blonde poker forum

was playing cash online last night when this hand came up. i passed in a shot and my poker player mates started laughing because they thought i'd mis-read my hand.

no pokertracker as it was round a mates house.

10 handed .25/.50 - you are in for $50

UTG1-UTG5 all fold.
UTG6 - ROCK - raises to $2.50
UTG7 fold.

so to us on the button. we have position on a rock that i've played with a fair few times and have good notes on. i'm almost certain he has JJ/QQ/AK here. his raises are smaller when folded to him in this position with KK/AA and AQ/AJ. for different reasons of course.

BUTTON - we have  Aspades Th and call.
SB - fold.
BB - MOUSE - calls.

FLOP -  Td Ac 2h

BB MOUSE - check
MIDPOS ROCK - $2.50

right here i call because i know he probably has the ace with a king. i'm ahead for sure. he may well be betting his JJ/QQ to see where he is. i'm expecting the mouse to insta-pass when he CHECK-RAISES TO $10.

ROCK - folds

and what do you do? stack of $45 against a mouse that covers you who has check-raised? hell i don't think i've ever seen a mouse check raise before unless they had the nuts against a calling station. i came to the conclusion the only hand he could have was pocket 10s. unless the rock had QQ/JJ in which case the mouse may have AA. does anyone really call this raise against a mouse or even re-raise?

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for those of you not with my lingo.

ROCK - Tight-Passive --> Aggressive
MOUSE - Tight-Passive --> Uber-Passive

i dont like the pre flop call with the rock, seems like your asking for trouble. ok you've hit a nice flop but when the rock bets surely you must be raising here? especially if you've got him on ak. if hes got jj-kk i doubt you will get another bet out of him anyway, therefore theres no point giving him a free card on the turn. by raising you will also get information about the mouse's hand. if heres seen a bet and a raise hes going to need a very strong hand to make a play with. a set is most likely to be the mouses holding. imo 

Hmmm i agree against a rock this preflop call is a bit ropey as this is one of the only flop you like. I fold this preflop, i would rather have sc's/ small pp's than a10o.

As played i don't mind flat calling in position with this hand, especially if rock can get away from aq/aj here as there is little to be gained from raising. The board is very dry and your raise is going to look super strong.

Once mouse raises we obv hate it. His range is very small here if he is a true mouse something like a10,a2 (does he call light preflop?),1010 and 22. I like passing as we are prob chopping this at best. If i could do it in game is a different story.

the reason i flat called the rock on the flop is i know he'd put me on AQ/AJ as he knows i'm pretty rocky myself. i don't think a mouse calls preflop with A10 here also.

Ur overthinking urself imo here m8. Stack off and expect to be shown 222 a lot of the time. But you will be shown Ak/AQ/AJ/A2 enough of the time to make a pass here ugly.

i've never seen a mouse check-raise 2 solid players with JUST top pair...

You should fold pre-flop here 100% of the time. Flat calling the flop is OK, but I think raising is the best option.

Against certain decent players, and assuming they are deep, then I would fold here, expecting to be up against 22/TT.

mouses arent stupid, don't any of you think that often mouse's us there image to make squeeze plays like this one in certian positions, knowing the table will put them on a set. i stack off here and reload and re-think my pre-flop call for the next time.

If they did it often, surely they wouldn't be a mouse to start with? Isn't that what makes mouses mouses, the fact that they don't make this sort of play (or at least, they do it infrequently enough that there's little point taking them on)? There is of course a difference between a mouse with an AF of 0.5 and one with an AF of 1.8, and I think sometimes you have to be careful that what PT tells you doesn't influence your thinking too much. But here I'm pretty sure AT was dead. I'd like to think I'd pass this, though the way I'm playing at the moment I'd probably be reloading.

were still only playing $.25/.50 and i reckon if i was playing that level and had 25 pull ups back as my roll, i may pay the mouse's probable 222 off,

If mouse in this case is  actually just playing selectively aggressive postflop like all good players, then he could be expected to have moved through the levels by now and not be playing .25. 50 anymore.

I stack off here, gl to him if he has me beat, at .25/.50 im not giving my oppo's a lot of credit all the time.

jsut to add to this how many hands have you gathered to know that hes a mouse? you say you have good notes on the rock but no mention of the other player.

i had not played with the mouse before but his poker-edge handle is mouse which i find almost 100% reliable and in that session he hadn't raised at all apart from once on the river. that was from 19 hands played through till this point.

i really don't think the buy-in makes a difference. a mouse is likely to be a multitabler who doesn't make plays through all levels?

Wow if your read is based on that poker edge website, i have changed my mind and am stacking off. We had people on here who had 3/4 different ratings on different sites on that site over different poker skins.

One of Flushy's accounts is described as a mouse by poker-edge whereas he is clearly a green fish.

I don't think it is too accurate....

I'd also like to retract my previous comments. If I didn't know from my own data that he's a genuine mouse then I'm shoving em in too. Though I kind of suspect the reload will still be in order.

i've never found a mouse on there to NOT be a mouse though!

and yes people appear to be different on different sites but thats because maybe they played on one site 3 years ago when they were shit. like my pokerstars calling stationess !!

This might seem ultra risky but I'd re-raise the mouse for $20 and then if he comes back over the top fold (I know this sounds like donking off half your stack) but I'd read the mouse for AK or maybe A 10 also rather than trips.

I think a mouse would muck 22 to a raise of 5 times blind and a call pre-flop so the only hand they'd be winning with are AA or 10 10 and with one of each on flop and you holding one of each in hand statistically it's incredibly unlikely that's what the mouse has - hence the re-raise to find out (but maybe I'm just a really bad player).

but if u reraise for that amount ur committed for the rest and therefore your calling when he moves over top with top 2...

Fair point Adam but I just find it hard to believe he's behind given the play here and having made the initial call what did he want to hit on flop - having played the hand to then lay down top 2 pair takes a better player than me and overall I think playing them in this situation will win more than it loses.

I disagree. It's a standard call against non-serial pre-flop raisers- especially since it's only costing him 4BB to call.

Anyway, this thread should die. Its an instacall.

It's probably more interesting to think about how you are going to play the rest of the streets? I would rarely pass here I think you are ahead more often than not, but would you be calling the turn bet to check/call the turn and river? I would flat call his flop reraise let him bet the turn and stack off at least then he can have bet the turn mistakenly and committed himself if he is a poor player with a decent ace...and we lose to hands we were paying off anyway.

 what would you do if he was a jackal ?

 
 or a Lion ??

 or an Elephant ???

 
 do you think Elephnt's are scared of Mice ( in poker terms )
 
 cos that's just silly

I THINK HE SHOVES IF HIS OPPONENT ISNT A 'MOUSE'

yes quite.