blonde poker forum

About the 8th hand of the night last night in the £20 F/O.
Stacks are 8,000, blinds 25-50, generally allows for pleny of play.

I have 9,600.

Everybody limps which is standard as the donks think that they have so many chips so might aswell play any 2. Pot is therefore about 475

Im on the BB with   Kd Kh.

I think i made it 400 to call (i knew someone would). 1 Caller in late position.

Flop comes  4s  4c 5s. The pot is around 1100, so i fire out 1000.
He instantly makes it 2000, and i call.

Turn is another spade!!!  3s. This obv gives straight options and flush options.
He makes it another 1200, to which i call.

River is  Jd.
I check, he makes it just 2200!!. I was expecting him to move all in as he only has about 4,000 in front of him. I have 6,000.

Im not sure if this looks like a please call me bet, or if hes just scared to go out.

I called. Ill tell you his hand and if i won or lost after people have offered their opinion.

If im being honest, i was lost in the whole hand, so played badly and scared.


What do people put him on, and what would people do??

I can make a pretty good guess as to what he had.  ;D

I think you made a friend for life there.

I dont really have a clue either, maybe  Aspades  9s? or mid pair possibly

Hello There.

The crux of this hand is the betting on the flop.

You raise a goodly amount pre-flop with a pair of kings and get one desirable caller. Everything going to plan so far.

Your opponent limped into a multi-way pot and then flat-called your raise. You must assume that you have the best hand at this time. You now own this pot. You are in the driving seat.

The flop is a good one for kings against a single opponent. You quite rightly fire out a bet to which he re-raises double??

This is where you must make your decision. If not...you will proceed to CALL his re-raise, CHECK-CALL his turn bet and CHECK-CALL his river bet. Hey, this is supposed to be your pot.

There are plenty of positive ways to use 9,600 tournament chips but calling and check-calling with Kings on this board is not one of those ways. It is always desirable to be the one asking the questions at the table. Put your opponent to the test. If you cannot do this then save your chips for a situation when you can.

My advice:

You have 2 choices.

1. ALL-IN - In the end you pretty much call all your chips into this pot. So rather than using your chips weakly use them aggressively and use them on the flop. So when he re-raises you on the flop announce all-in. This is your pot, you raised it and if he wants to play silly buggers and min raise you on a bluff or a draw then he better be pre-pared to pay for it.

If he calls then ok you may have the best hand. If you don't have the best hand you are not drawing dead at least. The important thing is that this is a no-limit hold'em tournament and you are putting the decision to your opponent. Will he call you on a draw after 8 hands for his tournament life? That's a tough decision, but not a decision that is yours to make. Good poker. This is considerlably better play than calling all streets as the cards get ever worse for your kings. At the very least your table image will be healthy. If you call him down all the way with the worst hand you will look pretty fishy.

2. FOLD - With his min re-raise I would be thinking POCKET 5's. The action thus far fits pocket 5's. He would take a draw card for 1000 on the flop if he was indeed drawing. If he choose to re-raise with a draw he would bang it up there and try and take the pot now. Min re-raise means the flop doesn't scare him. So if he is not drawing and the flop is not scary I am inclined to think he has flopped the boat. This is where you have to know your player and look for tells. If this is your read just fold the kings and live to fight another day.

Good Luck

Mantis

 

 

no need for anyone to post anything more after the above post really...

I call, and then say "i think you've got 67s or something"... And when he mucks his hand after you show your kings i wait for some abuse. :D

Were you there watching...?  You don't know how close you are!

lol, no i wasnt there watching. I have a read on hornmugfisheris.

Surely early levels of MTTs (High stake:blinds ratio) should be played similarly to cash games? In which case the flop bet is too big against a single opponent who has limp/called your pre-flop raise.

I think you can give this up on the turn otherwise I would prob play the same. i think his range has to be any pocket pair, straight draw or flush draw. Obv 55 is a possibility. A good part of his range hits the turn so let it go. Folding/pushing flop not great imo.

Can I amend my above post to include...

It could also be some clueless bugger.

Thankyou

i think he had T7 spades

Shoving this flop with Kings looks like a truly horrible play to me. Mantis you have written 30 lines and i disagree with nearly all of it. It appears you have read Super System way too much with classic views such as putting your opponent to the test and tournament life. It doesnt unfortunately adapt to deepstacked tournaments in the very early levels when you actually have a hand with IMMENSE SHOWDOWN VALUE.

In the early levels in deep stacked tournaments, passive play postflop with strong preflop holdings is perfectly acceptable.

Thanks for the feedback.

Firstly, I have never read Doyle Brunson's Super System. A bit criminal I know. So inaccurate read.

Whether you agree with my post or not is largely irrelevant.

However. If this is "classic" play as you describe and advocated by the world's most successful poker player there's little wonder you disagree with it.

Let me guess...you're one of those players that always get their aces cracked right?


By the way. Playing me. I put you all-in on the river. Are you going to call with K-K?

Dont really understand what you are saying. Sorry.

I doubt it, seeing as he wrote "In the early levels in deep stacked tournaments, passive play postflop with strong preflop holdings is perfectly acceptable."

(Unless it's against Daniel Negreanu's loose play.)

"By the way. Playing me. I put you all-in on the river. Are you going to call with K-K?"

Lol. I havent passed an overpair in approx 3 years. Good luck trying to push me off Kings. You may need a few cranes to assist you.


Or you could come play me headsup and see if it works?

I caught the flush on the turn.

obligatory heads up challenge issued? Check.

Of course. No fun without it.

It's not often someone bothers asking Dubai that.

Instacall

lol

Anyway enough of the banter already.

Let me make a couple of points.

Firstly, I do agree with Dubai that passive post-flop play is certainly an option to explore. It is a tactic that can pay dividends against aggressive players under certain circumstances. Personally I would be looking for a more inviting board than this though.

However, the crucial point is that in order to employ this tactic it is essential to know where you're at with the hand. If you are supremely confident that you have the best hand then playing passively with this hand is ok, if a little risky. You can then allow the hand to progress feeling confident that you are in charge of the situation. You are the trapper and your opponent is being trapped.

However, this is not how Horneris feels during this hand. She freely admits that she was lost in the hand.

My wife, who is an avid (and bloody good) player. Often gets frustrated when she plays big pocket pairs like this. Not really knowing where she is but not wanting to let them go.

Horneris asked fellow members for an alternative.

I think that whenever you are struggling to know where you are in a hand you should turn the tables on your opponent.

Rather than being faced with a series of awkward questions on the flop, turn and river, you should answer your opponents question with one of your own. By pushing on the flop you avoid putting yourself in awkward situations later on in the hand and the only person with a tough decision to make now is your opponent. You will probably kick off your tournament with a nice pot win, feel that you bossed the hand, and show the other players that you mean business.

This is an alternative.

Secondly, I am kinda new to this forum but do enjoy a bit of poker analysis. However, I have seen other posts suggesting that this section is underused due to fellow members feeling obliged to have a pop at each other if they think that person is "wrong". I think this is a bit counter-productive really.

I never want to stop learning and improving. By listening to other views, whether I agree with them or not, means that this goal is inevitable.

Anyway good luck all.

Time for a hair cut mate?

Fancy a shag?

 rotflmfao ZOMG. How embarrassing.

Yer tis time for a haircut, but its not that long!

(posted on my mates comp, by me, Horneris.)

Im definately not giving my kings up on the flop, id be peeling a turn and most likely passing to a bet then.


Information on the guys demeanor would be good. I think you can only beat a bluff here. Mind you people can play pocket 8s in £20 freezeouts like the villian here.

to be fair, I think posts like the above and the previous one are fantastic. There isn't just one way to play poker and they show a great deal of thought being put into them..well done on that Sir.

I agree with your first post. The action on the flop decides where you go here. If Horneris (or goldielocks as he is now known) had actively decided that he was in front to whatever his oppo held he could check call this all the way. I do think though that your opponent has to be a complete donk for that to work on a flop, turn and river like this. 90% of oppo's should have you beat here. Unless you have a great read on your oppo I reckon you have to be behind and fold.

Ok, VOTING IS CLOSED.

Thanks for all your reponses. The reason i asked is because he starting abusing me and my call for the next 20 minutes. "He cant put down a big hand blar blar". "He called even though he put me on a set".

To be honest i kind of put him on a hand like 77 through to 99.

But i dismissed these hands after his river bet but still called. In the end i felt like i was making a crying call on the river and wasnt happy being involved in a 14k pot with blinds at 25/50 with one pair, no matter how high.

But he has  5d 6d and i won.

if you had put him all in on flop then you wouldnt have to put up with his whinning he would be off tilting on the roulette wheel

Classic Dubai and Mantis here

Shame there isn't a "I quote whatever Pab's response will be and put 'This' beneath it" option in the poll.

Gold, so glad this got bumped.

PMSL,can't stopping laughing at this abs com epic bumpage