blonde poker forum

got one for you, i know the answer but i need backup to win this dispute.......


on a table 1 the action is folded on the sb (seat1),he raises allin , bb(seat3)calls, loses and is out. seat 2 is empty

a table breaks and 2 players come to the table, though only two seats are available, seats 2 and 3.
the button is now on seat 1.

what happens next

1. seat 2 posts sb , seat 3 posts bb, next hand continues with seat 2 button, seat 3 sb and seat 4 bb

2. seat 2 sits out, seat 3 post bb, next hand continues with seat 2 dead button (not dealt in), 3 sb, 4 bb

3. same as 2. but seat2 in the 2nd hand get dealt a hand on the button

4. seat 2 and 3 miss hand 1, with seat 4 being bb, no sb, next hand seat 3 button, every1 gets a hand

5. same as 4. in hand one , next hand seat 3 dead button, with 2 and 3 not getting a hand till hand 3

seat1 is button, seat 3 is bb. no sb in the hand, seat 2 misses the hand. Next hand seat 2 dead button (still doesnt get dealt in), seat 3 sb, seat 4 bb.

Tell me which option this is so i can vote pls lol

the options are numbered

but you picked 2

Although this has the merit of getting one of the new players involved, I'm not convinced that it is correct as the normal movement of the bb has been disrupted.  I think 5 is correct.

the plot thickens, option 3 was what actually happened,no one has voted for this yet, i disagreed also.

Im 99% certain 2 is correct.

I'd disagree with that too - surely you can't get a button till you've paid a blind?

im pretty sure its 5

Option 6: Both seat 2 & seat 3 along with the short stack (seat 7) are sent to the car park where they play a quick 3 handed triangular sit and go with the winner being allowed to return to the table in whichever seat is nearest the big blind

:)

went for 2 but then realised I'd misread it and think its 5.
new players don't get dealt in until button is on seat 4

what about option 6?

it's option 5.

In any of the other options the new guy on seat 3 would walk into a BB only situation for the first hand when he just sits down at the table..this is wrong. What is even more wrong is having new guy on seat 2 post a SB..that can't happen. they also both can not benefit from the button this round.

So, effectively, the guy who is supposed to be on the button stays on the button. the guy in seat 4 who was already on the table (UTg last hand) will post BB only. (No SB in the pot) and  hand after that there's a dead button. Easy...and I thought rather obvious.

 ;nemesis;

What if seat 2 wasnt empty and seat 2 put out seat 3 - you wouldn't make the new seat 3 put in the BB.  So why should you do it in this situation?  

 ;scarymoment;

It depends in which Casino group or if it was even a legal game...

who would use rules 1,2,3or 4?

names plaease

It's definitely not option 2, can't have Seat 2 skip the big blind and pay the small.

where was this game played?

It all depends upon where the game was played and the rules in force at that location.

And depending where the game was I can see all of the situations above being used. Not to say that its right or not.

Yogi

I went for option 5, because imo one should not be able to act last until one has posted both blinds.

This would not be the case in Gala, Stanley or Grosvenor as far as I am aware who all allow an incoming player to act last.

It depends if the incoming player has come from a table that has been broken or is just being moved to balance tables.

oh no it does'nt

ok, it doesn't

He's behind you!

oh no he is'nt . thats a vicious rumour that could get flushy jelous

AlrightJack organises/overlooks the Grosvenor festivals and he has to follow the Grosvenor rules. There's a tiny chance he might know.

all he does is turn up at grosvenor meeting/fesie's and eats the buffet whilst trying to get simon away from the model's.

Thats my understanding also and deffo one that Thomas Kremsner uses

In all grosvenor's / gukpt a player may sit in any available seat as long as it is not between the dealer and small blind. this include's the big blind and button.

Must also include the Small Blind then so long as he aint between the Small Blind and the button.

Have they changed the rule that said they couldn't if they were moved, unless it was from a broken table??

Don't think that reads quite right. Oh well

Yogi

Yeah my typing, sorry they can sit on the small blind dan.

The only 100% correct answer! All the others are correct too - depending what venue you are in.....;)

Ref options 1 - 5, LOL, none of the above.  They sit down. Seat 1 is button, seat 2 is BB and there is NO SB - seat 3 is dealt in.  Next hand seat 1 still button, seat 2 is SB and seat 3 BB.  It's not rocket science!

P.S.  Do I win a prize?

yes..but that doesn't mean it's right....the age old "why can't poker sort its self out?" debate.

Seat 4 is going to love being utg, 2nd utg. utg.....

And you are not wrong, either. It makes my blood boil when I see that Poker is so totally dysfunctional. Darts - they organised themselves, structure, organisation, & they get huge & GOOD TV Coverage, with money feeding through to the players, & a lively betting market. Ditto RFU, the FA, Premiership, F1, Tennis, Superbikes, Bowls (BOWLS ffs!), Baseball, da de da de da.

And we can't get to agree a standard set of Rules. Until we organise ourselves properly - this is not players v venues, it's the whole chabang - Poker will continue to be the poor relation. When you think how much money sloshes around in the poker economy, it's such a shame we can't get ourselves sorted.

Jeez, I wish I was a few years younger.

Yes, now if only there were an assosiation where the average player could join that would come up with a uniform set of rules regardless of venue...............

 ;whistle;

we can only dream Matt...we can only dream...*sigh*

Hmm, interesting idea. I'm sure it would be warmly received.......

As you well know Matt, APAT took their "own" (STANDARD) rules to a Gala, a Grosvenor, The Broadway, & Aspers, as well as The Fitz. Never had a dispute or contentious Ruling in 5 Events, & everyone knows where they stand. It's not that hard to organise, but you don't 'arf get some flak in the early days!

Classic post by snoopy, telling that to the tour TD :D


I went for 5, it's the only one i can't see a flaw with.

Yup, I think snoops got whooshed on this occasion!

sorry to pick up a fault tikay but in newcastle there was a dispute over a ruling i was handed the rule book after the ruling was made by Mel, and the ruling made by the TD and Mel was infact wrong by the rule book.
so untill TDs can understand the rules they make how are players expected too

It helps that most of the players havent played live events before so would just take whatever was said.

MOST players have played live but not huge buy in events

SOME havent played live apart from APAT events

So what does APAT say the rule is on this  ;carlocitrone;, and can you point me to the link please?

I apologise Iron, you are quite correct, I recall the incident now. We did indeed get the rule wrong on that occasion, & I apologised to the players involved personally.

I believe our Rules are on the APAT Website. If not, I am sure I can find a copy & send them to you.

How would you Rule here, Rich?

Again as said before, unfortunately it depends on the venue. The worldpokerrules and the TDA state that on "Breaking" a table you can move into the small blind.

Personally, I am in favour of option 5. I don't think it is fair to have the advantage of the button without posting both blinds, if being sent to balance as the moving Big Blind.

It also depends how a table was broken to whom goes where, and whether they are entitled to move into the sb position. IMO only the moving sb from the broken table should be able to move to the empty sb seat. As with the button. If a table is broken up by a draw, rather than seat arrangement, then they should omit the sb and the button.

The problem with the majority of rules including the TDA etc, there are not many rules, and the way they are worded leaves it open to TD's discression/interpretation. Rulings are very seldom black and white, and a bible is needed to cover most situations, even then there will always be "grey" areas.

Would appreciate them being emailed, thanks Tikay.

Personally, I'd welcome anything that delayed posting blinds.  Rich, surprised you favour option 5 to my suggestion.  What if seats 4 and 5 have less than the sum of the blinds and it's bubble time?  I don't think anyone would be too happy for 2 and 3 to receive this two hand holiday and then enter in late position.  Had 2 and 3 not entered, button would have stayed on 1 whilst 4 posted both blinds, my way button still stays on 1 whilst 2 posts both his blinds and ALL players are dealt in.

Thoughts please.....

PS My ruling was Grosvenor rule when I was last there(2005).  I believe they were looking into changing it, with players being able to enter on SB.  Whether they have or not, I do not know?

Dave, you been drinking tonight lol

never enter on SB its just plain wrong and can lead to players having to post the BB twice i know it happened to meon my first big live event when the SB should of sat out and i didnt understand what happened untill after it happened costing me my tourny

I was thinking about the exact point that The Sweeney makes as the only loophole in option 5.

What if they were playing hand for hand to get into the money and two low stacks got to sit out for two hands ?

I guess that there will always be one set of circumstances that makes an ass out of any law.  ;popcorn;

iof they were playing hand for hand there would be surely more than just 2 seats open as the money normally starts AFTER a table breaks not before

As a semi-regular at Walsall, I'm pretty sure they would go with option 2. You can come in on the BB as your first hand, you can't play your first hand as the SB or button.

Personally, if I was on said table and it was Walsall I'd say.....

"Sod the lot of ya, I'm going to the cinema to watch Ocean's 86.  Call us when you have made a decision!"

but  then they'd call you back in saying you would be disqualified if you left the premises :)

The top TWELVE get paid in Bournemouth's main event today making this scenario a possibility  ;topofclass;