blonde poker forum

OK so at least I'm not spewing chips all over the place like I used to but have I gone too far? Both of these hands I probably raise pre flop 75% of the time. I didn't cos steveylad is a bit of a maniac and was calling with any 2. thinking about it that's probably a very good reason to raise and isolate him but I was a bit scared of him TBH and just wanted to get to showdown cheaply with these overpair type hands.

I have noticed that some of the better crypto 2/5 players are LAG pre flop but then play very slowly post flop. I have been trying to copy them. If anyone wants a bit of coal turned into a diamond give me a shout :D


Seat 1: Forrest1 ($489 in chips)
Seat 2: slamastik ($635.60 in chips)
Seat 3: Horal ($1217.53 in chips)
Seat 4: RiggadFis ($484.85 in chips)
Seat 5: Steveylad ($502.45 in chips)
Seat 6: -Gotcha- ($583 in chips)
Forrest1: posts small blind $2
slamastik: posts big blind $5
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to -Gotcha- [Th Td]
Horal: folds
RiggadFis: raises to $20
Steveylad: calls $20
-Gotcha-: calls $20
Forrest1: folds
slamastik: calls $15
----- FLOP ----- [5h 6s 5c]
slamastik: checks
RiggadFis: checks
Steveylad: bets $30
-Gotcha-: calls $30
slamastik: folds
RiggadFis: folds
----- TURN ----- [5h 6s 5c][8d]
Steveylad: bets $50
-Gotcha-: calls $50
----- RIVER ----- [5h 6s 5c 8d][7h]
Steveylad: bets $50
-Gotcha-: calls $50
----- SHOW DOWN -----



Seat 1: Forrest1 ($502.50 in chips)
Seat 2: slamastik ($598.60 in chips)
Seat 3: Horal ($1200.53 in chips)
Seat 4: RiggadFis ($457.85 in chips)
Seat 5: Steveylad ($735.95 in chips)
Seat 6: -Gotcha- ($421 in chips)
Horal: posts small blind $2
RiggadFis: posts big blind $5
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to -Gotcha- [8d 8h]
Steveylad: calls $5
-Gotcha-: calls $5
Forrest1: folds
slamastik: folds
Horal: folds
RiggadFis: checks
----- FLOP ----- [7c 2d 4h]
RiggadFis: bets $10
Steveylad: folds
-Gotcha-: calls $10
----- TURN ----- [7c 2d 4h][Th]
RiggadFis: checks
-Gotcha-: checks
----- RIVER ----- [7c 2d 4h Th][5c]
RiggadFis: bets $30
-Gotcha-: calls $30
----- SHOW DOWN -----

Ist hand I suppose your beating 87.

2nd hand I think he's hit 2pr or a str8, so I'd prob fold.

I really don't like this style mainly because when I've tried it I usually find my self facing progressively larger bets with no idea where I am and vainly hoping that my opponent will check the next street...... 

With position, and a hand you think may be ahead but are not sure of then one option is to show aggression on the turn. (You will then check the river unless you improve.)

The main reason for using this move is that it generally allows you to get a showdown for a cheaper price that just calling the turn bet, and then calling the river bet. (If they have a monster that you are drawing dead to then they will usually either raise your turn bet/raise or hope to check/raise you on the river. If the former then you can fold, and you're checking the river anyway so they can't check/raise you.)

It also has the following advantages:

1. You can often get an opponent to fold a hand that isn't too strong but is beating you.

2. If they are drawing then you are charging them more.

3. If they are drawing and they hit, you will often get out cheap (because you will check behind their expected check on the river.)

4. If you do improve then you will usually get an extra bet out of them.


Examples:

NL $2/$5, Unraised pot: Blinds + UTG limper (with KJs) + You in c/o with KTs

Flop is Kxx (Pot = $20)

Blinds check, UTG bets $15, you call, blinds fold.

Turn is blank. (Pot = $50)

UTG bets $30

Option 1: Call the $30

River is blank. (Pot = $110)

UTG bets $75. You call, and lose hand. (Pot = $260.) Cost of Turn + River calls = $30 + $75 = $105

Option 2: Raise to $60

(He may fold his top pair here if he thinks his kicker is no good, or if he thinks your hand is stronger then top pair.)

If he calls, river is blank. (Pot = $170.) He checks, you check and lose hand. Cost of Turn + River calls = $60 + $0 = $60 (saving you $45)

(If he was drawing (with a hand other than KJs in the above example) then it's cost him more money, and if he did hit he is unlikely to get paid because he'll expect you to bet the river.)

I like Smart Money's post, some superb advice there.

Good poker players win a lot of money from passive players - something worth remembering.

On that first hand there is a reasonable chance that steveylad has a pocket pair. I wouldn't put him on  Ad Ac or  Kd Kc as he hasn't reraised (do you know if he flat calls with these hands preflop?).

 Qc Qd or Jc Jd is quite possible but then so is  2c 2d,  3c 3d or  4c 4d.

He could have a set, or a full house or even over cards like  Ac Qs. He could also be on a straight draw. My point is....you just don't know.

To gain info you have to raise. I would raise by about $35, representing a strong hand that I want action with. If I get reraised then I assume I'm beat and fold, having only lost $55 on the hand. If he calls, then I need to reassess on the turn. The  8d is a scare card if he is drawing so I might check here and call a small bet and do the same on the river. Any big bets and I'm folding.

Thanks for the replies. In hand 1 he had QQ and hand 2 75 for 2 pair on the river.

I am still unsure about this raise the flop for info line. flushy posted a few months ago that it's a bad thing to do and I have also read this by respected 2p2 posters, yet so many good players say to do it.

I think to be able to raise your monsters like sets on the flop for value you also need to raise as a semi bluff some of the time and also as a total bluff occasionally. this seems fairly balanced and logical.

With hands like TPTK and overpairs then you have this problem of getting hands you beat to fold but not hands that beat you. My standard line is call now. I think the show more aggression on the turn idea is a good one.

It's like donk betting I think. Most people will donk bet with a good but not great hand and fold to a raise. I think you are better off doing it either with a great hand or with a total bluff.

Anyway I'm still kinda fuzzy on this stuff so I'm very interested in anyone's thoughts.


Thanks