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It's 1am on September 13th and Day 2a of the World Series of Poker Europe (WSOPE) Main Event has just finished. For a lot of British players, myself included, this is probably the first time that they have been able to watch the big names in action, such as Negreanu, Hellmuth, Lederer, Hansen...I could go on, and that list would be very long indeed. Lots of the top names from the United States have made the journey over, but there were a few notable absentees, Mike (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=671) Matusow (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=671) and Phil (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=709) Ivey (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=709) spring to mind. 

For the WSOPE ME, Harrah's, the tournament organisers, decided in conjunction with London Clubs International that they were going to hold Day 1a and Day 1b in 3 different casinos, therefore spreading the players around the city. For the players, this was no problem. For the spectators, this was a problem. What if you wanted to see Doyle (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=532) Brunson (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=532) and Jamie (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=839) Gold (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=839)? Or Johnny (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=605) Chan (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=605) and Daniel (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=515) Negreanu (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=515)? Or Scotty (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=874) Nguyen (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=874) and Neil (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=302) Channing (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=302)? Not possible. Well, not at the same time. You'd have to head from one casino to the other. For the Empire and the Fifty, this was easy, a ten minute walk down Piccadilly. The Sportsman, however, was located in Marble Arch, which meant a Tube journey, and the last thing you want to do is get on a Tube at 5pm!

Even worse for the spectators, the Fifty is an exclusive casino, with a month long waiting list and a £750 membership fee. When I went there, in the hope of seeing Johnny (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=605) Chan (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=605) and Doyle (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=532) Brunson (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=532), I was emphatically told “no entry for any spectators”. For the fan like me, having never seen Texas Dolly in action, this was a hammer blow, as I'd been looking forward to watching him play. (As it happens, I would have missed him anyway, as he was out within the first level) So I trundled back to the Empire and was lucky enough to get to the front of the rail to watch Daniel (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=515) Negreanu (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=515) double through with AK vs AQ.

(Now, I didn't get to go to the Sportsman, as I didn't want to face the Tube, so all my observations are focused on the Empire. I was in town for Day 1b and Day 2a, and I intended to go to the Sportsman on Day 2a, unaware that Day 2a was exclusively played in the Empire.)

The Empire casino is VERY nice, both inside and out. However, if Harrah's come back over here next year, then PLEASE do not hold the WSOPE ME here. It is impossible to rail properly. The card room is far too small, as Jen and Snoops can testify, and there is one place to stand, which incidentally blocks the entrance. It is impossible to see the back tables, so when you want to watch Greg (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=561) Raymer (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=561) move all in and don the shades, you cant see a thing as there is cameramen/TDs/players (delete as appropriate) blocking your line of sight and nowhere to move to as the fence/other tables block you. Random tables just seemed to be dotted around the place. I overheard players complaining that it was just too cramped and that they weren't happy. Harrah's also need to learn that when you have a table with Hellmuth and Ferguson sat next to each other, there will be a lot of interest and as a result, don't place them where the press and staff cannot get through the rail because there was no room for more than one line of spectators.

As for the feature table, there was no advertising to it, and as a result the seats were empty. The only time I ever saw it full was when Doyle (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=532) Brunson (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=532) and Johnny (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=605) Chan (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=605) were in there. (Another note: If Doyle (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=532) Brunson (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=532) is in the audience, having a private conversation with Johnny (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=605) Chan (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=605), I'm pretty sure he won't like having a tech guy shoving a mic in his face asking him to wear it! Doyle just sat there gobsmacked and Chan ended up telling the techie to stuff it!) As a result of this, Jack Effel just couldn't get any audience reaction when there was an all in, I'm sure this will look good on TV.

To sum up, having the WSOPE here is good for poker in the UK, but for the spectators, I really think Harrah's has dropped the ball this year. There are serious problems that need to be addressed. They need to find somewhere to hold it which can accommodate all the players in one room, and leave enough space for movement from everyone, staff, press, players, spectators and others. They need to advertise certain parts better, such as the feature tables. They must address any concerns that players have and sort it out.

Railbirding can be fun. It's good to see the top players play for the first time. It's good to feel like you're witnessing something big. But for spectators this year, it's not fun. It's not fun trying to watch Hellmuth trash talk and feeling like you're stuck on a stationary Tube train at 5:10pm. It's not fun to find out you can't watch certain players because no spectators are allowed. Please Harrah's, sort it out for next year. Otherwise the WSOPE could be a failure. And that would be bad for British poker.

Interesting post but poker is not a spectator sport IMHO.

For some it is, look at the rail at the various WSOP events.

Good post sharplea.

I disagree.

I love nothing more than watching poker, even without hole cards. You can pick up on a lot of things that the top name players do, and add it to your game, making you a better player in the long run.

Allen Cunninghan was playing at Fifty on day 1b

enjoyed reading that, thanks

discovered a blondepedia entry or two I'd not read too.......

I'll edit, thanks Karl!

Just ask Kybosh....

Well I was able to do some railing yesterday, took and American colleague from work and we spent a fantastic hour, mostly around table Hellmuth!

When we got there Phil was berating his Scandie neighbour for “disrespecting the game” and not “following etiquette”, I never did find out what misdemeanour he had done, he may had talked, out of turn who knows?

Phil’s drone reminded me of an annoying petrol strimmers the just keeps on going and going and going…..

To the hand, PH on the button around 40k chips blinds 400-800 with 100 ante. Action preflop includes an UTG raise and call by his neighbour (Mark McCluskey), then folded round to PH who calls. Flop  Jd  7d X, UTG quickly bets around 10k and Mark goes into the tank. What could he have, I wisper to my colleague “I think he is on a flush draw and is considering going over the top all in for his last 35K”. After 2mins or so he does calmly push all in. Round to Phil who calls (leaving himself with about 4K), he seems real strong maybe he has trips! Mr UTG folds and it was “on your backs gentlemen”, phil showing   7h  7s but wait Mark has the hooks yes a higher set. There were genuine ooohhs and ahhs  from the crammed in crowd but the Scot from London stays ahead with no outdraw, well played sir

There was then the most amazing breaking of etiquette and in my opinion worst sin at  the table, the poor girl who delt PH his trips gets both barrels, “what sort of an f***ing deal was that”, she was getting replaced “don’t go now stay and you can really F***ing bust me”. Talk about disrespectful, anyone else would have been given a penalty, but err I guess it makes for good TV.

The footnote is that Phil is still in, you have to give him credit, he continued pushing his short stack and got as high as 44K.

Yes, it's great for the spectator to be able to watch, but it's only ever a burden to the players, who are the most important people. I'd be all in favour of having no spectators at live events, except in specially constructed seating around a TV or feature table. Spectators get in the players' way, the tournament staff/valets' way, and the media reporters' way. A lot of them are just star-spotting idiots.

Kick 'em out.

Good post sharplea.

The 3 casino option was never going to be ideal....but since they now own those 3 clubs, thats why they went for it!

When the Empire first opened, I mentioned what a disappointment the card room was (certainly considering the WSOPE was coming up). Too small and badly positioned down a long narrow corridor.

Also , knowing that Fifty was an exclusive,£750 a year private club....why didn't they create something like a  "viewing day pass" for spectators??


and of course if they want the "700+" next year then it seems a £5k buy in is more realistic.

Very thought-provoking Posts by Sharplea & Stone, thanks guys.

As to Stone's comment about no penalty being dished out to Hellmuth, players almost never get penalised for misdemeanours in British Poker. We are unique in that respect. For murder or sodomy you may get a warning though.

Duly noted for the upcoming blonde bash main event........

p.s. out of curiosity what about murder and sodomy?

I assume you haven't found a taker for your spare bed at blonde bash then?

rotflmfao rotflmfao

As it happens the room has been taken - though no doubt an excuse will be forthcoming if he reads this thread.

i was more referring to doing it at the table during the main event - what i get upto in my treehouse at night is not punishable by the TD ;)

just ouf of interest, if Hellmuth was giving you trash talk at the table, and you told him to F*** off. What would happen?, would you get a time penalty, or more serious consequences?

Was this Ramzi Abbassi he was berating? I believe it was because Ramzi kept asking to see Phil's hand whenever Phil mucked a losing hand even if Ramzi wasn't in the pot. I saw him do this once and Phil was not happy, moaning to Jesus, Annie Duke and anyone else who could listen.

it's on live, why didn't anyone say?

http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/mediacenter/livevideo.asp (http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/mediacenter/livevideo.asp)

thanks byron

any idea who that is on the feature table?

Daniel Negreanu's on there, along with Adam Junglen and others.

not for long they are breaking the feature table after the break

is that seat 6 joe beevers seat 7 danny neg seat 8 johnny chan ?


not sure on anyone else

Have to agree with the general consensus. Railing poker tournaments is duller than a very dull thing.

And it's the most irritating thing in poker when railbirds are really close to you and won't stop talking. If they must rail, ok.. but at least can they keep their discussion about last nights Corrie until later?

Yes it was Ramzi he was berrating. And I though Ramzi handled it really well - for about 4 hours - then Phil finally got to him and the poor gtuy bluffed off all his chips. The irony is that the berrating was mostly about what he saw as Ramzi's bad table etiquette which was rich given the dealer abuse he gave out when I took most of his stack!

Anyone watching it now?

Gus talking into his dictaphone F'ing and Blinding about peoples donkey plays. lol

With this link - http://wm.istreamplanet.com/customers/bluff/wsop_live_free_500.asx - it opens in Windows Media Player and can be re-sized.

good feature talbe with gus patrick and danny