Tc]
[Feb 26 20:56:06] : sparred bet $15
[Feb 26 20:56:14] : Rotulla called $15 and raised $30
[Feb 26 20:56:20] : sparred called $30 and raised $170.63 and is All-in
[Feb 26 20:56:22] : Rotulla called $170.63
[Feb 26 20:56:23] : Showdown!
[Feb 26 20:56:23] : Seat 4 : sparred has 9c Jc
[Feb 26 20:56:24] : Seat 4 : sparred has 9c Jc
[Feb 26 20:56:30] : Board cards [8s Kc Tc Qs  Aspades ]
[Feb 26 20:56:31] : Seat 4 : sparred has 9c Jc
[Feb 26 20:56:31] : sparred has Straight AKQJT
[Feb 26 20:56:31] : Seat 5 : Rotulla has Th Td
[Feb 26 20:56:31] : Rotulla has 3 of a Kind: 10s
[Feb 26 20:56:31] : sparred wins $447.26 with Straight AKQJT
[Feb 26 20:56:39] : Hand is over.

Insta Shove

I like the way you think Alex!

Either i am missing something very fundamental here or all of you are.

Yes i don't mind getting my money in here, but i am preferring he folds. Lets assume for a second the guy has Ad Ahrt a hand that realistically can fold but if it calls we are beating. Now you don't mind it calling, you get more money in as a fave (55%) but its much better if he passes, you win more money if he passes, that is surely the objective of a cash game.

There is a raise to $8 and 2 players see the flop + the blinds makes the pot $19.

On the flop it goes $15 raise to $45, now when you tank it in you are raising $170 into a $109 pot (45x2+19)

If your opponent passes now you take out $279 with no risk, a pretty good result.

Now if he calls we play a much larger pot ($449) although we are getting 55.4% of this pot that only adds up to $249.

So our opponent calling here costs us $30 each time (15BB!) when you get into these situations you should be hoping for a pass not a call. It decreases your profit and increases your variance.

right, but the point flushy is making is that even if you are a 55% fav, you still want him to fold because of the equity already in the pot. 100% of the $70 (or whatever) in the pot is better then 55% of the $447 pot

After betting the $15 on the flop.. our stack is $201, if after raising, he folds to a push, our stack is $280 (pot is $79 at this point)  if he calls its (assuming AK/AA which is what you apparently want to call) about 57% of $447, which is $259.26. Your EV is higher when they fold, even though you are a fav.

edit: flushy beat me to it (as usual)

Excellent post Flush, you are completely right mate.

Great posts fushy and totalise, guess I need to start thinking more!

I mis-read it as a minimum raise too!

Yep. Absolutely correct that your EV is greater when your opponents folds. RF- Your method of calculation isn't quite right, although coincidentally in this example, your conclusion is very close. Apologies if I appear pedantic here, but that isn't the case as this calculation is significantly different.

To calculate your EV if your opponent folds then it is 100% of the pot excluding your raise. That is, +$109 in the above example.

To calculate your EV if your opponent calls, find 55% of the combined value of the current pot of $109 and your opponent's call of $170 and then subtract 45% of your raise of $170. I.e. (55% x ($109 + $170)) - (45% * $170) = +$77

So in the above example a call is costing you $32.

As the size of the raise increases, the difference in EV between a call and a fold decreases because the current pot size becomes less significant compared to the additional money in the pot that we have 55% equity in.

E.g. Suppose we had $1,000 behind us to make the raise with as opposed to $170 (an extreme example!) Then our EV from a call increase to (55% x ($109 + $1000)) - (45% * $1000) = +$160

oops you are quite right, in my defence i had just woken up!

Just had this exact hand come up in a cash game.

Holding QsJs flop comes 9s10s4h.
Action on flop went, i lead out, he raises, i re-raise............he calls.

At this point we have both invested $100 of our $200 stacks.

Turn blanks, 3h.
Pot is BIG now. On turn i shove, he calls, i river nut nut. I think he's a fav with 1 card to come on the turn (by 3%) (he tells me he had A10) but i think this is the best way to play this no? Opinions wanted.

Are you referring to the decision on the turn? If so then you have to assume you have 15 outs here, so you're getting the correct pot odds to call his all-in if he was acting first. By acting first yourself, the additional fold equity would make this a push for me.

If this was a full-handed table then make sure you add that opponent to your "Buddies" list. :)

But if you fancy your overs then 21 outs...

I like that post Flushy. A raise always looks stronger than an allin and it makes it obvious you are calling an all in, and that an all in bet on the turn is coming.