blonde poker forum

This week we are much closer to home with a visit to exotic Walsall for the Midlands Meltdown.  The Main Event took place in June of this year and we got our seat for the bargain price of £15....happy days!

So lets take a look...

The Tournament

Environment:           Live Game
Type:                        Multi-Table Double-Chance Freezeout   
Players:                    98                           
Buy-in:                      £1,000
Starting Chips:          7,500 + 7,500
Prize Pool:                 £98,000
Blinds:                        25/50
Remaining Players:   98

We are still playing the first level of this tournament and the mood at the table is quite cagey. Just a couple of quick strategy questions before we get under way with the hand....In these big double-chance affairs at what stage do YOU choose to take the reload and what are the reasons for your choice? Secondly, what sort of mentality do you bring to the table? Do you want to sit back and get a feel for the players or do you prefer to come out firing when the mood is cagey like this?

History & Players

We are only 15 minutes into this event and therefore the information we have on our opponents is negligible. This is very different from the Vegas hand last time. In Vegas we were at the final table and had a fair idea about how our opponents played, but here we are completely in the dark. How much does the lack of information affect your own particular decision making? Are you far more cautious or doesn't it worry you that much?

Blue Cap: 7,500 & in the cut-off (was wearing a blue cap)
Mantis:    7,425 & in the sb
Ray-Ban:  7,450 & in the bb (was wearing...you get the picture)

The Hand

The action is folded around to Blue Cap who raises it to 250 from the cut-off. The button folds and when it reaches us in the sb we look down to see an attractive looking....

 Ahrt  Jh

So the next early doors strategy question is this. With the safety net of the double-chance do you re-raise here in order to establish some ground rules and also because you are mindful of your positional disadvantage? Or alternatively do you think the equity in the pot is so low that taking the chance of hitting your hand hard and getting paid off is a better strategy?

On this occasion we decide to call the additional 225 and Ray-Ban also completes the bet. So we go to the flop with 750 chips in the pot.

The Flop

 2s  7d  Ac

Now that the flop has arrived a seemingly good A high rainbow how do you feel and what is your plan? Do you bet out and if so do you stand a re-raise? Or feeling confident do you check to trap here and play it out a different way...how much value do you put on tp Jack kicker?

We check at this time and so does Ray-Ban....Blue Cap fires out 500 into the middle. So now what is your play? Do you flat-call or re-raise and what is the philosophy behind your decision?

Oooh, another Mantis special.

In most instances I take the reload at the very beginning. I don't want to miss out on extra chips if I end up with a monster against someone who has increased his chipstack early.

My strategy in the initial stages is smallball poker. I don't want to get involved in massive pots unless I have a massive hand. I am going to stay away from dodgy hands like AJ :). I'll be playing suited connectors if I can see a flop cheaply, which may be possible in the early stages, and I'll also be playing medium pocket pairs as cheaply as possible, hoping to get lucky and hit a set. But most of the time I'm not going to be playing my cards, I'm going to be playing position on what will hopefully be a tight table, chipping away at small pots. If it's a cagey affair, I'm not going to pick up much information early doors just by sitting back and watching, and trying to steal small pots can be a cheap way of picking up information quickly as well as building your stack. If you get looked up, it hasn't cost you much.

Lack of knowledge of other players simply means that I can't afford to get involved in making big decisions on marginal hands. It doesn't affect my strategy of getting in and taking small pots. If I meet resistance, I need to rethink, but I'm not going to sit back, wait for a pre-flop monster, and then only take the blinds because I've appeared tight.

"With the safety net of the double-chance do you re-raise here?" This is partially why I take the top-up initially. I do not want to change my game because there is a "safety net". That way ruin lies.

I dislike AJ. Strongly. I dislike it even more strongly out of position. And I do not want to build a big pot with it, particularly pre flop. So no raise for me. This is not a hand to establish rules with. I might even countenance throwing it away here. If you don't hit the flop hard, you can't play it hard. Let's say an ace and two mediums and two spades come down. If you bet out, and meet resistance, you have no idea where you are given that you have no info on your opponents. He could be on AK, he could be drawing. If you don't hit an ace or a jack or two spades you're probably going to end up laying it down.

Assuming that we call and we hit the ace ... I can't check raise this because that's going to build the pot too much, and if the raise is called I'm not confident enough to fire the turn. I really want to take this down right now. I bet 500. If I'm raised, I'm done. If I'm flat called then have to reassess on the turn.

I can't really answer the last question. The last question should be answered before you decide to check and since I wouldn't play the hand this way, it's difficult... but I'm not confident. A check call is ok I guess and should have him asking questions. I probably then check the turn hoping for a check behind and fire out a blocker on the river.

In these situations, a check-raise can often be a good defensive move.  If we bet out, and then are subsequently raised (or re-raised for byronkincaid ;D), we're most probably going to be throwing our hand away - or at least be in a difficult situation.

The check-raise puts pressure on our opponent who could have a big hand, but could also be 'at it' and trying to take the pot away from us. 

Of course, check-folding at this stage isn't disastrous either.  But I think you'd be missing an opportunity to flex your muscles a bit.  I now await for the decent tourney players to rip my thinking to shreds...

With the above cards, the main reason to play the hand pre-flop is the flush draw. If you hit your ace with a couple of hearts, or the second heart comes on the turn, it gives you a bit more muscle to push people around.

A dry flop like this out of position is only really going to give you tough decisions at every stage (which is why I assume Mantis has picked it for this week's hand). With no information on my opponents, I'm minded to check-fold. With more info on the other guys I'd also consider a check-raise if blue-cap cont bets.

This is why AJ is such a pain in the arse OOP.

I like to wait until I feel like I need the chips depending upon how things go. I am hoping not to need them for while the blinds are low and my stack is steadily increasing.


It simplifies the decision making a lot. Just act as you would normally in a particular situation against random players. Once you gain info on players modify accordingly.


I think I toss my cards away as I don't want to be calling a raise OOP with AJs this early in a tournament and I think I can find better spots.


Now that you have called this flop I am hoping my opponent doesn't have AK, AQ, A7 or A2. I'd be surprised if he raised with 77 and shocked if he raised with 22. There is no flush and no straight so you have to think its good but I don't want to stack off with this hand either.


I check-raise hoping to take the pot down there and then. If he re-raises I'm throwing it away curseing myself for get involved with AJ this early on OOP and I'm mibbe thinking about reloading soon if I continue to get involved in tough spots like that :-)

If he calls then we re-assess things on the turn.

If I was on the table can I still post?

Lol...Of course you can Marcus. Here you go...A little bit later UTG raises...I flat call in UTG+1 with K-K hoping somebody squeezes...you pick up Q-Q in UTG+2 what do you do??

QQ you have to raise IMO and see if anyone calls or re raises you. Certainly not limping with QQ in earlyish position when blinds so low.

I probably wouldnt reload early but would look to double up by playing quite aggressive then reloading if the strategy backfires.


ps I have folded AJ plenty of times to a reraise in your scenario above early in a tournament - particularly when texture of flop doesnt help you with flush draws - effectively you are playing top pair 3rd best kicker.

As far as taking chips are concerned, the factors that come into play for me are the level of the blinds in relation to my stack and the standard of the opposition.  If I had a setback with the first stack and got to the 15-20 bb level, I prob wouldn't take my other half as I'd look for a doubling up opportunity against a busy player.  Otherwise I wouldn't want to drop below the 40bb level.  If a very poor player had a big stack I would take as well to have the best chance to get their chips.

As far as the hand is concerned, I'm folding AJ all the time here against unknowns. vs any competent player you have to get v lucky to win a sizeable pot with AJ.

As far as the flop is concerned checkraising is bad - you have no idea if you are value betting or bluffing.  Betting out and check calling much the same as no more of my money is going in on the turn.

Never you mind what I'd do with QQ after listening to Dave Colclough's CDs.

I actually remember this hand vividly and am therefore disqualifying myself. I will of course be reading all of the posts and theories for optimal play with great interest.

When to take your double chance?

Personally I don't take it until I have to, it's a safety net and I use it as such. If I get a double though early on and miss a few extra chips it's still a glass is half full situation for me. Plus I may not have got the double through if I'd got more chips or if I was playing for my tournament life. There are a lot of players who like to go big or go home Lucy is the stand out example that I've seen in my short time playing live. That's not how I like to play, if I life long enough to win as much as Lucy has maybe I could make an argument for it. But then again if we all played the same way the game would get tired pretty quick.   

Reload str8 away, i want everyone covered.

Erm, i dont mind flat calling pre with this hand, im not rr because im oop with trash.

Im betting out on the flop 1/2 pot. I detest cc as being the weakest ugliest play in the world.

Reload early? It depends on what the rest of the table do. If 3 or 4 of them do, I will, if none do, I won't.

A-J OOP? At this stage, BIN, quick. Even if we are establishing "rules", this will only serve to advertise negatively.

Later in the comp, same hand, same pos - BIN.

I'm only playing this hand OOP when it gets to the push stage.

Early doors, I'm gonna be Sponge Bob, soaking up info, watching tricks, see who's dancing, where we gonna get our chips from, who can be pushed around, who's the Albert who can't Pass. Once we done that, we can get started. Like, 2 hours in.

Finally found out his gameplan.

To mix things up a bit this week I am going to post my thoughts on each street rather than wait until the end.

As always they are only my theories on how I approached the hand rather than my recommendations for how you should play it and as ever all comments are appreciated. The turn card and further action will follow at the end....

General tournament theory and reloading: Personally, I don't like taking the second set straight away. The luxury of playing with a safety net and knowing that every decision will not be for my tournament life is something I enjoy...it gives me a certain freedom. At the moment my stack is competitive and that is sufficient for me. If my stack becomes uncompetitive then that will prompt me to reload.

In tournament play you usually find that one or two of the players at the table have a hot seat. They make chips with ease right from the get go, everything goes right for them and they hit flops for fun....and sometimes that person is you. With this in mind I like to use my first 2k or so to explore this possibility.

That said it is important to not be afraid to give a little action when it's cheap...just to see if hitting flops is on the agenda tonight. If I kick off only playing ABC or best behaviour poker then I may miss opportunities to get lucky. If I leak 2k with this strategy then I may well take the reload and revert to grinding until pots start coming my way.

In this example I pickup a suited A-J in the sb. This hand is not a monster and I'm oop so I'm not jumping for joy with it. But it does fit the criteria. Playing this hand for 225 chips is cheap and will get my gambling mechanism oiled-up from the start. As quite a tight player I hate freezing when the play is cagey. So let's give Blue-Cap a bit of action....and see what happens. This call is a loosing long-run play but I am not playing cash and tournaments aren't a long-run deal...let's see if it does the job today. Later on when the blinds are more juicy I muck or re-raise...I wouldn't dream of calling.

Preferred action on the flop: These are my choices and this is what I think of each one....

1. BETTING OUT - Never been a fan of this play for a number of reasons. a) My hand is vulnerable and I want to keep the size of the pot small at this stage...so why would I voluntarily inject chips into it myself? b) If I bet out I would expect a raise from the original raiser. If I was Blue-Cap I raise a sb feeler bet all day long e.g. representing A-K...and I would then have to fold. c) If Blue-Cap folds I have gambled to hit a flop...hit a flop...and made nothing. This makes no sense. d) If he calls I am lost on the turn.

2. CHECK-RAISING - All the same problems exist as before only they are now magnified. I am voluntarily putting MORE chips into the pot, if I get re-raised I have to fold, I only scare away hands I am beating right now and if he calls I am in a world of pain on the turn not knowing what to do or where I stand.

3. CHECK-CALLING - This is the play I choose. When I check I am interested to see how Blue-Cap acts and what sort of bet he is going to put in. In this example he "fires" 500 chips into a 750 chip pot. This is the first bit of info I get and I am looking to try and start putting him on a hand. If he has A-K or better then the flop is a real peach for him with no draws of any kind. His two customers are the flat-calling blinds who are oop and haven't shown any strength so I think this bet is a little on the heavy side of average for that holding. Is he trying to entice us in or take the pot now with this bet? I think the bet is a little strong so feel that I have a fairish chance of being ahead. Calling keeps the pot small, allows me to see how he acts on the turn in relation to this flop bet and of course the call on a non-drawing board may well slow him down if he's stealing, allowing me to value bet the river...of course I could also improve as well.

Although I am oop my post flop play is pretty good and it is not as if I am devoid of any information. I was always checking here unless I hit 2-pair or better and I am putting the onus on the original raiser to convince me he has me beat. His bet does not convince me of that but I am not getting carried away either because at this stage I have a little inclination and no more.

So lets go to the turn....

Part II

I opt to call Blue-Cap's bet of 500 and Ray-Ban folds....so we go to the turn heads-up with 1,750 chips in the pot

The Turn

The turn card falls and it is the

 Ad

The board now reads

 2s  7d  Ac  Ad

I dwell up for a second and then check to Blue-Cap. Is this the play you would make or would you be inclined to bet out instead?

Blue-Cap starts taking his time and seems a bit indecisive about his bet. Finally he puts in 900 chips and the action is back to us. What do we do now and what are the reasons for our decision? Do you have a plan for the river?

My thoughts, further action and the river card will appear on Friday

Fold for me unless I have a great read on the player.  I wouldn't have played this hand in the first place and despite the attraction of having trips with a goodish kicker I give my opponent credit for continuing to bet.

Re your thoughts on this hand - this is a gross play at this stage in the tournament and you are always going to be hoping you have the best hand.  I dont mind check calling a rag flop - but check calling when your hand is either a set or an ace is appalling play and if you ran into an idiot then well done. 

Initially I think I would have folded AJ pre flop.

On the flop I am going to check raise, mainly for information. But also, the check is likely to entice a continuation bet or bluff even if he doesn't have an Ace (maybe he has JJ). Now that I have caught a bit of the flop I am not just going to let go without having one bet at it. If he calls I am done with the hand and put him on AK or 77. If he overbets the pot I might abandon my plan of check raising, simply becuase it will cost too many chips to find out where I am with this borderline hand.

After the turn. If I have check raised the flop and he called, I should have put him on AK or 77. So technically I should be check folding now (and I would - maybe ;)). If I'd played it like you and check called the flop then I am now going to continue in this trappy/pot controling method and check call. If he has you beat you are not volunteering any chips to the pot and if he doesn't you are enticing him to bluff. But becuase I/you haven't asked any questions of him (raised) I am not sure where I am and don't want to face any big bets. I call 900, check the river to him and hope he bets the same.

Posted by: doubleup:

I wouldn't mind some elaboration on your thoughts doubleup. Just to say this is appalling play and that's that doesn't help me much. I give the choices that I had on the flop and quite a thorough explanation as to why I choose to check-call. Which option do you choose and why do you play that way? It would then be good if you could show why the theory behind the choices I discount doesn't make sense. I appreciate that you fold pre-flop...you have stated that fact twice, but I am interested to know what you do NOW and why?

Also, why are you so adverse to the notion that you may have the best hand? A player raises pre-flop and then he puts in a standard continuation bets on a board that is a peach for such a play and as such you quickly assume you are beat. Why?

Yes your opponent is continuing to bet but he is clearly not JUST betting. What is your opinion of the amounts he is betting? What hand do you put him on and what evidence do you see that is compelling enough to make you fold?

If you have no thoughts at all other than "he is betting" then I agree you are hoping that you have the best hand and should maybe fold.

Considering the action so far what hand do we put him on and what would he have done with this hand is we bet out or check/raise?

I did qualify my statement by stating that we could continue with the hand if you had a read that indicated that you might have the best hand, but as we have no real information about our opponents, I can't see where we can get this.  I played a tourney in Paris towards the end of last year and took a couple of levels to realise that a large number of players simply couldn't stop bluffing - here we have some information that makes a hand like this playable and profitable.  The nature of the board in this hand makes our holding obvious and a competent opponent shouldn't be betting the turn with a hand that we beat unless he is knowingly bluffing.  We have no idea if the opponent is competent or prone to bluffing, so without this information I have to take the risk of folding the best hand.
 

Ok doubleup well with regard to this...

It is my contention that body language and bet size of my opponent gave me sufficient information to continue with this hand. That was my own particular read. My inclination was that strong body language and a strong bet was indicative of a hand A-J could be ahead of. I felt at the time he would not act/bet in such a way if he held A-K or better. The merits of this theory are open for debate. There are pros and cons concerning the strategy of reads from such information and the hand is marginal...hence why it has been posted. To describe this as "gross" or "appalling" play is a little strong and a bit dismissive in my view. But of course you are entitled to hold this view.

Would a holding of A-10 for example not fit his action? And if he is holding A-10 you feel certain he would put us on a better hand? Also doesn't my appalling and unconventional play actually disguise my holding rather than make it obvious?

The problem I have with relying on history reads as the foundation of play in the early stages is that it is clearly impossible to gather such information straight away. So you are caught between not playing at all or relying on other factors to make decisions. Bet amounts and body language are two such factors. In your Paris example you may have exposed the bluffers much quicker and won more pots by gambling with such info rather than waiting until that fact was obvious before taking advantage. Just a thought not a definitive view.

I'm with TK on when to take the reload. of noone does I won't..of 3 or more players do (in my case probably 2 or more) I do aswell as I want their entire stacks.

On the hand itsself...I could call pre-flop because they're suited, but don't like the call very much as I don't like AJ very much..but because they are suited and look pretty I'll peel off the 200.

Bin it is fine or reraise with it if you want to establish ground rules about your blinds (what a silly thing to do at blindlevels of 25-50..who gives a crap about 50??? Really to call here because it's your BB and you want to let people know they aren't getting it for free is beyond stupid and something only an amateur would do. You probably won't be sitting with these guys when the blinds get to be interesting so let them have the 50)

OK you hit a nice flop, I don't like the checkcall here. If you have called pre-flop to establish some ground nrules about your BB you have to take a bit of control here somehow. You either lead out (and you'll get pushed off the hand by his reraise) or you check raise. A checkraise is BY FAR the better option in my opinion. You still have 7500 chips back and your first 7500 are only there so you can see how much you can turn them into. (Stupid chips I call them)
But you have to ask him a question here.

His bet of 500 into a 750 pot is a very respectable bet..not too much at all for anyone holding AK or even a set. (As I've said before in other posts..I bet my sets about 90% of the time) but it doesn't mean he has anything..he could..but you don't know yet. (which is why calling here is something I don't like)

Now the ace comes on the turn..GREAT, except you still don't know where you are in the hand. Does he have the case Ace with a better Kicker? Has he just housed up? Either way..checking here is awful. It screams "I'VE GOT THE ACE..PLEASE TAKE MY CHIPS IF YOURS IS BETTER" So he does what anyone with an Ace or a full house would do. He bets half the pot. You've got the ace..you're already invested in the pot and you're thinking you just struck gold and "I've still got a back-up 7500" will pop into your head when he makes all your chippies go in if he is indeed ahead. If he's not ahead he'll check the river after you flatcall on the turn. either way..there's no way that against a decent, non-maniacal, player you'll get anymore chips out of him unless he's ahead. So from now on it's immaterial whether you checkraise or flatcall him here and lead out on the turn (or even check it to him on the turn) If he's ahead you lose your chips and if he's behind you'll only win the pot as it stands. ..unless a miracle Jack appears on the river.

just my two pennies of course.

Thanks for your views Boldie

I chose this hand because it is marginal and as you can see I am playing it in a way that I knew would cause discussion. As I said earlier I play this hand much differently later on and would probably check-raise the flop myself. But here I decide to get a bit trappy with it after the flop and was interested to see the response. The two things that have surprised me so far are...

1. We are quite quick to except we are behind and are fearing the worst. e.g. Does he have the case ace with a better kicker?...this accounts for 2 hands...Does he have the case ace with a worse kicker?...this accounts for many more hands. Does he have the full-house?...maybe. Does he not have the full-house?...much more likely. It is interesting that people are viewing this quite negatively.

2. We are also quick to offer our opponent credit for being a good player as a kind of default mentality. But the reality is that many players in tournaments are either average or pretty poor.

A couple of things in response to your post if I may Boldie. Firstly, you say...
I like this point a lot and think it is spot on the money. But this is not what he does on the flop. He fires out three-quaters of the pot. If he bet say 300 on the flop it changes the complexion of the hand for me. As I said before, the table was very cagey, and as I recall we hadn't seen a turn card up to this point...flop bets were winning pots. Now here is a guy that really jams in 500 chips...that just struck me as ott for a big hand.

Secondly...

If I check-raise the flop here I get an inferior hand to fold and I loose the additional 900 chips he bets on the turn. Also I am pretty certain an inferior ace would pay me a value bet on the river should I decide to go down that road. It seems that I was confident with my hand after I saw the flop bet and the way Blue-Cap was acting. My intention on the flop was a trappy one and as such check-raising and forcing the guy out was not on the agenda for me. Maybe the double-chance was allowing me to play freely but even though I am not a fan of A-J myself I felt good with it here. I wouldn't play so riskily later and I am usually a TAG player but you do have to gamble to win tournaments and I wanted to follow my instincts here.

OK Final Part of HOTW. It's sparked an interesting debate this week so thanks to everyone for their contributions.

Thoughts on the Turn:The second ace on the turn didn't really change anything for me and I was always planning to check whatever card appeared. Blue-Cap quietly bets half the pot now and I found this quite interesting. The information I now had from both his bets meant that I thought I had a fair idea what he was holding. Even though A-J is a worrying hand I did feel confident I was ahead.

After he bets I think about raising but decide to wait until the river drops and then "fire" in a big bet myself to make it look a bit fishy. I am almost certain he will call or fold if I do this. I do want the call however.

Lets's go to the River....

Part III

I opt to continue with my trappy mentality, call the 900 turn bet, and go to the river with 3,550 chips in the pot.

The River

The river arrives and it is the

 4c

Making a board of

 2s  7d  Ac  Ad  4c

So the action is on me and I follow through with my plan to put in bet. I aggressively jam in 2,750 chips and try to look a little nervy hoping he doesn't fold. What would you do in this situation? Is check-calling the safer option?

Blue-Cap thinks about it and then pushes ALL-IN. To be honest this took me completely by surprise...I never expected this for a second. So the question is What do you do now and what hand do you put your opponent on? You still have 3,000 chips left and have now gone from a position of confidence to being completely lost. Are you able to find a fold? Would he do this with say A-10 and so should you call? Is this the dilemma I have asked for by playing A-J oop and getting too clever with it?

The result will appear on Saturday....

I don't really understand why you would be completely lost when he moves all in to be honest.It's pretty much what I said would happen. Now on the turn you've decided that you're ahead, what makes you lost now? You've decided you're ahead on the turn and the river (unless he has A4 or pocket 4's..lol even 35 I guess.) doesn't change anything if you thought it was wise to betout on the river it is wise to call here.

You've engineered yourself into a position that you are getting better than 3-1 that your opponent is a very poor player and is either value betting a worse hand or making a poorly timed bluff, so you have no option but to call.

I suppose the crucial question about this hand for me was this. In spite of the marginal nature of my hand, rightly or wrongly I am confident I am ahead on the flop. In my mind I am still trapping on the turn. When it gets to the river I am thinking about how to extract the maximum out of my opponent. The sort of hands I am putting him on mean that he will only fold or call.

So my surprise comes from the fact that he does something that I don't anticipate. If he has say A-10 or A-9 for instance he surely can't push here? If we put ourselves in his shoes it must look like we flopped a set or similar...no draws and check-calling all the way. So because I have gone so deep with this hand because of my own reading of the situation would it be possible to do an about turn at this late stage? Maybe he has got A-K and I have read it all wrong? But could he push now even with A-K? Surely he's stronger than that so maybe he has A-7 and just bet it strongly on the flop? His push on the end has blown my theory to bits and so wouldn't continuing to have faith with this theory allow me to fold? This is I think where not knowing your player is the massive handicap that doubleup talks about. So let's say that we know this guy is a very good tight player...would it be possible to fold now with the benefit of that info? Or are the mathematics of the situation and my own acting weak on the end good enough reasons to call?

But I'll have forgotten it by tonight. Beware old geezers with misreads & bad memories, they are dangerous.

I think you should definately check call the river (or check then maybe call :P). You have gotten this far by check calling. It's possible he is still on a complete bluff and you might as well let him try it again.

Your river bet shows you are willing to put 2,750 in the pot, it's unlikely he will bluff more than this so it will likely be an amount you can make an easy ish call of. Even if he has a full house, he will probably value bet the pot size or less, so you get off cheaper / similarly here too.

Betting hoping for him to call with a worse hand puts him specifically on something like A10 or A9 as you have already said. Those hands shouldn't reraise, so realistically you shouldn't call his all-in on the end. But, it's a tough decision :( Where will 3,000 chips get you? You have the chance at 12,000 right here. And ther is the 2nd chance as backup.

Apologies for the delay, the conclusion to this hand will be revealed later today.

83 minutes left to make good on that statement  ;whistle;

17 minutes...

Thought as much :P

Have you not learnt the most important lesson of deadlines? Always give one later than you think you can make, then when you beat it everyone ( / your boss ) is impressed. And more importantly it will reduce the number of times when you overrun!

lmao

Hey. It's still today in my mind, I haven't gone to bed yet.  :)

The answer to this hand, and some post-match comments from Mantis, can be found by clicking the link below:

http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12187 (http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12187)

... and it's still today!

I suppose this result was predictable, but I think Mantis got what he deserved.  He never wins a big pot in this hand against a competent player and occasionally loses one.  Against an idiot his play is ev+, but he also occasionally loses a big pot.  I don't think that the default assumption in a £1000 tourney should be that an unknown opponent is an idiot.

As improving players we read and think a lot about poker strategy. This makes our thinking refined to the point that we ensure we don't overestimate the value of hands like A-J. D Brunson dislikes A-Q for the very same reasons.

Tournament play is about being alive to the possibilities of every unique situation. Actual hand strength is just one of the factors to take into consideration when making a play. I think if you go into tournaments with a rigid and predetermined set of values you will fail to take advantage of some of the possibilities on offer.

So in this week's hand I see the equation A-J + OOP = Fold...being quite a prevailant philosophy. More often than not that is going to be sound advice.

But let me point out the additional criteria that entered my thoughts in this particular and unique situation. A) Bettor's Position - First to enter comes from the cutoff. He doesn't need A-Q or better to raise from here. If it was an early raise or there was a pre-raise limper I default to A-J + OOP = Fold strategy. B) Stage in Tournament - At the start of a big event I want to see a few cheap flops and try to get lucky. Trying to get lucky shouldn't be frowned on. Every tournament winner gets lucky at some stage. I am not going to have many opportunities to see cheap flops as the tournament progresses. C) Hand Type: I have a chance to see a cheap flop drawing to the nut flush/straight. This can and often will win a big pot if you hit early in a tournament and a flop like A-J-3 wins a big pot from A-K...there are many possibilities. D) Post-Flop Play: My position is not good, but do I absolutely need position to win a pot from this guy? I can find that out here cheaply. And actually playing a hand gets me a lot of information I could be waiting hours for. E) Double-Chance - The nature of the tournament meant I could play a bit freer. F) Other Factors - Body language and bet amounts can help me put an opponent on a hand. G) Raise Size - If he raises more I would fold but 225 is cheap enough.

So by taking ALL this information into account I thought calling for 225 chips in this unique situation with A-J was a reasonable play. From the reveal you can see that the A-J was ahead for most of the way and seemed destined to win a sizeable pot. A-J Vs A-4 is a +EV situation most of the time:)

a) Of course. But you don't know the geezer from Adam, you've no idea what his raising range from cut off is, and you're OOP of course. Unless you hit the flop massively, you're unlikely to know exactly where you are.

b) Agree with this, but are you likely to get paid off if an ace hits and he doesn't have one so early on? I'd much rather play medium suited connectors here. Perhaps more likely to get paid off if you hit big, and less difficult to get away from if you only hit one pair.

c) IF he has AK and IF you hit AJ, yes. But if you knew for sure he had AK and an ace was going to hit, would you call with AJ? If not, then using the "I might win a big pot if AJ hits" is illogical.

d) Agreed, but I'd rather try and take a pot away from him without being attached to the flop; that way if he fights back, you don't have a difficult decision. Agreed about the cheap information, if indeed you can get it cheaply.

e) It's all coming down to what hands you'd rather play with, isn't it? Of course you can play a bit freer, but see point b) - I'd rather try and get lucky with a hand I'm not going to get attached to if I partially hit.

f) Yes, but a bit later on you'll have even more read information. Why try and play him off now rather than later when you'll know a bit more?

I understand your points but I'm still not in any way minded to call OOP with AJs in this position. Having said that, I don't think I'm good enough and confident enough to make the right decisions when holding this kind of hand, and that clearly influences my starting hands selection.

The most compelling factor to consider in a tournament is the clock. So you may not know what your opponent's particular range is when raising from the cutoff but imagine how long it's going to take before acquiring that sort of specific information. Then when you get a guy's range you inadvertently get moved or the table gets broken. I think it's better to default that the cutoff can raise with a wide range and treat any additional information as a bonus. Many tournament situations are going to be more marginal than you would like. We are worrying a lot about a better hand whilst disregarding any thought that we could be holding the best hand.