blonde poker forum

I am playing the early stages of a freezeout in an Unlicenced venue.

The comp is dealer dealt, but the venue uses dealers who, on other occasions, are players....the dealers know most of the players, there is banter etc

I am not involved in the hand but it goes as follows

limp UTG in seat 1, MP calls, blinds complete

flop

 Jd Jh 2s

blinds check

UTG bets

MP calls

turn  7s

UTG checks and MP overbets pot

UTG is a young kid, festooned in gear/sunglasses/ipod/cap the lot, gives it a big dwell and asks "do you have the Jack, why would you bet so much if you have the Jack?" , thinks again at length, has the clock called on him, and then theatrically passes...

the dealer takes MPs cards in, takes a peek, tries to attract the seat 1's attention quietly, fails, and then shuffles

a few hands later seat 1 whispers to the dealer, dealer nods....most of the players do not notice this

a fellow blondeite (in seat 2 and who unknown to me sees it all ) does

fellow blondeite reports this all to TD in the break



What should the TD do?

would you be concerned about this venue allowing dealers who sometimes play the comps when not working and so familiar with fellow players to deal?

 

That is well out of order, i would have called the TD over when i saw it happen, for 2 reasons.

The guys cards should be made public to the whole table at this point, also the dealer should be replaced and given a stern warning.

IMHO that is.

You pay for informatrion unless its given freely.

So the guy who has done nothing wrong gets penalised? (by having his cards shown)

Yes, as the rest of the table is at a disadvantage now, the only other option is to remove the player with that information from the tourney,  and i dont see that happening.

but imo that is exactly what should happen. Only by removing the player/dealer from the tourney can the game still be ethical and it may teach him a lesson. No doubt he used the dealers perogative line to try and wriggle but if I was the TD I would've just chucked him out instantly with no arguments or debates.

Mna thats very naughty, dealer should be kicked

The Dealer should be Banned from dealing & playing at that venue, IF the facts as stated are correct.

Without getting into any arguments, the words "Unlicensed Premises" say it all. The need for all poker clubs to be regulated to stop this form of cheating is upmost. It certainly wouldnt be tolerated in a licensed venue and I'm sure if it did happen both player and dealer would be automatically banned from the premises. This practise whereby dealers are punters has been going on for years in spielers and personally I think its totally wrong that say for example on a Monday night player A is skint and deals in a cash game collecting tips from the punters then on the Tuesday night he turns up with his wages if he hasnt already done them in the bookies that afternoon to play poker against possibly some of the same players who tipped him the night before.
In the original thread it would appear that the dealers at this venue are part time punters, and in this case not only is the dealer telling 1 other player the hole cards but he is also getting an insight into how the other players play possibly for his own future gain.
Absolutely disgraceful that any club would allow this behaviour and I'm sure if the other players at the table knew what had happened they wouldnt be in a rush to frequent the club again.

To ber fair, "self-deal", with all it's attendant abuses, still occurs in respectable Licensed Venues. "Self-Deal" is the root of the problem.

indeed..no question about it.

Self deal leands itsself to more abuse than dealer dealt tourneys, that of course is true..but the problem is cheats. I have dealt many a time in tourneys and the thought to look at someone elses cards after he won a pot without him showing me NEVER crossed my mind. Cheaters should be banned from playing ever again, that'll sort them out fast enough :)

after the break, the dealer concerned was dealing at other comp tables, never mine that night again though

I left the venue that night, and still am, unaware of what was actually decided by the TD. Slept on it, felt like not going back

I intend on my return next time, in a week or so usually, to speak to the club about it and give them a chance to answer my concerns about their use of player/dealers as well as this specific incident before deciding on a course of action, personally.

If you are going to play in unlicensed clubs that allow players to be constant dealers and players  i think you have no redress to the dealing standards or the issue stated here. Legal club or not in self-dealt comps the deal should always move around the table so that things like this can not happen every hand of course you are going to have angle shooters trying to get a bit of info every so often.

A % of poker players are degenerates that will do what ever they can to gain a advantage and allowing one person to deal all the time is madness. I  know that i can stack at least 15 cards in a deck to allow a player that may have a financial interest in a friend on that table is madness.

To answer the question i would re-move the dealer and investigate.

What about the licensed venues that allow it?

if these people are being paid to be the dealer (taking tips in cash games) then the licensed clubs are breaking the law. It should not be allowed and I hope it does not go on in any Grosvenor

Came up the other night in the Brighton Rendezvous, the guy wasn't even after tips, although obviously a little bit annoyed that we had to self deal until the pit could free up a dealer i like that the cardroom doesn't allow anything to go on that could bring down the integrity of the game.