blonde poker forum

Micro Limits, a great place to learn NL Texas Hold'em at minimal risk. Learning the game while you risk no more than a pound.

Is all that's bollox, are they are really a big waste of time? Instead of learning the poker ropes at next to no financial risk, do they just teach you how to play a waiting game?
Can a poker education at one and a half pence/threepence blinds inhibit your chances of moving up, by instilling bad habits of playing dull unimaginiative poker that will never see you past a certain level.

How many big cash game pros ever started here with a £10 deposit that gave them a 500 BB roll that they nurtured like an oak sapling, or do you reckon most of them spent that £10 on a book, stuck in 200 proper knicker and just got on with at limits where the pot of the evening is actually is enough to pay for a Kingsize Mars bar.

In 13 years time, is $2/$4 gonna get real tough when all the 2 c/4c players finally move up?

the 1c/2c game thats 0.5/1p game which is the cheapest real money game on the net is good for bankroll building and teaching bankroll management for those of us that cant afford to put £10 or £20 on the net

when i first started playing poker sites didn't offer deposits with witch or debit cards and because i have never believed in credit i have never owed a credit card so was unable to fund an account

i built my roll through a freeroll win for 5.67$ i think i turned this into $100 playing 1/2c then opened a neteller account and moved it to stars i moved this about from site to site and my on-line roll was at one point 8000$ i started losing and the toll management i had when i was starting has helped me continue playing (i still wont put my debit card on-line even if i go broke)
since my bad PLAY/FORM/LUCK whatever i have lost about 6k but still manage to play on when i can be bothered

now i tried the its free money approach 1 site that didn't accept neteller offered me $100 into my account no deposit needed i gambled it up and lost then when events on that site came about i wasn't able to play if i had looked after my roll i would of been able too

the important lessons in 1/2c is roll management then you wont become like 88% who forgets to move down then is unable to play at all when they have a bad spell be it through bad luck bad play or a lack of concentration

Would all that time learning "bankroll management" (which you can probably grasp quite easily anyway, if you have the patience to play 1c/2c) be better spent learning (and I'm not trying to be rude when I say this) poker?

During the last 3 months I have been playing regular cash games for the first time in my life.

I'm doing several short sessions totaling about 5 hours a day of 3 tables, $1/2 and $2/4 on blonde. I'm enjoying the freedom that I get by playing cash instead of tournaments, and I'm making a little money, but what a steep learning curve it is.

I think learning at micros can prepare you as high as $2-4. Beyond that it is next to no use

In practice I think a mixture of books,forums, lots of play and a good amount of natural talent is required to progress


My question: does every individual playing poker, bankroll aside, have a natural level beyond which their ability does not allow them to progress?

if you can learn management then you can learn poker without risking your roll

otherwise you could spend 1000s of pounts learning and soon think the games not for you

most players spend alot of money learning the game

there own money but if you can build your roll up for nothing

then you can learn for nothing its a long term game not the get rich quick or got broke schemme

when i started playing i never said this time next year i will be playing the wsop

i said in  2010 i will win the wsop ME (bit of over confidance never hurt in this game)

now i started when stars  was still in beta testing and didnt know how big was going to get so i might have to change that to 2012 but the facts remain the same i am investing time into learning rather than money that the pros used to have too

Tom,

is this "learning curve" a great dark secret, or something you feel you can share with us ?

when i first started id put in $500 at a time and see if i could spin it up as high as possible.. sometimes it worked but i invariably always ended up going broke.. finally settled on grinding from 10/25c upwards and it worked out ok in the end.

I think to be succesful you have to evolve all aspects, in terms of handling the losses, handling the appreciation of the skill levels, handling the winnings (this is so under appreciated btw) and letting every part of your poker being evolve like the growing of an acorn to an oak tree.. learning while you progess. It also lets you learn through your own play rather then being some cookbook dude like all these harrington clones that play in tournaments... and i think learning through experience is better then taking the poker-by-numbers approach that most books advocate.


yes this is the peter principle in effect.. its not just ability either, its how much you can handle losing/winning at certain levels. .I dont think i would ever play higher then 25/50 for an extended period because the thought of losing £5,000 in one hand is too much to stomach, irrespective of the size of my bankroll.

Online cash is a new discipline for me Laz, and I'm probably not qualified to pontificate just yet, but you know me, I'm not shy, and I've never been one to let little things like lack of knowledge or ability prevent me from having my say.

Brace yourself, a deluge of delusional wisdom will follow....

ok tank i will do a tank style blogg at micro limits

i currently have 45.33$ on blonde i was going to ship some roll over from neteller bu i will leave it there just now

i am a total hobby player and can goes months at a time between games

i also prefer playing plo8 as a cash game when i do play cash (i started on cash and then stopped)

i will play within stict bankroll constrants and never buy in to an MTT ot STT for more than 5% of my roll

i will try and put in 5+ hours a week (remember this is a hobby) someweeks i will do more someweeks i will do less

after each session i will publish the time played and the current bankroll

the aim is to build a bankroll of 2k+ as quickly as i can without turning the game into an obsession and kept as a hobby

I saw that Al Gore film though, the next Ice Age is expected within 200 years, what are you going to do then?

I just think that swinging between pounds and hunderds of pounds is not going to teach you how to cope with swinging between thousands and hundreds of thousands. (or anywhere in between)

ok i forgot to mention i will only be playing 1 table at a time

i will have 2000k$ before the end of the year even running as bad as i am running

ps my blonde username is IronsideBL you can find me on the 1/2c table now

All the best with it.

I have to say for me the Micro debate is two fold.

Cash I side on it destroyed my game, I started my Cash career on Micro limits and I feel it taught me many things and ingrained some things that have spoilt my game, and have taken a long time to unlearn now I have moved up.  Waiting for a spot, playing your big hands is not enough IMO.  And this is the two big things it teaches you.  As for short handed forget about it, I read a post from Pab I think, not so long back about the day he learnt to raise in a certain position with any two cards, and how it was like a light going on, for me it brings a cold shiver.  All I believe, because now years later I cannot break the chains of the lessons learnt from Micro limits.  Full ring I have made some massive steps, don't get me wrong I'm no shark but I do believe that it was Micro Limit games that extended my learning curve by quite some time.

Now STT's and Multi's I believe micro limits ingrained things in me that are good still today.  Position, stack size appreciation, fold equity, gears, bubble play can all be learnt at lower levels and are still very important.  True people have less respect for the chips in front of them potentially, because of how much they cost, but for me STT's and Multi's are all about putting yourself at the best statistical and tactical advantage something you can attempt at any level.
Oh and one proviso, if you are a fish at one or all the main disciplines above, its cheaper to be a fish at Micro limits as my sharkscope shows.  But I guess potential return is what drives some/most/all of us.  Thankfully Cash allowed me to grow a bankroll rather then donk my MTT wins off on STT's for ever more, but looking back wish I had taken the plunge at a higher level.

1 hour play $1.55 profit bankroll is $47.08 gonna play the freeroll later a  win there will really get me going

BTW i know this is below the minimum wage but is a hobby and not meant to be supplementing my income and anyway i don't like tossing burgers

Now that's a good question that's hard to answer.  It's difficult to tell if I'm capable at cutting it at the higher stakes because I can't afford to find out.  In the tourneys that I have played at a high level ,or what I consider to be a high level for me, I think I've held my own, but I don't have the bankroll to be playing at higher levels all the time and those I have played in, I've qualified for (Mansion $100ks, $475 EPT final sat).  At the lower levels where I ply my trade, I not only have to contend with people that don't appreciate outs and therefore are happy to play with anything that looks pretty, but also with the larger fields.  Tourney at my level on Stars have anything from around 1000 players upwards in them.   If I was playing $100 tourneys as a regular thing, I wouldn't have to contend with most of that.

As for grinding it at micro limits - it's not for me.  I'd get bored to easily and I can't take 10c pot seriously enough and I fail to see what you can learn doing it.  It may be good for building bankrolls for nothing, but as for the game itself, it's just not for me.  I think you should play at a level where the money means something to you if you lose it all, but likewise, not to be playing with money you can't afford to lose.  I don't play high stakes myself, but when I sit at a cash game with between $50 and $100, or play in a tourney that costs me maybe even just $10, that's an amount worth caring over for me, but it's got to mean something in my humble opinion.

$1.55 for an hour.  I know profit is good and at least it's not a loss and you are enjoying it, but why not move up a bit.  Even moving up but to a limit game would be better wouldn't it?  Take $10 and sit on a $0.25/$0.50 limit game, you'll make more money in an hour, even if it's just taking a two small pots.

the difference is if i lose 2 pots in the 25/50 game i could end uplosing half the roll i am starting with

i plan on moving you to a bigger game once i  buld the roll up a little there is no rush in getting to the big games they will still be there

just had a look at who many tables are on the go at 1/2c over 70 of them most of them will proberly be playing for fun and have no idea what they are doing it shouldnt be too hard playing a few hours a week to move up to 5/10 quickly

awefully nice of you :D

Good post Silo.