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Title: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: AlexMartin on June 30, 2007, 03:09:54 AM Red AA oop deepstacked i re-raise from the BB to $26 from an $8 preflop raise. Stacks are $400 ish deep. Opponent is a noted regular with a strong game, capable of representing hands. He flat calls. HU pot.
Flop comes 9s Ts Jc. I check folded. Was this too weak? Issues i have is iv told him i have premium holdings. If i lead out he can flat call and take it off me pretty easily/ hit his hand. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Smart Money on June 30, 2007, 11:15:12 AM The check/fold is weak, but I understand it!
I'd possibly make a large bet here (which I wouldn't usually do with AA post-flop.) Bet close to the pot, and give him the tricky decision. It's a lot harder for him to pull off a move against a large bet, than it is against a 1/2 pot bet or a check. If he calls then you can check/call or check/fold the turn. OOP, when the original raiser and yourself are deep-stacked, I prefer to just put in a massive re-raise pre-flop and be happy to take the pot down right there. (Blog updated. Address below.) :) Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: AlexMartin on June 30, 2007, 01:01:38 PM The check/fold is weak, but I understand it! I'd possibly make a large bet here (which I wouldn't usually do with AA post-flop.) Bet close to the pot, and give him the tricky decision. It's a lot harder for him to pull off a move against a large bet, than it is against a 1/2 pot bet or a check. If he calls then you can check/call or check/fold the turn. OOP, when the original raiser and yourself are deep-stacked, I prefer to just put in a massive re-raise pre-flop and be happy to take the pot down right there. (Blog updated. Address below.) :) Yeah, thought about sticking in an $80 preflop re-raise but wanted some action, board was just way too coordinated. I know he knows iv got AA/KK/AK and can lay hands down, i also know he deffo has the bollocks to stick me in if i pot it on the flop. Next time ill just re-raise huge and pray he has kings. Blog linked mate. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: UpTheMariners on July 01, 2007, 12:52:24 AM i think you'll go broke if you keep doing this. ok hes a tricky player but uv'e gotta lead out.
Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: AlexMartin on July 01, 2007, 02:13:02 AM i think you'll go broke if you keep doing this. ok hes a tricky player but uv'e gotta lead out. thanks for the vote of confidence lol. pmsl. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: UpTheMariners on July 01, 2007, 02:28:49 AM i think you'll go broke if you keep doing this. ok hes a tricky player but uv'e gotta lead out. thanks for the vote of confidence lol. pmsl. ok bit ott with that comment, but i always think aggression is the key. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Moskvich on July 01, 2007, 03:21:26 AM Not sure about aggression being the key in situations like this. Here information is key - and as has already been said, the problem with the oop reraise is that you're trading money in the pot for information. He knows far more about what you've got than you know about what he's got. If you don't know the other player and he doesn't know you then this isn't too bad. If you both know that he knows that you've got a big overpair, he's still not going to make a move on you if he doesn't know whether you can fold it or not. So if he does raise you can probably pass. Here, aggression with AA surely just makes the pot bigger and makes it even more attractive for him to make a move, no?
Never thought about the huge reraise preflop in this sort of situation, but like the idea of it as an occasional play - thanks for that. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: AlexMartin on July 01, 2007, 04:20:33 AM Not sure about aggression being the key in situations like this. Here information is key - and as has already been said, the problem with the oop reraise is that you're trading money in the pot for information. He knows far more about what you've got than you know about what he's got. If you don't know the other player and he doesn't know you then this isn't too bad. If you both know that he knows that you've got a big overpair, he's still not going to make a move on you if he doesn't know whether you can fold it or not. So if he does raise you can probably pass. Here, aggression with AA surely just makes the pot bigger and makes it even more attractive for him to make a move, no? Never thought about the huge reraise preflop in this sort of situation, but like the idea of it as an occasional play - thanks for that. Iv been discussing this with a lot of players today, iv decided with deep stacks, on boards like this im happy to let him take it. The risk/reward ratio is too skewed. Mariners, no disrespect but do you play a lot of cash games? Its a totally different scenario in a tournament. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: UpTheMariners on July 01, 2007, 05:23:52 AM Not sure about aggression being the key in situations like this. Here information is key - and as has already been said, the problem with the oop reraise is that you're trading money in the pot for information. He knows far more about what you've got than you know about what he's got. If you don't know the other player and he doesn't know you then this isn't too bad. If you both know that he knows that you've got a big overpair, he's still not going to make a move on you if he doesn't know whether you can fold it or not. So if he does raise you can probably pass. Here, aggression with AA surely just makes the pot bigger and makes it even more attractive for him to make a move, no? Never thought about the huge reraise preflop in this sort of situation, but like the idea of it as an occasional play - thanks for that. Iv been discussing this with a lot of players today, iv decided with deep stacks, on boards like this im happy to let him take it. The risk/reward ratio is too skewed. Mariners, no disrespect but do you play a lot of cash games? Its a totally different scenario in a tournament. i do play cash games but i don't play them all the time. Don't want to restrict myself to one game. If the guy is tricky how about just calling pre flop? your hand isn't a giveaway then... Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Sunday8pm on July 01, 2007, 05:54:24 AM check fold is correct play
Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: The_Diamond on July 01, 2007, 07:37:03 AM WTF @ this hand?
Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Tractor on July 01, 2007, 10:06:24 AM Not sure about aggression being the key in situations like this. Here information is key - and as has already been said, the problem with the oop reraise is that you're trading money in the pot for information. He knows far more about what you've got than you know about what he's got. If you don't know the other player and he doesn't know you then this isn't too bad. If you both know that he knows that you've got a big overpair, he's still not going to make a move on you if he doesn't know whether you can fold it or not. So if he does raise you can probably pass. Here, aggression with AA surely just makes the pot bigger and makes it even more attractive for him to make a move, no? Never thought about the huge reraise preflop in this sort of situation, but like the idea of it as an occasional play - thanks for that. Iv been discussing this with a lot of players today, iv decided with deep stacks, on boards like this im happy to let him take it. The risk/reward ratio is too skewed. Mariners, no disrespect but do you play a lot of cash games? Its a totally different scenario in a tournament. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: AlexMartin on July 01, 2007, 01:58:27 PM check fold is correct play I hate playing that weak but what else can you do when you have told him you have a big premium hand. Im out of position against a known floater who has no problems putting me to the test, we play daily. Once he has called the re-raise he wont be thick enough to call with an AK/AQ/AJ type hand that leaves him utterly crushed. He knows my hand, i dont know his, this pot could get huge and i could easily be drawing dead if i lead out. He can quite easily represent a set here. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: AlexMartin on July 01, 2007, 01:59:50 PM Not sure about aggression being the key in situations like this. Here information is key - and as has already been said, the problem with the oop reraise is that you're trading money in the pot for information. He knows far more about what you've got than you know about what he's got. If you don't know the other player and he doesn't know you then this isn't too bad. If you both know that he knows that you've got a big overpair, he's still not going to make a move on you if he doesn't know whether you can fold it or not. So if he does raise you can probably pass. Here, aggression with AA surely just makes the pot bigger and makes it even more attractive for him to make a move, no? Never thought about the huge reraise preflop in this sort of situation, but like the idea of it as an occasional play - thanks for that. Iv been discussing this with a lot of players today, iv decided with deep stacks, on boards like this im happy to let him take it. The risk/reward ratio is too skewed. Mariners, no disrespect but do you play a lot of cash games? Its a totally different scenario in a tournament. i do play cash games but i don't play them all the time. Don't want to restrict myself to one game. If the guy is tricky how about just calling pre flop? your hand isn't a giveaway then... :goodpost: ;iagree; Good idea, i think this isnt a bad way to play these hands oop. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: AlexMartin on July 01, 2007, 02:00:43 PM Not sure about aggression being the key in situations like this. Here information is key - and as has already been said, the problem with the oop reraise is that you're trading money in the pot for information. He knows far more about what you've got than you know about what he's got. If you don't know the other player and he doesn't know you then this isn't too bad. If you both know that he knows that you've got a big overpair, he's still not going to make a move on you if he doesn't know whether you can fold it or not. So if he does raise you can probably pass. Here, aggression with AA surely just makes the pot bigger and makes it even more attractive for him to make a move, no? Never thought about the huge reraise preflop in this sort of situation, but like the idea of it as an occasional play - thanks for that. Iv been discussing this with a lot of players today, iv decided with deep stacks, on boards like this im happy to let him take it. The risk/reward ratio is too skewed. Mariners, no disrespect but do you play a lot of cash games? Its a totally different scenario in a tournament. Any board not ridiculously connected and so wet. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Royal Flush on July 01, 2007, 02:04:48 PM Flop comes 9s Ts Jc. I check folded. Was this too weak? Well it wasn't too strong mate! If you are worried about him outplaying you then bet 1.5-2 times the pot. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Benny Brox on July 01, 2007, 03:45:54 PM Most of the time I think you have to lead out to see where you're at, if he is a tricky player though if he calls or raises it would be hard to continue. A check raise might be an option, although it would cost you a bit you'd definitely find out where you are and it might also scare the shit out of him.
Can I ask what you think he has if, as you say,he knows you're on a premium pair? He surely wouldn't call with 99-JJ hoping to hit a set, would he call with KQ? Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Royal Flush on July 01, 2007, 04:11:56 PM He surely wouldn't call with 99-JJ hoping to hit a set, would he call with KQ? :dontask: Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: AlexMartin on July 01, 2007, 06:00:51 PM Most of the time I think you have to lead out to see where you're at, if he is a tricky player though if he calls or raises it would be hard to continue. A check raise might be an option, although it would cost you a bit you'd definitely find out where you are and it might also scare the shit out of him. Can I ask what you think he has if, as you say,he knows you're on a premium pair? He surely wouldn't call with 99-JJ hoping to hit a set, would he call with KQ? This is exactly what im worried about. Flop comes 9s Ts Jc. I check folded. Was this too weak? Well it wasn't too strong mate! If you are worried about him outplaying you then bet 1.5-2 times the pot. Again, tells him i really want him to go away and builds a bigger pot when i dont know where i am. He isnt a mug, he knows i can fold a hand. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Wardonkey on July 01, 2007, 10:50:56 PM Which are you more worried about, being pushed out by a worse hand or being beat by a better hand?
Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: AlexMartin on July 01, 2007, 11:16:24 PM Which are you more worried about, being pushed out by a worse hand or being beat by a better hand? both, eek. Im over the hand tbh, i like risk-averse cash play tbh. Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: The_Diamond on July 02, 2007, 03:45:00 AM Are we check folding because we believe we are behind or because we are afraid? The OP said the guy is "capable of representing hands" which IMO is why should NOT fold.
Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Nem on July 02, 2007, 04:23:11 AM Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: Sunday8pm on July 02, 2007, 09:28:51 AM * in this situation. Either that or get the lot in v 1 of these hands..QJ, KJ, JT, JJ, TT, 99, QQ, KK, KQ, QT. Work it out Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: totalise on July 02, 2007, 09:34:59 AM * in this situation. Either that or get the lot in v 1 of these hands..QJ, KJ, JT, JJ, TT, 99, QQ, KK, KQ, QT. Work it out why does it have to be one or the other Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: The_Diamond on July 02, 2007, 12:41:01 PM * in this situation. Either that or get the lot in v 1 of these hands..QJ, KJ, JT, JJ, TT, 99, QQ, KK, KQ, QT. Work it out Work what out? You both started the hand with 400BBs. Why would you be thinking about getting it all in on the flop? Title: Re: AA oop deepstacked v tricky opponent Post by: JungleCat03 on July 02, 2007, 02:08:09 PM Check folding here is a bit laggy.
Open folding is a superior play ;) Er, at least have a stab. If you are worried about the pot size escalating then instead of leading the flop you could check call flop then lead a reasonable turn which represents a decent amount of strength and he has to be very strong or make a very strong move to play back at you |