blonde poker forum

Are double chance freezeouts actually any better? I'm actually a bigger fan of a straight freezeout. Which do you prefer and why?

i prefer the straight freezeout but the double chance has the abilty to prolong the game for that person that drives 100 miles to a game and gets there aces cracked 1st hand thus making them more likely to drive that 100 miles

Not if you take the double chance straight away, and get busted by someone else who took their double chance straight away aswell  :P

That'd be your own fault for taking it straight away.

You'd still be able to start your journey home after the second hand.

are they better   than what    exactly??

any freeze  should be a minimum    £100  buy in   imo.

I played in one at the new Coventry casino (fantastic venue  by the way), and I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind the double-chance structure they had.

Two 45-minute levels, during which the additional 3,000 chips could be added to the 3,000 you started with at any time.  Then after these two levels, anyone who hadn't had their second 3,000 could have them then.  So now it's a standard freezeout, but now with 20-minute levels.

So plenty of poker during the first two levels, and then as the blinds go up to a significant amount compared to stack sizes, the amount of 'poker' is reduced. 

Is it to make sure that anyone playing is pretty much guaranteed at least 90 minutes of poker (give or take)?  Would make more sense to me to have the longer levels after the double-chance rather than when the blinds are very small compared to stack sizes.  Or am I missing something?

Also, why would you not take the additional chips straight away?  Surely you don't want to be short-stacked when you're trying to accumulate chips?

I don't mind the double chance tourneys.  I'm not fussed either way in which I prefer but I do like the 'free rebuy' so you can mix it up a bit to start with, then if things get a bit low, just get the extra chips.  I appreciate however if it's a 2000 double chance, then the freezeout equivalent would probably a 4k freezeout so there's no difference.

I played in one a few weeks ago and in the very first hand I doubled up off a guy that had only ever played poker before on the PSP!

I like double-chance because it does add some element of strategy to the game.

I wouldn't say that I favour it over a straight freezeout, but I enjoy them as a bit of variety. ;carlocitrone;

Me too - they add an extra strategic dimension to the game. "Shall I take it now?" is an equation that depnds on what the others do to some extent.

I used to play much looser with the first tranche, & if things went awry, then take the second tranche & revert to grind mode. I enjoy them a lot, but I suspect the big boys would think that it gives an advantage to us mere mortals, in that we ge two chances, as it were. Maybe thats how they get their name......

Of late, I've been taking the full stack straight away, regardless, as it gives me more "play" options, but I guess it's as broad as it is long.

That's an interesting Post Porty. Why do you think those that cannot afford £100 are not entitled or able to play Freezeouts for £10, £20 or £50?

Or even that area's can support tourns of that price only. I think you'd find the number of games drying up pretty quickly.

There is a lack of Low freezouts as there is never mind people suggesting to get rid of them... Everywhere i see and there are 3 casinos in liverpool only offer re-buys, and for the less fortunate of us with a smaller poker budget you cant compete most of the time with people who are happy to chuck tenner after tenner to collect chips, £100 freezeouts are only going to lessen the amount people play.

Saying that, why they dont have more tounrnaments that start a bit earlier on school nights i never know... Maybe im talking locally, but it annoys the a*** off me.

Every Tuesday night around 130 people turn out to the cardrooms in Stoke to play either a straight £20 F/O at the circus or a £20 double chance F/O at the grosvenor.

Both have a chip allocation of 8k. Grosv's does 4+4 or 8 and the circus does straight 8k.

So if you like low budget F/O's head to stoke.

This is especially true of the smaller buy-in tournaments.  The people who are playing are obviously recreational players - so why not consider their needs?  Again, I don't think that poker generates a huge revenue for the casinos, and so the needs of the players are probably secondary.

I've played at Stoke a few times on the Tuesday night.  Now Coventry is offering a £30 double-chance freezeout on the same night.  Stoke's is dealer-dealt, and so has the edge for me, even though Coventry is nearer for me.

Fair play to you - but it's the same right across the UK, I see £10 & £20 Freezeouts everywhere I go, the cardrooms are heaving, these are incredibly popular. As it happens, I've been fortunate in life & can play at bigger levels, but I'm just curious why anyone would wish these players to be denied their opportunity to play "proper" poker. (Because Freezeouts cannot possibly be compared to £10 rebuy-Fests). If £10 or £20 is your spend limit as a recreational player, a rebuy is a complete non-starter. I'd wager that more folks play these £10 & £20 freezes - night after night across the country you can find them - than any other buy-in level. Take the argument to Online play, & it's part of the reason why Sky Poker has been such an astonishing success (I refer to the Cardroom), because they have catered for the lower buy-in players. Of which there are hundreds of thousands.

Meanwhile, & sadly, I hear that the £100 Freeze at Stanley Circus Notts failed to start tonight, as not enough players turned up. Come on Jim, get onto blonde & start promoting your Tourneys! It's free.....!

i am also a fan if your going to make it a Double chance making it so that you cannot get your 2nd chance untill after you have lost atleast 50% of your starting stack

whoa    fella.

i certainly did not suggest  that there should be   a min £100  buy in for freezouts,   merely that the upper range is not adequately catered for immo.

there are a plethora of low buy in freezes about, and those that like em  fill there boots!!!

however,a 120 runner £15    freezoout with3/4k chips and 20 min blinds  just does not float my boat       never has  i guess.


i will/do often travel further afield for decent  larger freezouts.

each to their own,as with all things pokerish.

Well I must have misread either this......

any freeze  should be a minimum    £100  buy in   imo.

Or this.....

i certainly did not suggest  that there should be   a min £100  buy in for freezouts,

 

imo     seems clear to me.
never mind.

I wish the casino's in Liverpool would take note and offer freezeouts.... I hate playing in the rebuys because it reduces the skill in the game when someone has a wedge and just keeps re-buying..... I have a limited budget and would like a £30 F/O...

Rebuys are great for people who have a wedge of money just keep going all in and then they will get lucky, all of a sudden they have a big stack and think they are the dogs b*ll*cks.....I know you get a chance to get a big stack, and they have good value, but, Freezeouts and DC F/O's are great for me....

That makes more sense - it makes the double-chance element more 'real'.

Now that is how I would like to see the D/C F/O's run but it seems that from somewhere people have got it that D/C allows you to take your chips when you want. If any TD for Grosvenor looks into the manual for a definition of a D/C it says they cannot take their second allocation of chips until they have 50% or less.

I know manuals get old and not updated but the definition of a D/C is lost by allowing players to take their chips when they want to IMO.

some places allow the 2nd chance to be taken at any time due to the TDs not wanting to do the extra work and the arguements that occur with the regulars who want all there chips at the start

I like em both

Why ?

because otherwise you might aswell just make it a freezeout

oh i prefer it as a freezeout

I have to admit ironside that the first £100 D/C F/O i did as I started explaining the rules of when you can take your 2nd allocation of chips and everyone started kicking off saying " No you can take them whenever you want to" I thought that i had missed a change in the rules somewhere and thought it best to go along with them. After some digging around I couldn't find a change to the way the second allocation should be taken so if I should run anymore D/C games it will be prominently in the rules of the game that you can't take your second allocation until you have 50% or less.

I don't believe that it is a hard n fast rule but the idea comes from the guidline 3 rule of when you can re-buy in a comp i would imagine.

I dislike `double chance' tournaments with a passion. I am also very surprised with comments regarding `gambling' with the initial chips and then topping
up if it goes pear-shaped. This is surely a big tactical error. By only taking the smaller allocation of chips you are rarely deep enough or have the `implied' odds to
be splashing about early. However, if everyone took the full chip allocation then it is most often justified to mess about with a % of your stack. These double chance events
are generally in the £300-£500 range and are simply in place to help the bad players. They also do not give players the experience of deep stacked `proper' poker that they will be forced to play if they move up to
the £1k-£5k range.

I like the double chance trnys because it give the lower limits players a chance to play poker with a decent stack. I always take my chips at the start and can't see any good reason not to.

The £30 trny at the Isle in Coventry is proving popular with 80 players last week. They don't charge any entrance fee at the moment and say that they will have dealers trained up in 7 weeks.

I think people are getting fed up with the £10 1000 chip all in bingo nonsense poker.

I totally agree, Bingo poker is the way it is, ok u can go to them with your £20 or £30 and try and play tight and just wait for the hands, but then some people just try and build up a stack and all in all in, and bang you have been spiked and its all over..

To be honest i have no real preference whether it is double chance or a pure freezeout and feel that tactical consideration regarding taking the 2nd allocation are often very negligible, i can certain situation where a weak player has accumulated some chips taking the 2nd chance as you want to play as deep as you can against a weak opponent.

Though rebuys are a bit "bingo" poker, the +ev in them if you know how to play short stacked correctly is massive. I happen to believe my long term ev is alot greater in rebuy tournaments, but this does suit my style as sng specialist i know when to shove my stack and when not to.

Both ways of running Double Chance Freezeouts are acceptable by the Gaming Commission so long as it is stated before the competition starts, which one it is.

So you don't have to be stuck just running it one way LordandMaster.

Btw see you in Nottingham soon I'm sure.

Yogi

Hi Yogi

Yeah would be nice to put a face to a name.

Rob

You haven't seen Yogi's face.

the bB's are all double chance and its good that they are as people are traveling the country to play a £30 comp its a shame some people are out after 3 hands huh Mr Kendall

Another reason I like the Westerns double chance is that they have a starting level of 25/25 rather than 25/50, but it's more the extra level I like than the dc.

What is their next level. 50/50 or 25/50

usual levels (I assume) next, 25/50, 50/100 etc,

I lasted THAT long?

Tom

I'm sure yogi's face can't be any worse than the one I have to wake up with every morning! !

I hope you aren't married  ;marks;

Lordandmaster made one ruling too many against one of the casino's Italian players.

(http://www.thisnext.com/media/230x230/Horse-head-pillow_74711836.jpg)

I was reffering to my own face people.

How insane do you think i am to suggest that my own wifes face is something to fear....


Very funny AndrewT..I like it...... rotflmfao

.......This is surely a big tactical error......

That's depends on a number of variables.

......are simply in place to help the bad players.....

You really think the Venues had the nouce to say "hmm, what about the BAD players, let's find something for them"? I think not!

Presumably I qualify, as I play as many of them as I can, but in reality, I just like to play D-C Tourneys because they are usually well-structured (by my definition of "well-structured") & most DC's are. I play both DC & non DC, & personally, I've not noticed that the composition of the field is any different. That's because it's not. The same players play BOTH formats.  So only some of the players are "bad".......;)

Given that in most Venues we can take the second tranche immediately, the difference between DC & "normal" is not much, in truth.

.........They also do not give players the experience of deep stacked `proper' poker that they will be forced to play if they move up tothe £1k-£5k range......

That may in fact be true - I know that if there were well-structured deep-stack "normal" Tourneys availble every day, I'd play them every day. But there are not. As to the £1k to £5k range of Tourneys, well, I can live with them or without them. My skillset is better suited to the lower buy-in range, so increasingly that is where I play my poker, & that goes for many others. You never know, but eventually the idea of looking for value may catch on. Until then, more & more players will chase the big boom paydays available in EPT's & GUKPT's, but how many will make a profit in them?

i always take my double chance straight away because, if someone else on the table gets their's early aswell and we get involved in a hand, i want to get paid off the max. they are just like straight freezouts for me. Imo a lot of players make errors gambling too much with their initial stack.

If the others take their second-tranche at the outset, then you must take yours.

Just listen for the cries of "Tranche please"

i personally prefer double chance freezeouts, mainly because i dont want to travel an hour or two to go out 1st hand and drive all the way back like walsall this weekend i travelled down there to play the montly one if i didnt have the 2nd chance i would of been leaveing with-in an hour and half when my kk got busted by 67/68/JQ/45  i also prefer them because i like the option of being able to play alot of hands early doors and have the knowledge that if i do get looked up i can come back in with plently of chips compared to the blinds i do think that the double chance should be limited to the first 2 levels though because getting it on the 3rd level is pointless getting 3,500 chips at 100-200 seemed a little pointless to me basiclly you either have to nut up or go for it because u can only play 1 hand and maximum 2 orbits or you are crippling yourself thats my only complaint about walsall

I prefer straight freezeouts because, assuming I have an edge over the average field, I want to get maximum value for my superior hand. Also, I feel my opponent's fear that they will be out if they lose this one hand is of much greater use.