blonde poker forum

come on then how do we treat the big bad bullets  ac asp in 4-card omaha?

i tend to try a raise to encourage a reduction in staff and then providing the flop doesnt look to be too adjacent to typical holdings i fire a shell and hope for the best. - Should i just be calling with these hands, or only raising when i have a decent accompanying wrap? slowing down on shite flops?

come on help!

depends what you have with them!

you need a to be able to get a load in if you want to reraise... u don't hit trips very rarely ther good, i like to limp with them as you get paid more with them if you hit! i'm playin at the moment so i hope i don't lose it all with aces!

I do what Ian says, i dont play much anymore but when i did play it was the Blue Square game and they only ever raised with AAxx, it got quite amusing, but if an ace flopped and no-one had raised they never considered AA was possible, so i used to always flat call with them. If there was a raise behind then i might re-raise if it commits them to the hand.

But i am a Cash game omaha fish so be warned this might be utter bollox!

I only raise with them shorthanded or re-raise to isolate a player. Even a rag rainbow flop and you can come a cropper to two pair or trips.

this was'nt a bad way to play them but just as i could get a lump in preflop... only reason i reraise! oh and flopin the flush helped lol...

** Game ID 325373521 starting - 2005-09-29 18:38:09

** Thackeray [Omaha] (2.00|4.00 Pot Limit - Cash Game) Real Money



- 2SHOTS sitting in seat 1 with $306.69

- LLevan sitting in seat 2 with $0.00 [Sitting out]

- -moilanen- sitting in seat 3 with $343.50

- mirza sitting in seat 4 with $1178.25

- ShellFish sitting in seat 5 with $405.75

- bellchop sitting in seat 6 with $236.25 [Dealer]



2SHOTS posted the small blind - $2.00

-moilanen- posted the big blind - $4.00



** Dealing card to ShellFish: 3 of Spades, Ace of Spades, 7 of Diamonds, Ace of Diamonds

mirza folded

ShellFish called - $4.00

bellchop raised - $18.00

2SHOTS called - $18.00

-moilanen- called - $18.00

ShellFish raised - $90.00

bellchop called - $90.00

2SHOTS folded

-moilanen- called - $90.00



** Dealing the flop: Jack of Spades, 6 of Spades, 7 of Spades

-moilanen- checked

ShellFish bet - $260.00

bellchop folded

-moilanen- folded

ShellFish mucks: 3 of Spades, Ace of Spades, 7 of Diamonds, Ace of Diamonds

ShellFish wins $546.00 from the main pot



End of game 325373521

IMO aces in omaha are the easiest hand to play-do not fall in love with them its not holdem. No hand is worth raising with in omaha (according to Mcevoys championship omaha)  but if you can reraise and get all the money in preflop (and heads up)then fair enough. Aces need to have working cards with them (soooted or str8 cards ), you are likely to need a back hand to win the pot. Betting aces on the flop is very dangerous unless you have picked up a big peice of it as it is likely someone will have hit something. If I have hit one of my cards with 3 random rags I am going to hit a 2nd pair or set at least 44% of the time by the river (if you throw in str8 wraps/flush draws you are going to have to get very lucky to have them hold up). If you only ever raise with aces and you are known to fall in love with them after the flop I will play any hand against you virtually, knowing I can crack them and win a monster pot (I will see the flop with any trash if I am sure you have aces just on implied odds). Do what some other players do and raise with many hands and nobody will ever know when you have them. Aces in omaha are a trap hand and I treat it the same as any other reasonable starting hand (TJQK , 6788 etc) - If you miss the flop dump them.

This man talks alot of sense!!! why can he not play... ;)

Too much information in my bald miss shapen head Im afraid. I try things that I know should work on the wrong players. Maybe my play is just to sophisticated  ;)

Well, if you're going to see a flop, you have to be heads up. And even then it's dangerous cos, unless you've got a loose reputation, they'll put you on the aces and will be able to set a trap if they hit a set or 2 pairs. I've lost so much money overplaying aces in Omaha. It's one of those hands where you win a bit and lose a lot - unless you push them hard preflop.

If some1 reraises me, then I'll just let them go if I have weak cards with them. If the other two are stong, then I'll rereraise as much as possible.

It really depends on the stakes and type of game.

If someone reraises me and it looks like I am getting it heads up then the lot gets tanked in. They are favourite against all other hands in a heads up pot (providing you have a back hand). If there are more than 2 players to see the flop then you will be less than 50% to win the hand even though you will be getting more than 2-1 for your money. The only good flop is one with an ace on it or a small pair (22 33 44 on the flop your aces will probably still be in front your opponents are less likely to have rags in their hands). Any coordinated flop above six the aces should be binned as it is highly likely somebody will have a str8 or a huge draw. Remember omaha is the only game you can flop the nuts and be correct to pass, even if you flop boss set you can still be a dog to win the hand and proceed with caution.

Where's Ben? Still celebrating? This sounds like the ideal topic for him.

My most recent experience with AAxx in Omaha, I was single suited and managed to get it all in pre-flop - unfortunately against AAKQ. One lives and learns...

I find that if there's a reraise, more often than not, they have aces too. Therefore, if you have crappy cards with the bullets, you're gonna be dominated.

Most of the time however, I tank it in too.

I guess it depends on the stakes and the type of opponents you're up against.

If your up against aces even with crappy cards it will be a split 90% of the time. The real problem arises when you are up against aces and a 3rd party is in with you with a 6789 type hand. If you can get it heads up I wouldn't advocate ever folding them preflop nomatter how crappy your other 2 cards are. Always better to have at least one suited ace though.

Yeah I play very low limit stuff and the guy with AAKQ was a total idiot. I might have given a stronger player credit for having me dominated. (He made a Broadway straight to beat me)

It was one of those sickeners where I stupidly donated my cash to him, then saw him redistribute it to the rest of the table.

AAKQ v AAxx is not dominated. He has had to get very lucky to beat you. Omaha is a game where you need to be a strong player throught the streets IMO. I prefer to protect my hand on the turn when it makes it -EV for people to call with their draws. If I flop nut str8 or bodd trips I tend to not get all my money in if I can avoid it. My favourite hands in omaha are 4 card str8s to be honest, you get paid a lot more and they are far easier to get away from if you miss the flop. Gimme 789T over AAxx any day.

Yeah, not dominated in the sense of being outkicked, but he certainly had better options than me.

If I got into the same situation again, I think I'd take a flop rather than reraising all in. At least then I *might* have got away from it when it came down with co-ordinated high cards and no flush draw for me.

How often do you guys like to raise pre-flop in Omaha? I read Stewart Reuben's book and that preaches a really aggressive style. The only problem with that is raising to reduce the field is pretty pointless at the low limits, as they just call anyway!

I tend to go for lots of min raises, especially when I have position, as it builds a decent enough pot to give me some leverage when I hit the flop and want to make a big bet, and also disguises the true monsters. Presuming we are talking pot limit!

When I said dominated, I mean in terms of your chances of winning the hand. - which is slim to none.

In the games I play, a reraise is rare. What's even rarer is that they won't have aces.

Depends on the level you are playing but raising preflop is meant to build pots rather than thin the field. If the table is very passive and shorthanded I may raise a very high percentage of hands. If your opponents let you control the table you will be surprised how many pots you win with junk hands. They will slow play their big hands trying to set traps and let you hit your garbage, added to this is the fact then when you do have the nuts nobody will believe you and you can get paid. The other way to play small stakes omaha is to see plenty of flops and wait for the lock. If you are playing less than 5/10 pl you will not thin the fields with raises so build the pots and raise with more than just AAxx or you will be crucified. If you only ever raise with aces dont complain when I get you with my 3456 hand  ;D

thanks everyone. - of course i knew all this myself but needed to hear it from other players and in writing  ;D :D

excellent analysis - even ariston helped out with some intelligent poker comments!  ;D - thanks big fella, perhaps we should get another heads up challnge played at the forthcoming blackpool event? - see if you've improved any  ;D

Like all good managers I resigned after Blackpools loss to you earlier in the year. A rematch would be good but I think the new Blackpool team captain may not even select me  :'( If burnley John is kind enough to include me I will be up for this match with no distractions.

your on!

What a dealer you to had!

And at the time you did not even know he was a celebrity... ;D

(had to cprrect grammar and spellings for ariston) ;)

Good topic. It took me ages to get the hang of Aces in Omaha. I agree with most of what Ariston says here.

If I can get most of my chips in before the flop, then I will, you have to watch out for (AA v AA v something like 5678ds), but it will almost always be a lot more favourable situation than that.  If you make a big raise or reraise before the flop in most games up to lowish stakes (2-5 is as high as I go but its true there) players will put you on AAxx about 90% of the time. This is very useful when making min reraises with other hands or limping or calling with with Aces, which is what I recommend unless you can make a huge reraise and bet almost any flop. If you don't think you are winning on the flop give them up. My other favourite trick here is that if I make a small reraise with 6789 and no one goes over the top of me, then when the flop comes A x x, I can represent the AA knowing that no one else has it.

I have experimented with the super agressiive position raising style, but it only works in very specific games where you can isolate players and steal a lot of pots. Otherwise you find you just get 8 callers to your junk hand. I prefer to do something like play that way for a round and then revert to normal, opponents will still put you on junk. I raise generally to control pot size and to disguise my hand.

Not exactly the question you asked, but I think a very key thing to think about is playing against Aces as you can make a lot of your money in this situation by taking a flop against 'obvious' Aces and either pushing them off or busting them if you flop well.