blonde poker forum

Ok so last night I think I made the worse fold of my life, but did I do it for the right reasons?  It's the GUKPT Grand Final Satellite and there are 5 left with 1 prize.  I am shortstacked with around 15k, chip leader has 36k.  The others are all around the 25-30k mark.  Blinds are 400-800.

I'm UTG with  Aspades Ahrt I never normally limp with aces but I have had zero hands for the last half an hour and need to get some action from this.  So I limp, and everyone else limps in behind me.  I pray for a raise, but none comes. Ok, now I'm in trouble. 

Flop comes  2c 7d 2h.  SB checks, BB bets 1600.  I flat call hoping to trap, although am a little worried about the 2's.  Passes round to the SB who goes all in for 30k.  OK, so now I'm in real trouble.  He's limped preflop, so I can't put him on big preflop hand, but he could easily have a 2. BB passes and I think for ages (well all the time it would let me!).  Do I really want to go out on this hand??  So I pass.  He shows  Ks Kd.  Did I lay down for the right reasons?

Maybe limping preflop was a big mistake.  If I'd have raised chances are I would have got into a raising war with the SB, but I needed the value.  I just can't understand his limp with the kings when there are already three limpers and he has a good stack!

Eventually I did manage to work my way back up to 30k, before getting it all in with KK against AJ, and he rivered the A. and I came 3rd :(

Wow that limp with KK is odd there in a sat

I'm the wrong person to say this, as I can usually find an excuse to pass, but I don't think you can be blamed too much for a fold there in a sat....after all you are playing AA five ways on a paired board and if you play them cute you've got to be able to give them up

That said, I don't think someone with 77 or 2 x in the SB Overbets there, check-raises maybe but why all-in killing the hand, 2 x is looking for value there to try and lock up a seat too..so maybe a medium pair I thought was more likely before I read it was KK!!

hohohoho

Irrelevant of your limp, i think his massive raise all-in looks like anything but a 2, surely he'd wanna make some $ out of it rather than scare you away, I call with AA I have to say...

Although I agree that you have to be willing to fold AA if you limp and get a multiway action (unraised) , this is not one of those cases.

The fact that this is a satelite with only one prize also makes a difference.

I hate the guys play with Kings there, truely horrible.

Ask yourself this, what possible hands are beating you on that flop? 77 and 2x - if the guy has one of those hands, would he move all in?

I would seriously doubt it, but judging by his play with the KK he probably would! But you are not to know this.

Only one prize, nowt for 2nd, this is a call all day long in my book, in fact my chips would beat his into the pot!

The one thing you should take from this is that you should never allow yourself to find yourself in this situation again.

Never limp 5 handed with AA, in 9 handed there is obviosuly more chance of someone else finding a hand and raising behind you but at this stage in a winner takes all 5-handed sat game, all you are doing is encouraging the players with suited connctors, low pairs to come in behind you to hit a cheap flop and get paid off which is exactly what all 5 of them did/tried to do, which completely took away your abilty to play aces after the flop with the board came down with two 2's.

If the board had come 478, your still in trouble here as 2 pair or a set is very possible on such a board so you must stop these players coming in cheap, make them pay to hit their junk!

But back to the hand, i agree with what M3 said, if he had a 2 he wouldnt/shouldnt push here as he should be looking to bleed chips off the other players, not push them out,m at best you could say he had a 7 or an overpair to the board so im calling with the AA here everytime.

p.s. though it still would be impossible to put him on KK from the way he limped 5 handed with it but still its would be possible to put him on 88/99 and made your call a very easy one!

reasoning behind ur limp with AA is quite poor , no hands in .. forever? so then wen this comes and u fold it you havent really made any profit from it, ur just letting this sort of situation crop up on urself, 100% raise there 5handed 1 seat sat.

After flop, when he check raises all in , he has no 2, maybe over pair, insta call with AA everytime.. he would want more chips from u with 2x and would never put an all in bet in there. call - winning your heds up action from 1 hand - and go on and win!

The reasoning, is they have obv played no hands in ages, so if they suddenly pop it up utg, they wont recieve the action they would want. that is the reasoning behind the limp, and it's not ''poor'' imo.

This is an interesting situation. I see lots of people SLOW-PLAY a hand and then become fearful of the action THEY CREATED by concealing that strength! I don't necessarily think the flat-call pre-flop is a bad move...haven't we all done this at some point? Plan A is obviously to re-raise a raise. I like this play far more than the limp from kings man who is playing like a headless chicken. If Kings man had any sense then plan A would have worked like a dream.

So we move on to plan B. Naturally there will be a case for folding on an action flop now the pot is un-raised...but then again as flops go 2-7-2 rainbow is about as good as it gets.

PocketLady....you feel in charge of the hand at this point because you say...

So you must appreciate that action may follow because you are still concealing...this will be action that YOU have created. If you are going to slow-play you must WANT, ENCOURAGE and fully EXPECT action. Because if this is not what you have firmly placed in your mind then a big bet will come in....
....and that big bet will blow this little worry open enough to force a fold.

Kings man MUST be a little worried about the 2 or 7-7 himself after bet call in front but he puts that worry to the back of his mind. Exposing the fear in other player's minds and getting them to lay down better hands is a fundamental principle of winning poker. Never slow-play if you will fear the action this will create...they don't KNOW you have aces!!

Agree with the rest of the guys as well....the over-bet seems completely unconvincing and looks like a panic bet or maybe A-7.

I think some of the points you make above point toward a certain negativity in the way you were playing. Most good players will like that flop a lot and be looking for action on it with a massive overpair. Mantis makes a fair point that you have put yourself in a situation where you want to find action, but when you get it you shy away from it when you should embrace the opportunity to get chips.

Factor into this the fact that there is one seat, laddering up is not important, getting yourself into a good chip position is the aim and this must be a call.

anyone who limps utg then reraises AA and KK may aswell turn their cards face up as its so obvious. If i had say A2 in the sb and the above actions occured a flat call with the trips, according to the many would provide more value. Because everyone thinks that there is no way a deuce would make this play, makes the shove or overraise a good play in my book, esp if the sb figues there are overpairs out and that they will not put him on an 2.  If everyone passes. then it is unlikely he is getting action anyways, so move on.

In my opinion the AA is a very simple call, because not many people share my above view!. it is more likely imo to be A7 or 88 -99 than any deuce. esp with one seat out of four.  Very strange play by the KK unless he was sure the bb would make a squeeze play, i very much doubt this was the case, maybe a misclick??

i have often overlimped AA KK in mtt's with a lot of squeezable stacks in play and an agressive table. At least this shows you can lay big hands down, this just wasnt a situation to do so imo. Well done on getting so far in  a field full of pro's. Keep going and learn from experience. GL

Another problem that added to the situation was my read on the player in the SB.    IMO he was not particularly inventive in his play and had almost no moves.  For example I could raise his BB every time, and I knew that 9 times out of 10 he would pass because he refused to do anything without a big hand.  When he did have a big hand however, he would play it very strongly and from his previous play I thought it very possible that he could and would push all in with trip 2's.  Even with his amount of chips he only had two moves, all in or fold.  He would move all in for 30k just to pick 1200 in blinds.  And the fact that he had not played his KK strongly before the flop was just confusing.

I usually find it extremely diffcult to lay down AA, and I guess I just picked the wrong time to finally do it!