blonde poker forum

Just curious.  Situation, $55 on Stars, on 34k, average is 28k.  I'm OOP and have AKo, raise to 3k (blinds 600/1200/125)  83 people left, 81 paid.  Table CL with over 50k re raises to 13k and I folded.

He hasn't been there long and I have no read on him at all.  Don't think he's shown a hand down yet, but he's not been there long enough to assess.

I folded because of a) the large raise b) he has enough chips to knock me out and c) I'm trying to play at a higher level to prove I can cope and I didn't want to go from a comfortable position to potential bubble.

Are you pushing with the AK usually? 

eek, just noticed Moorman is to my right.  Still rather there than to my left!

I think there will be more favourable opportunities to risk your tournament life than here and now.

You are 2 places away from getting into the money. There is raise re-raise in front of you. One of your opponents has got you out-chipped and you have a healthy chip-stack. So gambling your tournament life on Ace high is just not necessary here...particularly with no additional information. Easy fold.

I agree...fold...assuming you have no money in the pot.

However, was it was YOUR raise to 3k (it's not quite clear)?  If so, it's a little weak IMO. (Even without the Antes, 3 x BB would have been 3,600), I'd have been been more inclinded to make it $5k to start with.

Yeah it was me that raised to 3k.  I'm trying to be a bit more lag to steal blinds as they get higher and use a consistent raise amount that's just under 3xbb, the theory being, I only need to steal the blinds once in every two attempts to break even, but I agree, for AK, it's a bit weak but then I am out of position,

Thanks for confirming the fold.  It's amazing at the lower stakes how much AK is played like aces, in fact, it needn't really be as good as AK to see a lot of people shipping the cash in.

Glad I folded anyway as I ended up in 52nd and even then ended up going out a bit unluckily but very pleased with the overall performance.

i think its a very bad fold. The villian is probably raising you with AJ+ any pair. Of his raising hands there are probably only 4/17 in which he can call your shove.

Lump it in and put the decision on him!! esp with 83 left, were going for the win no?

I think the decsion depends on your ambition as to whether your going for the win or happy to collect some profit by cashing, if your going for the win I think I push, this will give you a very big stack heading into the money, plus his raise doesnt smell of AA or KK, its too big, as he knows around the bubble your going to fold most hands...

He will probably fold to your raise, if its a race so be it, but i like the aggressive play here...

To be honest, I was happy to cash.  I know I should have been going for the win, but I wanted to cash more.

If the situation rises again, I'll give it a push if it feels the same and go for the win

This is your situation. Therefore the fold is right for you.

Taking on the chip leader is not necessary right now. There are plenty of other ways to go for the win in a poker tournament without shoving and hoping pre-flop against a big stack on the bubble. Pressurising shorter stacks and using some post-flop guile when you have better quality info are more appropriate ways to achieve your particular goals. There is a difference between having balls and being reckless.

IMO any comp in which you are trying to make the money as opposed to playing for a FT spot minimum, is beyond your bankroll.

the 3k raise at 600/1200 + antes is a weak looking raise and most players would have spotted this so, the villians raising range could be almost anytwo cards, i think a shove here is not reckless in the least, i think it shows massive strength, esp around the bubble. I would expect any winning mtt player to shove here after making the raise 3k preflop.

Spot on, the $55 is above my bankroll, but I'm certain that it's not above my playing ability and I think I have the game to be able to compete at this level.  My bankroll suggests otherwise but I'm fed up of going deep in to the cheaper mtt events to get such a small amount of money back for playing for such a long time and going through at least 2,000 other players.  Saying that, to say it's  out of my bankroll is not really 100% correct, I do have cash aside for playing 10-15 mtt's at the $55 level and if I cash in them then that's great, if I fail to cash in them all or most of them, then I know that I perhaps am not ready for it yet.

It's a bit of a catch 22 for me, I'm sure I can cope, but I don't have the money for a long term bash without cashing.   I make the money around 40% of the tourneys I play at the moment and I'm hoping that I can continue to do so at a higher level where the payouts will be better and the fields smaller.

The AK hand is a lesson learned.  Folding was correct for me last night, I certainly don't regret it, but next time, I'm going to be aiming for the win and will be more aggressive.

Im jamming here, he has the most to lose. He aint calling you without AA/KK which he wont have a massive % of the time here. Your weak 3k bet disguises your hand strength. Jam for the win.

It can be a great sized bet, because it shows weakness.  But it has to be done with a hand you're hoping to get your chips in with over the top of someone's re-raise.  If you're going to lay your cards down to aggression, then the initial bet needs to be slightly larger to show him you have some strength.

if i was the chippie here i'd be making that re-raise with any two so close to the bubble so you should have auto-shoved. play passively around the bubble in MTTs and you'll almost always find yourself too short to make the final table once your through into the money.

lol, on pokerstars with someone chipped up then i'd put money on the calling range being bigger than just AA & KK - last night in the $50 rebuy i reraised all in and someone called for over 50% of their stack despite having no money in the pot to start with and revealed the mighty A9 o/s.............

not sure what i'd do to be honest - still got 31k with a pass on 600/1200 and above average chips, somedays i'd reraise and somedays i'd pass :D

If you push in this instance with A-K you will be asking your internet opponent to call another 20k into a now 50k pot. Make no mistake, he will be calling most of the time (leaving himself over 17k). I think the A-K push works best when there is a good chance your opponent will fold...almost all re-raising hands are calling in this example. Although we can say the big stack could have atc, what tangible evidence do we have to come to that conclusion? We have no information. Being aggressive with shorter stacks who pose no threat to you is more prudent in these situations. 

Big stack man can easily be over-betting any pair here to win the pot without contest. Hoping you have the best hand and then hoping it stands up is a lot of hope when you're sitting on the bubble and gambling with your tournament life. I'm not knocking players who want to have a punt here...but remember, A-K will knock you out of a lot of tournaments. If you are a player who is learning the game and someone who doesn't have an endless bankroll then playing smart and waiting another 5 minutes to cash is not weak. Just because you choose to pass this gamble up doesn't mean you have given up on the competition. You have PLENTY of chips and there are going to be lots of opportunities to get busy later on.

I do agree that raising weakly and then crumbling to some heat is an area of your game to look at though.

Good honesty Graham, I think we've all played to 'creep' into the cash at 1 time or another, so absolutely no shame here, anyone who says other wise is a liar... But in the circumstances given personnaly I move all-in...

Interesting question...

...are we going to push here with a pair of 3's?....a better hand that's ahead of a wider range.

interesting, but we are not going to be pushing wiv 33 here, cos like u have mentioned, the reraiser is most likely gonna be calling, and wiv 33 we are going to be 50/50 at best with the strong possibility of being a 20/80 dog

pushing wiv AK, we are most likely to be 50/50 at worst, but a chance of being 75/25 if he has AQ AJ etc

To be honest you could write a book on how to play AK.

"Harrington on Ace-King"  or "The theory of Ace-King" would be big sellers I reckon.

I can see the thinking behind the all in and the fold and there are good arguments for both which have already been put forward.

I'm probbaly on the side of moving all in as I just can't help myself sometimes!

larger raise from urself preflop imo....

but im folding to his 13k reraise ( resteal ) because i know that if he does this alot of time he will run into my better hand later on where i can repop him myself over the top with  Ad Ac or even  Js Jh .... would be in much better position then and would rather not risk all my stack on  Ad Ks at this stage when im in good chip position

Yep good point AgentChip...just saying coinflips at this stage not really all that sensible....ok ok I probabaly push here as well...Jesus!

If superdick wants to come over the top of one of my raises he better be ready to play for his stack...right here right now...bubble or no bubble. There said it.

Please ignore my previous advice Silo. It's just A-K is a truly woeful hand....and yet looks kinda good on it's back against A-Q....until a Q arrives to spoil your day. This is a volatile gamble and could swing either way and not at the most appropriate time either...however around 50% of the time you will be pointing at the screen shouting "That's what I'm talkin about!" to your now miserably short-stacked opponent....and that is a good thing.

I agree with AdamG and a few of the others here in saying your smallish pre-flop raise hasn't helped considering the situation. Usually I will make it 3,600 to go but because of the position in the tournament I think 4,800 shows the commitment you have to this hand and is a more appropriate amount.

FYP..


Give him AJ+, 66+ as a  loose calling range.

  33 equity against range ..... 34%
  AK equity against range.....52%

Shoving 33 is definitely far worse than shoving AK.

To be honest the range of AJ+, 66+ is probably a bit loose though and I think you can expec  88+ AQ+ to be more accurate as his calling range. AK flips vs this range too...

Given the weak raise preflop it's quite possible this is a resteal from a chipped up player on the bubble, especially if he has a modicum of aggression.

I think you have some folding equity here, and when you are called you will be in a coinflip situation most likely against his calling range. I watch flushy get away with blue murder around the bubble reraising raises like this with trashy hands and people ANNOUNCING they are folding hands like AK. That's just awful. If you are going to fold, fair enough fold but don't put a target on your head too!

That's the other aspect of shoving here, the cliched old "meta-game considerations". If you are called and win the hand, people won't be reraising your raises without the goods, so you can expect the % of successful steals to rise accordingly. You're also less likely to get action on your blinds.

If I had reason to beleive the reraiser is very tight, then I would consider a fold here. Normally though there's more compelling arguments to play this aggressively imo ;)

Another fantastic PHA thread,

 We all come across this exact situation so many times in and around the bubble in our MTT's and its just good to go over other peoples thinking of the best way to play this particular situation.

;iagree;

I was just thinking that for me, this has turned in to a very interesting post.    Thank you for your input (everyone) there's some good information there to take on board.

Basically though, the weak ass raise didn't help, then I wimped out and I should be more positive entering pots.  If I'd have had him covered, I would have called, but like I said, I wanted to make the money for sure and going all in on a coinflip wasn't what I wanted to do at the time.

Perhaps it was handy that two hands or so later I was moved to a different table :D

Although I agree with the notion of going for the win and not to make the money, when you're on the bubble *and* all your chips are at risk I don't think there's much wrong with playing conservatively. I also think you'll find better spots. I really don't think chip leader is going to lay down given the pot odds if you stick it all in, so you've got little in the way of fold equity. Why race here for all your chips? I'm prepared to let AK go in this situation.

I have bubbled in so many tourneys at the mo (2 out of 3 fessie events at Luton GUKPT).

BUT - I would still shove here. It shows great strength and you will be less likely to be re raised with trash hands after this.

You are chipped up yes, but even taking this pot uncontested and you are in a better position.

Also, I believe the re raiser will call you with ANY two cards due to pot odds and stack sizes.

But then again, this is online, and my online record atm is PANTS!! lol