blonde poker forum

I'm not sure if El Blondie can help with this but as he's played one of these events maybe he can shed some light on it for us.

Someone recently told me that The Poker Den tournament had an £8.5k entry fee which means that total stakes are £51k of which £50k goes to the winner.

Apparently the £1k is taken out for the dealer but I was also informed that it doesn't actually go to the dealer.

Personally I cannot understand why anything should be taken out at all and thought that under the gaming laws a maximum of £50 could only be taken out per entry fee which in this case should be 6 x £50 = £300. As such would this charge be legal? or does the charging limit of £50 per person only apply to casino tournaments?

Anyway (for the life of me) I cannot understand why anyone would want to appear on this show except for vanity's sake and a burning desire to appear on TV and can't see how with such a fast structure can give that much advantage for anyone choosing to play. On top of all this you can't even wear any logos so what benefit can there possibly be for anyone playing?

So why should I be getting a bee in my bonnet about all this now that the series has finished (despite the current reruns)?

Well for some time now I have been trying to think of a way to help poker develop in a direction that may improve the players lot. For starters I think I'm going to set up a blog or website that lists all tournaments around the world under seperate headings and where players can comment on everything form the playing structure to conditions to entry fees to comps etc etc.

In this way there will be a database built up over time of all these tournaments along with player comments. Anyone connected or interested in poker will be able to post their comments including the organizers, tournament directors, dealers etc etc and then players can decide for themselves whether they wish to play in subsequent events at those venues

A synopsis of the comments can then be sent to the various tournament organizers who hopefully will provide a response and indication of how they intend to improve conditions for the future.

I anticipate that if enough people contribute to the blog with their comments and personal experiences it can hopefully have a very detrimental effect on future tournaments that were not very player friendly and hopefully bring about change for the better.

Any comments or suggestions would be most welcome.

I would love to go on it. For someone who has only played online and in British casinos, it sure would be an experience.

Hi Harry, welcome back!

It's true, extraordinary as it may seem, that Poker Den Do take out £1,000, which they say is for the dealers. I have no idea if it does or not.

I imagine Barry gives away the TV rights........

Harry

a) please post more, it's not as if you're busy or anything

b) how about making the blog/website part of blonde  (if this is out of order tikay sorry)

we have loads of posts here talking about tournament structures/soft play/rulings etc

Well, if Harry wants to do his own thing, fine, we wish him well, but if, by some chance,  he wants to work with blonde, we'd be delighted to work as a team.

I for one hope he does.

Harry

I think we had a thread about the Poker Den a while back. The whole thing stunk! Party Poker so much publicity without adding anything to the prize fund, what's new, and then had the gall to make the players pay a fee to play.

Now that TV is on the act big time they ought to start adding to the prize fund.

Good luck with the blog, and good to see you back here.

Oh and by the way, it was good to see you back at the Vic

Harry, brian wilson, the poker is so sick, only place you play to be on TV

you have great ideas, motivate players like myself and the players on blonde, tough fight but it needs to be done!

There is a balance, I need to be on TV as much as possible to get sponsor $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

But I dont need to give "myself" away. I have turned down deals for $200,000 plus because they wanted my shirt and cap + 10% of the gross!!!

Anyway, I would like to help, I think Blonde is in, lets make the poker world better, thanks for posting!

Brian Wilson
"the rookie"
2005 WSOP PLH WORLD CHAMPION ( No joke0

Where has Original thread gone regarding this??

It was actually written in the terms and conditions that £1000 would be taken out of prize fund. Which BTW is illegal All monies must be returned to the players.
It stated that it was for the "table staff".....LOL
Barry Hearn got paid by Party Poker to hold the venue in a disused store room at Leyton Orient FC
Party Poker added nothing.

Where did each £1000 go?  eeeeeeerrrrrrrm????? >:?

PartyPoker.com The Poker Den

EVENT RULES & PLAYERS CONDITIONS


Participation in the event is taken as acceptance of these rules and conditions.

TABLE SEATING

1.   Each ‘sit & go’ table will consist of six players in total.

2.   The organisers will select “pools” of invited players and online qualifiers so that all groups are evenly represented on each ‘sit & go’ table.

3.   Players will be drawn randomly to determine their seating positions and, once drawn, no player may change their allotted table and seat number.

4.   The deal will start at Seat Six at all sessions. Seats One and Two therefore post the two blinds.

GENERAL RULES & PLAYERS CONDITIONS

5.   All players should be present at the venue no later than 7.15pm.

6.   The dress code for the event is smart – Suits are encouraged. No denim, trainers, t-shirts, or polo shirts are to be worn on camera.

7.   No logos of any kind will be allowed to be worn by players at the televised table or during interviews e.g. Ralph Lauren, Nike etc

8.   Entry Fee into the PartyPoker.com Poker Den is £8,500.

9.   The game is No Limit Texas Hold ‘em poker

10.   Each Friday night six players will play until there is one winner.

11.   Each Friday night one winner will receive £51,000 in prize money.
   
12.   Each table will be filmed by “Matchroom Sport Ltd” and broadcasted live.

13.   Each player will start with £8,500 in cash. Each level of play will last for 30 minutes, and the Blinds will be implemented on the following basis:

1st Level   £100 / £200
2nd Level   £200 / £400
3rd Level   £300 / £600
4th Level   £500 / £1000
5th Level   £700 / £1500
6th Level   £1000 / £2000
7th Level   £1500 / £3000

14.   The tournament cash will be given to each player when seated at the table.

15.   The minimum bet will be the Big Blind in force at the time.

16.   Betting will be in clockwise order and must be in turn.

17.   Certain rules listed below are subject to a penalty clause. The penalties for breach of these rules are as follows:

•   First Offence:     A verbal warning;
•   Second Offence: 20 minutes’ suspension from play, away from the table. Blinds will be taken during such suspension;
•   Third Offence:  Players will be disqualified from the tournament and forfeit all rights to any prize money, should the offence occur when the prize money is being allocated.   

18.   A mis-deal will be called should the following occur:
   
a)   Where more than one card, that should have been dealt face down by the Dealer, is exposed by the Dealer;

b)   If, during the deal, it is discovered that there are boxed cards;

c)   If a player is dealt too many cards;

d)   If a player is dealt too few cards, unless the top card on the remaining deck is that which should otherwise have been dealt to them, providing the Dealer is informed immediately and no action has taken place in the meantime;

e)   For the purpose of d), above, “action” is deemed to be three players calling the Big Blind or any player raising the Big Blind. If action has taken place, any player with the incorrect number of cards can take no further part in the hand and loses all monies put into the pot.

19.   ENGLISH MUST BE SPOKEN AT ALL TIMES whilst seated at the table, even if the player(s) are not in the hand at the time. Failure to abide by this rule will result in the penalty conditions detailed in Rule 17 being applied.

20.   Any player verbally, or physically, assaulting any other person (be they competitors, staff or anyone else) or otherwise swearing, throwing cards or generally disrupting the competition, will be subject to the penalty conditions detailed in Rule 17 unless the matter is deemed by the Tournament Director so serious that the player shall be disqualified without warning.

21.   Players are not permitted to reveal their cards to other players during a hand, or whisper to them etc, Penalty Rule 17 will otherwise apply.

22.   Any player exposing one or more whole cards, where such a situation could induce or reduce action, is not permitted. Penalty Rule 17 will otherwise apply but WITHOUT a verbal warning.

23.   A player will have action on all the cash, even if it is not enough to cover a Big Blind.

24.   A player who has lost all his cash must leave the table immediately.

25.   An under raise will only be permitted if a player is declared “all-in” but, for the purposes of betting, this will not be deemed a raise.

26.   A bet out-of-turn stands. Play reverts to its proper order and, when it arrives at the out-of-turn be it, the intended or announced bet will stand unless:

a)   An earlier player has wagered a bet larger than the out-of-turn bettor, in which case he may pass;

b)   Any bet is less than 50% of the out-of-turn bet in which case the out-of-turn bet acts as a raise.

27.   A raise out-of-turn stands subject to the same conditions as Rule 26.

28.   When there is no more betting before the final round of betting, due to a player or players being “all in”, the participating players will lay ALL cards in their hand face up on the table before the Dealer completes the deal.

29.   On showdown, all the players are obliged to lay their hand face up in order for the Dealer to see the winning hand.

30.   On showdown, any player who throws in their cards face down will surrender all rights to claim all, or part, of the pot, regardless of whether their hand would have won, if seen.

31.   A verbal declaration has no standing and all players should retain their hand until the declared hand has been seen.

32.   Passed hands will be taken in by the dealer immediately. No other may retain the cards from passed hands.

33.   Players are not allowed to touch the discards.

34.    When a hand is won before the final round of betting due to no other player calling the bettor, the Dealer will not complete the board under any circumstances.

35.   Cards speak even if a player has made a wrong declaration, providing the hand has not come into contact with discards or been mixed with any other player’s cards.

36.   Players must be involved in continuous play until a break is announced. Toilet breaks etc, may only be taken immediately after the player has posted their Big Blind. Should any player not be seated at the table when it is their turn to post the Big Blind again, a small blind will be taken EVERY HAND until their return.

37.   Players will be dealt a hand whether or not they are at the table. A player returning before the action has reached them again may participate in the hand as normal. Any player still absent from the table when it is their turn to act will have their cards taken by the Dealer.

38.   Players are expected to win or lose with good grace.

39.   Any player felt by the table to be taking an unreasonable length of time when deciding to bet may be placed “on the clock” at the request of another player or the Tournament Director. They will be given 30 seconds in which to act. If they have not done so in that time, their hand will be declared dead by the Dealer.

40.   Any bet or raise made without clear intent does not stand. A player putting a larger denomination chip into the pot without comment will have it deemed a call bet only, irrespective of the cash they otherwise have in front of them.

41.   No “string” bets are allowed, unless the player has clearly announced to the table the size of their bet or raise. A string bet is deemed to be two or more (pound) notes put into the pot in more than one action.

42.   “Check raising” is permitted and is viewed to be a normal part of the game.

43.   Cash should be made clearly visible to other players. Any player has the right to ask another player how much cash he has in front of him without adverse comment.

44.   Each ‘Sit & Go’ will be played to its conclusion until such time as only one player remains. That player will then be proclaimed Champion. NO DEALS BETWEEN PLAYERS TO SPLIT THE PRIZE MONEY WILL BE PERMITTED DURING A PARTYPOKER.COM POKER DEN HEAT      

45.   Players and players’ guests will be subject to a search to ensure that no transmitting or other communication devices are concealed about their person. Persons found with such devices will be subject to immediate disqualification.

46.   Players competing in the PartyPoker.com Poker Den are required to permit the broadcaster to show their image on television without restriction. Entry into the competition is taken as that player giving their consent to participate in the TV coverage.

47.   The use of bad language is strictly forbidden. Players who use bad language at the table will be subject to the penalty conditions detailed in Rule 17.

48.   Players will be asked to give interviews and have make-up applied as part of the television broadcast.


49.   Due to innovative TV coverage, the event may be played in different conditions to those normally experienced, heart monitors may be used. However, players are assured that the security of the game will not be compromised by the use of TV cameras around the table. Every possible measure will also be taken to ensure that the concentration of participating players is not damaged by the coverage.

50.   Smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol is permitted during filming.

51.   For the comfort and consideration of other competitors, smoking cigars or pipes and the wearing of hats is not permitted in the TV studio.

52   The promoter reserves the right to add or amend any tournament rules as they feel appropriate. This will only be done for the benefit of the game and all contestants will be informed of such changes as and when they occur.

53.   The promoter’s decision is final in any dispute and will be accepted by all players. Failure to accept a ruling will be subject to the penalties detailed in Rule 17.

54.    £1000 of the total available prize fund for each sit & go will be allotted as a gratuity payment to the table staff.

55.   The players should always refer to the event by its title PartyPoker.com The Poker Den and make themselves available to attend press conferences and/or television interviews at any reasonable time during the Event if requested by the Event Director, Television Director and/or the Tournament Director.

56.   All consents under the UK Performers’ Rights Protection Acts 1958 to 1972, or under similar legislation in other countries of the world in connection with the Player’s performance in the Event, and the exploitation of the Players performance in the Event by any means and in all media including (but not by way of limitation) all forms of theatrical exhibition, television broadcast, internet, and video gram exploitation are hereby granted and assigned by the Player to Matchroom Sport Ltd.

57.   The Player acknowledges to Matchroom Sport Ltd that the entire copyright throughout the world in any film and/or video or other recordings of themselves taken or made during the Event shall belong to Matchroom Sport Ltd absolutely.

58.   The Event Director and/or the Tournament Director shall have absolute discretion to approve the clothing and apparel worn by the players during the Event and to remove any logo, image or words on the players’ clothing and apparel, which in the opinion of the Tournament Director contravenes the requirements of the broadcaster.

59.   The Player warrants to Matchroom Sport Ltd that they are able to assign all such rights and give such acknowledgements.

60.   The Player agrees to carry out any reasonable request by Matchroom Sport Ltd during the Event to assist in publicising, televising or promoting the event.

61.   The Event Officials, who would be pleased to answer any of your queries, are Andrew Pyrah (Event Director), and ‘Mad’ Marty Wilson (Tournament Director).


Rules 54 for the £1000 contoversy (contradicts rule 11)  and 13 for structure
Rule 47 was quite interesting as well, don't know whether you saw the first one LOL

Good luck Harry with whatever you do in the poker world.

51.   For the comfort and consideration of other competitors,.......the wearing of hats is not permitted in the TV studio


Will someone please explain how wearing a hat can affect the comfort of other competitors????

I have played a Matchroom TV tourney before and the top 4 finishers were told/asked beforehand to give 2%. There were 2 dealers and 1 director. If the same thing happens at the UK open that'll be $16600 ($5500 each) for 2 weeks work from the players. Are they paid by Matchroom as well? I wouldn't want to stiff the dealers BTW of course they should get paid and I'd be happy really to donate but it does seem that maybe it's a way to cut Matchroom costs if the players pay the dealers. At the end of the day I've profited from and am very supportive of what Barry Hearn is doing in the poker world but this is just something that has crossed my mind.

Barry Hearn is quoted as saying that he wanted to get involved in poker promotion because it is the one event he knows where the players provide their own prize money. I hesitate to say that he is cynical but it makes you think.

therefore Mr Hearn, astute businessman that he is, gets a free lunch...the players put up the risk capital, he freewheels on the back of it

and the players put up with it, because the exposure creates its own $ via sponsorship etc, notwithstanding the oppotunity to win the thing

Interesting stuff and particularly the rules for The Poker Den and especially the one about £51k to be paid to the winner and yet later on a mandatory gratuity of £1k being removed for staff.

Obviously this is the organizers chosen way of circumventing the gaming law regulations covering such things but it is important for the development of poker that organizers do not flout the law as it can only be detrimental for us all in the long run. (BTW I sent an e-mail to the gaming board about all this earlier today but will probably get a generic response saying that I neeed a lawyer to interpret the law for me).

I have no problem with tipping the staff but this would be a first in the UK as all other televised tournaments have nothing taken out of entry fees and begs the question as to why Matchroom don't pay the staff seperately and handsomely for their work and not rely on the players. It just seems to be a very cheap way for them to decrease their costs by a mere £1000 at the players expense.

I have set up a blog called pokerplayerpower and will be toying around with it over the next few weeks until I get some kind of acceptable format and basic framework from which to launch some kind of campaign.

We as players are desperately in need of a body or something that can help us move forward. It's just sickening to see everyone taking the piss out of us when we pay for everything and yet have absolutely no say.

Appearing on TV is important for players as it has been quite rightly pointed out that it assists us to get sponsorship deals. However we have to draw the line somewhere and programs like the Poker Den in my opinion do more harm than good.

To be honest and personally speaking I have absolutely no time at all for Matchroom events as they appear to me to have come about purely for the benefit of the organizers/promotor and all at the expense of the players. Particularly distressing is Ladbrokes association with Matchroom for the Poker Million Masters events. Ladbrokes appear to have gone out of their way to add prize money and promote poker via their sponsorship and interent site but their association with Matchroom is (in my opinion) detrimental to their image.

Nobody can deny organizers and promotors are entitled to make money out of events but something has to be done to stop this parasitic association. A symbiotic relationship would benefit us all and I sincerely hope that I find the time and energy to follow this project through.

Absolutely everyone here agrees with this.

How do we take this forward?

hey Harry if you need help with anything in this project (it is a big undertaking) then post on here and i'm sure some of us folks can chip in some time to ease the burden on you.
Ian

Tight this takes a well known and experienced player to lead the charge, i am not saying he has but it looks like Harry has stepped up to the plate.

I will support with whatever assistance i can give, evreyone has said for a long time we should setup a 'players union' but the right person hasnt come along, if Harry is up for it then i am sure blonde will fall in behind him.

I agree guys, if Harry wants to go with this, I know many on  Blonde will be with him every step of the way

The tournament database is such a good idea.  Hopefully the casinos will listen to the comments!

If you need a mouthy one for the union, someone who isn't afraid to speak his mind I would be interested in helping with the union.

I'd help too...if anyone's prepared to do the legwork and hassle needed to start this, then they should be supported

Im in to help with anything Harry, maybe we need to "host" a boycott of a major event, go to a WSOP circuit event or a wpt event and get people not to play, better yet lets host a competing comp at the same time as one of these events in the same city and get people to play a comp w/ added $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Lets do it in the Bahamas in Jan 06 when the WPT is at the Atlantis, I have good contacts at the Crystal Palace Casino just 10 minutes away.

( only an example, just throwing out ideas)

Brian    4c 7c

Harry

I have emailed you about something else, but as always you have my support.

Union is such a bad word with the images it brings up.

Plus you would have to voice other peoples opinions Ariston not just your own.
 ;D ;D ;D

Yogi

Player's Organisation then

Band of Merry Men?

Here!Here!...or is it Hear!Hear!

Here is proof that party poker is rigged..........watch out for "Barry" to the dealers left!

http://www.billrini.com/index.php/2004/11/30/proof-that-online-poker-is-rigged

Loved this site, very funny.
I particularly liked the "seeing the world thru the eyes of a fish" one.......PMSL!!

Thanks for that, I saw it before and lost it, a scream.

Harry, I'm in if youre looking for recruits. its about time the needs of the player became priority