blonde poker forum

2-4 NLHE, full ring

I am in CO with Ac Kd  $425 Raise to $14 unopened pot. Solid image.

Villain in SB $700, stats suggest solid, TAG. Flat calls. Has only done this twice before, calling OOP, and has folded to C bet on each occasion in this session

Flop

 Aspades Th 6c

check to me I bet $22

Flat called

Turn 

 Kh

checked to me  I bet $60

He calls

River a blank

 3c

checked to me a third time

Having been check called twice by a solid player I am fearing a set. Despite no value bet from him (I know he knows that I must have a hand to fire twice, so he thinks I'll bet), I check behind


Thoughts please

I'm more likely to be missing a third bet here? Or more likely behind?

 

I feel I got to Value Bet here.

You could be behind, but I think you are ahead more often than not, and it is unlikely he has been calling on any sort of draw, therefore will possibly call a bet on the end.

Not impossible he has played AT, AJ, AQ like this.

I've been playing a bit of full ring recently and people are a lot lot tighter than 6 max, I would put his range at AQ,AK, a set or a slight possibility that he had QJ sooted, and then do an EV calc. Trouble is it would take me 2 hours and I'd still get it wrong :) With 30 secs to decide I would prob be scared of getting raised off the hand if he has AK and as the only hand I'm beating that may call is AQ I'd check.

May have A10, i dont think he has you beat here often enough to warrant a check... Approx $200 in pot, I value bet $80...

Check Turn, Call/Bet River?

I'm just checking - while full ring players might show down a hand that theoretically would call a river bet e.g. AQ, they usually fold these to a TAG's river bet.  He prob has AK as well.

he has top top (AQ? )

He had a set of 10 as it happens

Two check calls got me worried, correctly, but I was wondering whether I "should" in a sense of playing optimal poker, stacked off

i was gonna say a solid TAG at that limit will very rarely check-call twice without two pair at least.
wp by just checking behind. you can take comfort in the fact he probably cursed you for it!

you can still value bet on the river and not stack off surely?

Yeah i agree with this surely we can bet this river for value, and then fold to a shove.

What's calling?

AQ, if this is a game where AQ is not calling im off to find another game, definitley A10, hell even maybe AJ. One of may major cash flop leaks that im trying to plug is value betting and this seems a very clear value bet.

I dont think this is a good spot to extend your v-betting range i.e. TAG vs TAG who both know this.  If I was a looser player or the villain was looser it would be a v-bet.  Prob always a v-bet in 6 handed.

I agree doubleup.

Also is the TAG likely to call a raise (from another TAG) OOP with AJ or A10?

solid TAGs at this limit would want to know where they are by the turn though.

I'm a TAG?


By the way I bet flop and turn c3/4 of the pot each versus another TAG and when it came to river I still didn't know where I was....by the end I correctly deduced the chances were I was behind

if you bet a 3rd of the pot on the river you would get action of aq, aj. it's a cutoff raise so i still think aq & aj are possible defence from the blinds.

Hmmm the problem with making these weak river bets is that you are begging to be check-raised and that can lead you into some tough spots.  If you are good enough to get the resulting decisions correct then ok, but I'm not, so I think that any extra value I would gain from the river bet would disappear in one or two bad mistakes.

Given this is 2/4 a check raise from a small river bet becomes a possibilty. I would be interested in how often this happens at the mid/high stakes games, if you are c/r'd on the river 100NL or below your opponent has a monster like 99% of the time.

Also as I have learnt i use to think I was a TAG and i was wrong i was in fact a weak tight nit, in this situation if you only ever double barrel with a hand as strong ak, you are NOT a TAG.

Meh maybe this is why i don't play full ring anymore if I can't vbet ak here, i have no interest in playing this type of game.

I think mariners line is right. V bet it then get away from a raise.

I think given the read from tighty, the chances of this guy c/r the river on a bluff happens so rarely you dont need to worry about getting pushed off the best hand.. I mean, what hand does he get to the river like this, given his read, that will suddenly c/r the river on a bluff? The only hands that might do it are one pair hands like A/x that are turning their hand into a bluff to get better aces/aces up to fold, but that doesn't really correlate with the image tighty gives us.

Whether he would call 3 streets against  tightys likely image with AQ AJ is another thing, so I think that betting/not betting here has to correlate with the overall play of the session, for a looser player, betting is correct, for a tightwad, checking is prolly best.


qft

I agree. Having passed to flop bets twice previously, the calls to your flop and turn bets indicates a set all day for me. Good check saved you here. As stated you didn't have enough info betting up to the river and was only likely to lose more money trying to find out what you saw for free by checking.