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Iam a massive believer in fate.

me to

No - not in the slightest.

I'm a believer in science.  So no - fate would go against what I understand about maths and physics.

However, I do believe that some people appear to be inherently lucky, but that's something else completely.

thats just mathematically logical.. if everyone got the same amount of luck, thats when I'd think the universe was rigged

Of course, chance means some people will have more luck than others.  But i was referring to the fact that some people can 'earn' their luck.  Chance favouring the prepared and all that and being ready to make the most of your luck, etc.

Is believing in fate not akin to believing the universe is rigged?

Yes, it does say that in my book.  It also goes against my understanding of quantum physics, and as such goes against my understanding of things.

I don't know anything about quantum physics, but I do believe in freedom of choice and cause and effect, so that rules fate out for me.

Yes, it does say that in my book.  It also goes against my understanding of quantum physics, and as such goes against my understanding of things.

I also don't believe that there's "one right person - the perfect partner" out there.  I've found a brilliant wife who I know I'm going to spend the rest of my life with.  But if we hadn't met (by chance), then I'd have found someone else - and hopefully they'd have been as compatible and wonderful.  But that's different to fate.

OMG dont let your missus see that, mine would go mental if i said there was someone just as perfect for me out there that wasnt her!

And to answer original q no i dont believe it fate. I find the trouble with it is it gives too many people excuses to give up!.
i.e if they fail then they say 'oh well it wasnt me to be' but my attitude is never say die and have another go and another go until you do get it. It makes you such a stronger person, in a fight, in your career and just in general day to day life.
You have to have that dog in you and i believe fate takes that out of a person.

No one person is any luckier or unluckier than anyone else. Different people may have been luckier/unluckier than others at different times (however you choose to judge luck) but that has no bearing on future events.

How someone conducts themselves will generally have an impact on what happens to them in the future. E.g. You would expect that a generous, altruistic person would generally be more likely to experience favourable situations because other people would be more keen to present them with those situations rather than offer opportunities to a less kind and caring person. Likewise, a smart, dedicated, hard-working person is going to give himself the best opportunity to, say, build a successful business. It wouldn't be fate though. There is no such thing as fate per se.

A lottery winner has simply been very lucky.

 I don't subscribe to it personally, but occasionaly use it as an excuse for ungentlemanlike bodily functions.

It happened for a reason  :)

poppycock

OK, I know what I think, I just don't know how to put it into words.

As far as i can see, it doesn't matter if what we choose to call fate exists or not. Something is going to happen. Call it fate, call it sloob, call it nothing, something is going to happen, even if that something is nothing.

It's the same as reincarnation. It doesn't matter wheather it exists or not. When someone dies, a baby, or a cat, or a goldfish will be born somewhere. It doesn't matter if you call it reincarnation or not, the person who died and the newborn have no knowledge of each other anyway.

The world of quantum physics - which I don't profess to have much knowledge about - is utterly fascinating. It takes "smallness" to another level entirely, gravity does not exist, all the laws of "normal" physics are broken, & the absolutely weirdest things happen, in a world where the "smallness" is quite beyond our imagination.

A gentleman named Bohr - a Dane - first coined the phrase "quantum leap", & eventually earned himself a Nobel Prize in the early 20's - a year after a certain Mr Einstein got his in fact.

Bohr hypothesised - correctly, it seems - that an electron moving between orbits could disappear from one orbit, & re-appear in another - without visiting, or passing through, the space between! Electrons are, apparently, at the same time, everywhere, & nowhere.

Did I learn all this at school? I wish! Throw away your trash fiction books, & buy a copy of  "A Short History of Nearly Everything" by Bill Bryson. (God Bless Thewy for buying me that one Christmas). It may be the best book ever written, & it is certainly one of the best. Read it & be awe-struck by the miracle of life & our Universe.

Then read "DNA" by James Watson, and see it explain how the complexity of plants & animals & human beings came to be - DNA is another subject where the degree of "smallness" is incomprehensible. The size of the human genome is 3,100 million base pairs. Impressive? Not if you are a humble onion, which has SIX TIMES more, at 18 million base pairs, a newt has TWENTY EIGHT times more, at 84 million, & that little amoeba you have all read about has - wait for it - 670,000 million Base Pairs.

Now that's fate. Or is it?

Fate

A fascinating subject - and definately one to be discussed while drunk , just like "where did everything begin?" and "what happens if you keep travelling in one direction (space I mean), it must end somewhere", but I digress.

As for beleiving in Fate, yes I do.

How many times have you heard people go on about what would/wouldnt of happened to them if they did/didnt do something on a specific day?
ie, you happen to miss your flight, and the plane crashes?
or, you are delayed on a journey, or you get away earlier than planned, and by doing so, you miss an accident that you probably would of been involved in?
or, if I did not go into that club at that particular time, I would not have met her.

Hope I have made sense.

BTW, the "where did it all begin" is my favorite one, think I will start a thread, it truely is fascinating.

interesting question that i think probably gets a different answer from me depending on how I'm feeling. Life is about opportunities that present themselves and what we make of them. the romantic in me would love to say i believe in fate 100% but the cynic would say, life is what we make it. one to ponder a little more me thinks:)

I'm a beleiver in fate, destiny whatever you want to call it but then I am a sad lonely old woman lol

i believe in Father Christmas and i believe the children are our future.

What is fate?

Do those of you who say you believe in it honestly think you can't influence your own future?

And Tikay is right about quantum physics - it's totally bonkers and completely defies common sense. And yet has produced some of the most accurate results in the history of experimental science.

I believe in fate.

Years ago I decided to return home early from a caravan hoilday with my parents, I don't know why but when I got home my brother was throwing a house party.  My ex boyfriend was there and we ended up going back out with each other.  That was 19 years ago and we are still together.  

I didn't say fate was good though. rotflmfao rotflmfao

Only kidding, been a brilliant 19 years.

I've always had a laymans interest in physics although I thought that the most interesting stuff was out in space and that the study of the wee stuff was a bit mundane until I read a bit about quantum physics. Have to say it is mind-blowing stuff (I posted a link in the youtube thread that has a good wee video on it). On a similar note there is a really good book written by a guy called Edwin A. Abbott in 1884 that does a great job of explaining the concept of dimensions in a way that makes it really easy to pick up. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Flatland (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Flatland) worth a read if that kind of thing floats your boat.

i know its paradoxical but i believe that in the present you have freedom of choice but in the long run what will be will be.

If that was the "wave particle" Video, yes, it was superb, & mind-blowing.

I read somewhere that they ran two versions of the same experiment with the results running into 2 computers. On one computer they stored the results and on the other they were deleted as they arrived. It turns out that they got the interference pattern on the 'deleted' one and the single band on the other. Which as far as I can work out shows that the electron not only knows if it is being observed now but if it will have been observed in the future. Which just melts my noggin. Only thing is I've not got the greatest confidence in the source and I love to find some confirmation of whether this was true or not.

I do believe in fate, but wonder how much of my belief in fate means that things happen because of my belief. As an example I first met my wife something like ten years before we dated. At the time I bottled it and didn't ask her out.  ::)When we met again ten years later I thought it was fate and asked her out.

I believe in karma, you reap what you sew.

Fate ?   well pretty much yes, i believe that everything happens for a reason and this belief (as well as a belief in karma) has carried me through some turbulent times in my life.

well don't let your karma run over his dogma.

...it would be catastrophic.


Fate is intertwined with a belief that things are pre-destined.  For fate to be 'true', every small part, of every small system would need to know what the others were doing at every moment.  This is a ludicrous idea, and so I don't believe in fate.

Surely if you believe in luck then that contradicts your belief in science?

Absolutely not.  Luck is the result of an unpredictable or unknown event.  You might be able to influence it, or improve your chances of the 'luck' producing a favourable outcome for you - but it's all within scientific logic.

I'm a massive believer in luck - and a believer that if it comes your way, you make the most of it.  Poker contains a large element of luck, but with the correct application of maths and strategy you can try and make the probability of events favouring you higher by making them less unpredictable or unknown.  You can shove all in pre-flop  with 72o and win the hand with luck, but you're more likely to win with AA.  The final outcome still contains elements of luck as the outcome is not pre-determined.

Luck, probabilty, chance, uncertainty.  All part of science.

A thread on Fate and another on God v Evolution on the same day... I hate to say it, but it must of been fate.

Apologies, that was not my intention at all, I have debated that topic many many times (mostly while drunk this is true.....) but weather your belief is God or Evolution does not matter, where did THEY come from? THAT is the debate

This has all gone abit deep for me.

The reason I posted in the first place was because..

I see very little of my parents,even tho they only live a 20 minutes away from me,not because we have fallen out with them, it's just the way it is.My Dad worked really hard when we were  kids and to be honest, he really did not have alot of time for my Mum or us kids and now seems to be making up for lost time with my Mum taking her here there and everywhere.

Over the last few months the children and I have bumped into them all the time,all down to because .. I moved the car from one carpark to another,went back to the car because I had left the sunroof open,was somewhere I shouldn't be, but was just because an ATM was out of action!

I say to the girls "that's fate" we would have never seen them if we hadn't moved the car etc...

I don't really know why things happen,but I'm sure they happen for a reason,as alot of you know we lost a son (Sam) aged 3 weeks,it was the worst time in our lives as am sure you can all imagine.

I became pregnant very shortly after we lost Sam,and all the cynical people said it is too soon!!

I think fate took its hand,and gave us jazz,she is 10 now!!

I thank you all for your views

And I hope you have found it an intresting debate


Take care now
Shelly xx

I believe in fate, definitely.

I was due to go on holiday in December 2000 with my Mum and Sister, but I really didn't want to go so Mum booked a different holiday to go to Malta in April 2001 instead. That's where I met Leon, who I have been with for 6 years now and I believe that is fate.

It seems to me that the question is more about how you define fate rather than if you believe in it.

Poppet goes on Holiday and meets someone, she calls it fate. If she goes on the original Holiday she meets someone different, but 6 years later she still calls it fate.

Yeah, no one has explained to me exactly what fate is. It seem to be 'something which happens which leads to something else happening', which is just cause and effect (which of course I know exists).

From dictionary.com (the definitions at 2 and 3 sum up my understanding of fate):

fate      /feɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[feyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, fat·ed, fat·ing.
–noun 1. something that unavoidably befalls a person; fortune; lot: It is always his fate to be left behind. 
2. the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time: Fate decreed that they would never meet again. 
3. that which is inevitably predetermined; destiny: Death is our ineluctable fate. 
4. a prophetic declaration of what must be: The oracle pronounced their fate. 
5. death, destruction, or ruin. 
6. the Fates, Classical Mythology. the three goddesses of destiny, known to the Greeks as the Moerae and to the Romans as the Parcae. 
–verb (used with object) 7. to predetermine, as by the decree of fate; destine (used in the passive): a person who was fated to be the savior of the country. 


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[Origin: 1325–75; ME < L fātum utterance, decree of fate, destiny, orig. neut. of fātus, ptp. of fārī to speak]


—Synonyms 1. karma, kismet; chance, luck. Fate, destiny, doom refer to the idea of a fortune, usually adverse, that is predetermined and inescapable. The three words are frequently interchangeable. Fate stresses the irrationality and impersonal character of events: It was Napoleon's fate to be exiled. The word is often lightly used, however: It was my fate to meet her that very afternoon. Destiny emphasizes the idea of an unalterable course of events, and is often used of a propitious fortune: It was his destiny to save his nation. Doom esp. applies to the final ending, always unhappy or terrible, brought about by destiny or fate: He met his doom bravely. 7. foreordain, preordain.

Cheating, the copy-and-paste way


By Michael A. Fredericks



LET’S face it, people do cheat, and sometimes by blatantly plagiarising someone else’s work.

And it seems like it has been going on forever. From paraphrasing a school report, to copying, in verbatim, a catchy phrase simply to increase their chances of winning a slogan contest, it seems that when it comes to cutting creative corners, people can be quite ingenuous.

But while cheating in itself is nothing new, the method by which it is done has changed with the times.

The Internet, regarded as the most invaluable source of information, is also now the most invaluable source of information for cheaters.

Jonathan Wong and Selva Gopal (not their real names), both 29, know how easy it is to plagiarise simply by pointing and clicking.

They know because they’ve done it before.

"The Internet has made it easier for me as a student," says Jonathan, an engineering graduate currently doing his MBA in marketing, in a recent telephone interview.

"If I have an assignment, all I need to do is get on the Web and do a simple search. Then when I find what I want, I simply print it out. From there half the work is already done."

But Jonathan maintains that he does not simply insert his name and pass the whole article/ essay off as his own. He says: "When I come across an article that is suitable, I’ll read through it and cut-and-paste the information that I require.

"If the information is a common idea, I’ll sometimes leave it as it is, word-for-word. If it is technical, I’ll paraphrase.

"More often than not, the end product is a combination of a few different articles," he says.

So fate means that you have no free will? Your life is a rollercoaster into which you are strapped in with no say in where it goes? That can't be right.

It seems to me that people who believe in fate are akin to someone who asks you to think of a number and when you say 'five' (for example), they say 'I knew you were going to say that'.

ah ha

no then

A wise man said "Life's a journey, not a destination"

no control, no fate or destiny, just a random swirling ride. Get the best out of it you can rather than wait for fate, destiny or deity to hand you anything.

OF COURSE IT EXISTS!!!!!

I remember them from a while back (primary school days) - always used to come back with pots of home made jam, yum yum :)

There was an article in the Guardian in Ben Goldacre's Bad Science column on Saturday which dealt with the average person's ability to see patterns between events which are actually random and unconnected.

http://www.badscience.net/?p=404 (http://www.badscience.net/?p=404)

Of course, the fact that it appeared this weekend, just as when we're having a discussion about fate is, kind of, what's the word?

Oh yes, coincidence.

 ;tightend;

Fate means

Que Sera, Sera what ever will be will be

plagiarism.....lol. But i agree :)

I shall be bringing a very special card-protector to BB4 which gives me the ability to predict fate.

You have been warned  ;djinn;

No duckering!