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Title: EPT buy-ins Post by: snoopy1239 on October 27, 2007, 06:03:39 PM After speaking to various folk around the circuit, it has come to my attention that the increased buy-in has truly put off a host of British players.
At 5k a pop, even some of the bigger UK names are having second thoughts, and that includes sponsored players, the sponsor being forced to reconsider what is now a massive investment to buy their player(s) into a year of EPT events. A lot of what I hear is the same: "Why would we want to play the EPT at the moment. Events like the GUKPT are easily accessible and creating six figures for first prize themselves. Besides, the standard is high in EPTs, so where's the value?" With this in mind, have the EPT made a boo boo in increasing their buy-in and subsequently putting off a large British contingent? Are they really happy with it being the Scandinavian Poker Tour? Does anyone think that a time will come when these large buy-ins get too much and will return to their original price? Personally, I hope they do decrease at some stage, or at least some cheaper ones offered. With new venues being added all the time, it's just too expensive, even for some of the bigger players. Similalry, qualification is now harder as the package is now worth more. I'd hate to see an elitism in poker where the EPT attracts the same affluent players each time with very few small times players getting 'a shot'. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: KingPoker on October 27, 2007, 06:22:43 PM I think it surely will have to be lowered for the next season.
and not just for the sponsored players, i would love to play in an EPT but the only way i could ever do it would be to Sat in and i havent checked but now surely the buy ins for them have gone up a fairly significant amount or if not then surely the number of added seats has which makes it much less value for someone like me to be able to try and qualify for more than one EPT event. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: doubleup on October 27, 2007, 06:29:27 PM I suppose they consider that the WPT runs at $10k a pop so they should be the same level. They are getting sizeable fields so you can't really criticise them.
Unfortunately for the likes of me it's way too much. I went thru £14k in entries and exs in my first few month's of going full time and that was just a couple of €3k events, a few 1ks and few supporting events. So starting grinding on cash had to be the way to go. I do play the odd satellite, but can't see me ever stumping up the full entry. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: ripple11 on October 27, 2007, 07:52:57 PM After speaking to various folk around the circuit, it has come to my attention that the increased buy-in has truly put off a host of British players. At 5k a pop, even some of the bigger UK names are having second thoughts, and that includes sponsored players, the sponsor being forced to reconsider what is now a massive investment to buy their player(s) into a year of EPT events. A lot of what I hear is the same: "Why would we want to play the EPT at the moment. Events like the GUKPT are easily accessible and creating six figures for first prize themselves. Besides, the standard is high in EPTs, so where's the value?" With this in mind, have the EPT made a boo boo in increasing their buy-in and subsequently putting off a large British contingent? Are they really happy with it being the Scandinavian Poker Tour? Does anyone think that a time will come when these large buy-ins get too much and will return to their original price? Personally, I hope they do decrease at some stage, or at least some cheaper ones offered. With new venues being added all the time, it's just too expensive, even for some of the bigger players. Similalry, qualification is now harder as the package is now worth more. I'd hate to see an elitism in poker where the EPT attracts the same affluent players each time with very few small times players getting 'a shot'. good point snoops....I emailed John Duthie the similar point....still waiting a reply!! Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: kinboshi on October 27, 2007, 08:12:00 PM I guess a greater percentage of seats will be made up from qualifiers from now on.
Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: thediceman on October 27, 2007, 08:41:11 PM Weren't the lower buyin events sold out???. If that was the case and they get full houses at the higher buyin I suspect they won't give a stuff if Brit's attend or not.
Maybe there looking to attract more of the big name americans and I'm sure online qualifiers can always make up the numbers. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: neeko on October 27, 2007, 09:14:04 PM below link {if alowed - otherwise EPT homepage - EPT results tab} shows the results for all previous seasons.
http://www.europeanpokertour.com/at_a_glance.html (http://www.europeanpokertour.com/at_a_glance.html) EPT barca (2004) €1000 entry !!!! (229 players) (if only it was now) This is so sad to calculate this - (but my tourney is very boring) EPT season 1 24% qualifiers (~€2k buyin) EPT season 2 18% qualifiers (~€4k buyin) EPT season 3 22% qualifiers (~€5k buyin) EPT season 4 14% qualifiers (~€8k buyin) [so far] This year [€8000] Barca 543/600 London 392/500 Baden 282/400 Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: snoopy1239 on October 28, 2007, 03:17:04 PM This is something they wouldn't gain much from doing, but I wonder what people would make of an EPT, say in Poland or something, where all players had to qualify via a satellite to play, much like the current Grosvenor Grand Prix.
From what I understand, the EPT has only 2 starting days. If they just add another day, like the recent London GUKPT, they could squeeze in the extra demand whilst still making the Tour accessible to British and amateur players with a €5k buy-in. However, I guess they're still a business in the end, and this wouldn't be cost effective, so can understand why they opted to rise the buy-in instead. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: tikay on October 28, 2007, 03:35:40 PM It's now way beyond the reach of most of us, and it's really a vehicle for 'Stars Qualifiers & Sponsored Pros, but as long as it pretty much sells out at most venues, John Duthie ain't likely to lower the Buy-In. Sad, but true, it's just business. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Fatboydim on October 29, 2007, 01:30:13 AM I agree Snoops. I asked John Duthie at the press conference in Barca why the increase and his answer confirmed my suspicions that he is trying to turn the EPT into an elitist series. His reply was that the Pros don't want five day tournaments and so in an effort to keep them as four day events the buy in was increased. Less pressure on the calendar. I don't get the impression that this weeks event will get more runners than last year. Especially since there are so many value tournaments around.
I will be playing it but only because of sponsorship. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: dealerFROMhell on October 29, 2007, 02:06:49 AM You cant blame John Duthie for wanting to keep the buy-in so high. At the end of the day the EPT is a high-profile tournament that showcases the best players Europe has to offer.
He isn't obliged to cater to middle level players. The "host of British players" that you refer to are more than likely better suited to the GUKPT or some of the £500+ festival events around the country. Europe needs a high buy-in poker competition to rival the states, and the player numbers adequately justify this. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Ironside on October 29, 2007, 02:15:25 AM personally i think there should be several levels for poker players
there is the local weekly comps there is the APAt for those of us on a budget wanting to play a 2 day comp then there is the festivals most casinos have once a year and monthly freezeouts then the gukpt and the gbpt then the ept then the wpt and wsop i think that there should be a difference between all the levels otherwise whats the points of differnet tours you play at your own level me personally i am somewhere between the local weekly games and the festival comps arent designed to be open an accessable to all or they would all be freerolls as i know some people that are struggling to get £25 together to play a small comp Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: dealerFROMhell on October 29, 2007, 02:22:43 AM Well, the APAT is below most casinos highest buy-in weekly comp...
Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Ironside on October 29, 2007, 02:41:49 AM Well, the APAT is below most casinos highest buy-in weekly comp... wrong casinos are foing what the punters want now £10 £25 £50 freezeouts are popular some casinos even supllying dealers for these small comps not everyone plays in the vic where they need to get people paying higher fees ect to pay for the cost of having such a prime location Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: thediceman on October 29, 2007, 09:39:52 AM then the ept then the wpt and wsop Personally7 I don't see why there should be any gap between the ept and the wpt/wsop events. The clear divide hear is geographical. Why shouldn't europe try and put on events to rival the wpt/wsop. The only defining factor in the ept events, as in any event, is demand and if the demand still exists at the higher level then so be it. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Ironside on October 29, 2007, 10:37:19 AM then the ept then the wpt and wsop Personally7 I don't see why there should be any gap between the ept and the wpt/wsop events. The clear divide hear is geographical. Why shouldn't europe try and put on events to rival the wpt/wsop. The only defining factor in the ept events, as in any event, is demand and if the demand still exists at the higher level then so be it. only difference i see is a bit like football you have the euro champs then the world cup with both being important but the world cup being slightly more important personally i would prefer to see a range of comps inbetween the gukpt and the wsop with a buy in range of about £2-4k so people can progress slower up the ladder instead of jumping from one big win on the gukpt to then be facing £5k buy ins which even after winning a gukpt you only have about 20-30 comps before the well runs dry Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Milkybarkid on October 29, 2007, 11:13:37 AM It's because they didn't want to move to a situation where they would need three day ones. Most players wouldn't want to play Day1 (a) if there was then a two day wait to play again!
Maybe at some of the bigger venues that can take 300 players a day they could reduce it back to where it was. The prize pools haven't really been affected by the increase in the buy in which is what they were looking for i guess. Its above what most players can stump up unless sponsored. Some of my mates used to have the odd shot.... but at £5000+ a pop its too much. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on October 29, 2007, 11:14:29 AM then the ept then the wpt and wsop Personally7 I don't see why there should be any gap between the ept and the wpt/wsop events. The clear divide hear is geographical. Why shouldn't europe try and put on events to rival the wpt/wsop. The only defining factor in the ept events, as in any event, is demand and if the demand still exists at the higher level then so be it. Yes - I'd imagine this is what John is planning. He sees the EPT with a great chance to become much bigger than the WPT (which took a hit with the pullout of the US market by many poker rooms). Not increasing the buy-ins leaves a space for the WSOP to make inroads (as they have begun to with dipping their toe in with the WSOPE). John wouldn't want to see a situation where the WSOP starts a circuit-type series which then competes with the EPT when it comes to getting TV coverage. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: dealerFROMhell on October 29, 2007, 02:11:13 PM Well, the APAT is below most casinos highest buy-in weekly comp... wrong casinos are foing what the punters want now £10 £25 £50 freezeouts are popular some casinos even supllying dealers for these small comps not everyone plays in the vic where they need to get people paying higher fees ect to pay for the cost of having such a prime location There is a good ratio of casinos that off at least one £100 competition on a weekly basis. Whether it be a freezeout, or with one rebuy. Or even a £50 re-buy. As far as The Vic goes, it's naive to say that they rely on the Card Room to cover their running costs. It's almost inconsequential when compared to the table drop. The reason they have higher buy-in competitions is down to the fact that players in London simply have more money available than provincial players. And it also attracts bigger punters. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Ironside on October 29, 2007, 06:24:33 PM my point about the vic was they rely on getting people out of the card room and into the table games to get money to cover costs
Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Irishdenis on October 30, 2007, 11:46:47 AM Surely the real question is not the cost of an event. In my opinion I see a lot of players who were week in week out travelling the length of the country to play in events. The reason for this was two fold. The buy in was manageable and the strike rate for final tables was high. Now with less and less dead money the strike rate is less.
Just think about the burn rate on your money. If it was a business would you do it ! ! ! Average entry fee £1000 Rake £100 / £150 Hotel 2 nights £150 Travel £100 If you take these costs as an average and with lets say 300 runners the prize structure and burn rate would be as follows Total costs of event £1350 / £1400 They will pay the final 30 players. Normally 30 down to 20 get their money back £1000. Good news so far you have to beat 270 players to make a loss of £350 / £400. If you make the last two tables this will normally need another day. £70 for hotel min. For this you are guaranteed £2000 so a profit of £530 for three days work. Not until you final table do you earn real money. Lets say £10k -£13k - £17k etc How many final tables would you expect to make. A number of years ago you could say six to ten a year. Now if you make two you are doing OK. So unless you win one of these then you make a loss for the year. The situation is worse if you travel earlier in the week to some of the smaller events. The overheads remain but the prize pool is lower. I have to say this is one of the reasons I don't travel as much. I was away from work so much it was costing me a fortune. The only way to make the circuit work is to play cash. The downside is you might do your boll...s. The upside is you can make more in a few hours than all but the final table. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on October 30, 2007, 11:56:36 AM I would say that there is no player whose edge over an average EPT field is greater than that needed to cover costs - ie playing the EPT tournament circuit without a sponsor is -EV for everyone.
In the olden days of tournament poker, just about any unknown player could be safely assumed to be dead money. Not so now - that kid has played 50 million MTTs in his bedroom and knows his stuff. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: TightEnd on October 30, 2007, 11:56:42 AM Good post
I haven't played a fesitval event since February. Some of the reasons why are contained in that post Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: doubleup on October 30, 2007, 12:14:27 PM Good post I haven't played a fesitval event since February. Some of the reasons why are contained in that post Hmmm I'm pretty much the same and have decided only to play festivals in places that I actually enjoy going to and have smaller fields buy-ins. BUT the EPT fields are still holding up, so who is playing them? There really aren't that many sposored players and cash internet grinders surely aren't plonking down a month's profit? Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: The Camel on October 30, 2007, 12:21:01 PM I would say that there is no player whose edge over an average EPT field is greater than that needed to cover costs - ie playing the EPT tournament circuit without a sponsor is -EV for everyone. In the olden days of tournament poker, just about any unknown player could be safely assumed to be dead money. Not so now - that kid has played 50 million MTTs in his bedroom and knows his stuff. This is so wrong it's almost laughable. Let's take the EPT Barcelona for a player from London: Flight £100 Hotel for a week £400 Food/Drink/Misc £200 Juice on the tournament £200 That's £900 expenses on a tournament of approx £5000. (And this is without buying in through pokerstars using w$ which you can buy at 92%.. saving £450 of your buyin). Are you seriously saying Ram Vaswani, Julian Thew, Roland de Wolfe John Kabbaj and several others haven't got a 40% edge on the field? If you are... I feel a prop bet for season 5 coming up.. I pick 10 players over the course of the whole of the EPT season and we add up the totals of their buyin and see if they make a profit of more than 40% over the course of the whole season. Are you up for this? Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on October 30, 2007, 12:33:39 PM I would say that there is no player whose edge over an average EPT field is greater than that needed to cover costs - ie playing the EPT tournament circuit without a sponsor is -EV for everyone. In the olden days of tournament poker, just about any unknown player could be safely assumed to be dead money. Not so now - that kid has played 50 million MTTs in his bedroom and knows his stuff. This is so wrong it's almost laughable. Let's take the EPT Barcelona for a player from London: Flight £100 Hotel for a week £400 Food/Drink/Misc £200 Juice on the tournament £200 That's £900 expenses on a tournament of approx £5000. (And this is without buying in through pokerstars using w$ which you can buy at 92%.. saving £450 of your buyin). Are you seriously saying Ram (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359) Vaswani (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359), Julian (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225) Thew (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225), Roland (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) De Wolfe (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) John (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=215) Kabbaj (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=215) and several others haven't got a 40% edge on the field? If you are... I feel a prop bet for season 5 coming up.. I pick 10 players over the course of the whole of the EPT season and we add up the totals of their buyin and see if they make a profit of more than 40% over the course of the whole season. Are you up for this? I don't think they have a 40% edge. I'll take you up on it - pick your ten players. I'd guess we probably have different levels of stakes which we would respectively find meaningful but I'd have, say £250 with you. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: doubleup on October 30, 2007, 12:45:42 PM Camel, I think you are missing the point of the thread, the buyins are too high for most players. You could be good enough to get in money 20% of the time and it would not be statistically remarkable to go 20 tourneys without getting a payout. This means that regular players of these events are either hugely bankrolled, backed in some way or mostly heading for busto land.
Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: The Camel on October 30, 2007, 01:37:18 PM Camel, I think you are missing the point of the thread, the buyins are too high for most players. You could be good enough to get in money 20% of the time and it would not be statistically remarkable to go 20 tourneys without getting a payout. This means that regular players of these events are either hugely bankrolled, backed in some way or mostly heading for busto land. I agree with almost everything you say.. I do think the buyins are too high. 5000 euro for the regular events and 10k for the Monte Carlo finale was just right IMO. But I was just disagreeing with Andrew's assertion that EPT's were -ev for everyone. £250 is fine. Sounds like we've got a bet. My team of 10: Praz (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=353) Bansi (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=353) Johnny (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=606) Lodden (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=606) Julian (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225) Thew (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225) William Thorson Ram (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359) Vaswani (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359) Stuart (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=419) Fox (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=419) Roland (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) De Wolfe (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) Jan (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=591) Sjavik (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=591) Julian (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=224) Gardner (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=224) Luca (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=995) Pagano (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=995) Just to confirm we add the sum total of all the buyins these players actually play (not including the juice because I included that in the expenses calculation) and then add the total amount of money cashed by these players in next years EPT's. If the latter figure is 40% more or higher than the first figure I win. If it isn't you win. Deal? Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Tractor on October 30, 2007, 01:42:44 PM (http://picnic.ciao.com/uk/2836092.jpg)
Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on October 30, 2007, 02:46:50 PM Camel, I think you are missing the point of the thread, the buyins are too high for most players. You could be good enough to get in money 20% of the time and it would not be statistically remarkable to go 20 tourneys without getting a payout. This means that regular players of these events are either hugely bankrolled, backed in some way or mostly heading for busto land. I agree with almost everything you say.. I do think the buyins are too high. 5000 euro for the regular events and 10k for the Monte Carlo finale was just right IMO. But I was just disagreeing with Andrew's assertion that EPT's were -ev for everyone. £250 is fine. Sounds like we've got a bet. My team of 10: Praz (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=353) Bansi (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=353) Johnny (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=606) Lodden (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=606) Julian (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225) Thew (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225) William Thorson Ram (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359) Vaswani (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359) Stuart (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=419) Fox (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=419) Roland (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) De Wolfe (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) Jan (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=591) Sjavik (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=591) Julian (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=224) Gardner (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=224) Luca (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=995) Pagano (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=995) Just to confirm we add the sum total of all the buyins these players actually play (not including the juice because I included that in the expenses calculation) and then add the total amount of money cashed by these players in next year's EPT's. If the latter figure is 40% more or higher than the first figure I win. If it isn't you win. Deal? Deal. Though it does mean I'll be reading EPT updates hoping for popular players to get knocked out. :) If all of them play all events the buyins will be around €580,000. *hopes for a good EPT season for Mateyboys* Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: MKKfish on October 31, 2007, 04:00:51 AM I think you've just been mugged..
All it will take is just one of those 10 to win an event and you're farked. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on October 31, 2007, 10:11:54 AM I think you've just been mugged.. All it will take is just one of those 10 to win an event and you're farked. Maybe, but I made a statement asserting a particular point of view and so have to put my money where my mouth is. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: snoopy1239 on October 31, 2007, 07:57:14 PM Camel, I think you are missing the point of the thread, the buyins are too high for most players. You could be good enough to get in money 20% of the time and it would not be statistically remarkable to go 20 tourneys without getting a payout. This means that regular players of these events are either hugely bankrolled, backed in some way or mostly heading for busto land. I agree with almost everything you say.. I do think the buyins are too high. 5000 euro for the regular events and 10k for the Monte Carlo finale was just right IMO. But I was just disagreeing with Andrew's assertion that EPT's were -ev for everyone. £250 is fine. Sounds like we've got a bet. My team of 10: Praz (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=353) Bansi (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=353) Johnny (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=606) Lodden (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=606) Julian (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225) Thew (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225) William Thorson Ram (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359) Vaswani (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359) Stuart (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=419) Fox (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=419) Roland (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) De Wolfe (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) Jan (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=591) Sjavik (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=591) Julian (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=224) Gardner (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=224) Luca (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=995) Pagano (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=995) Just to confirm we add the sum total of all the buyins these players actually play (not including the juice because I included that in the expenses calculation) and then add the total amount of money cashed by these players in next years EPT's. If the latter figure is 40% more or higher than the first figure I win. If it isn't you win. Deal? I'm afraid it hasn't been a great start for your boys here in Dublin, Camel. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Irishdenis on November 01, 2007, 01:20:54 AM Hold on a minute Keith.... Where did you get your figures from. £200 for a week of drinks and food.... No wonder your not on the list...At least you put Stuart in to even it up. Your list is also interesting in so far as it contains a number of win or bust players. A good idea in my opinion. The real killer is the grinders who just make the money. Overall they have to go bust in my opinion.
Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: The Camel on November 01, 2007, 01:35:27 AM Hold on a minute Keith.... Where did you get your figures from. £200 for a week of drinks and food.... No wonder your not on the list...At least you put Stuart in to even it up. Your list is also interesting in so far as it contains a number of win or bust players. A good idea in my opinion. The real killer is the grinders who just make the money. Overall they have to go bust in my opinion. Win or bust is the way to win at tournament poker IMO Denis (that's why I always oppose flattening of payout structures)... you are better off with one first place than 5 7th's. And that's how it should be I reckon... and that's why I play like a maniac ;)... there is some method in my madness... And snoopy... the bet start's with the first event of the next season (I assume Barca 2008).. so I don't give a monkey's who wins this event ;yippee; Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AlrightJack on November 01, 2007, 01:40:09 AM I don't give a monkey's who wins this event ;yippee; Next year you will give a monkey's to win a Sampras. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on November 01, 2007, 10:20:27 AM And snoopy... the bet start's with the first event of the next season (I assume Barca 2008).. so I don't give a monkey's who wins this event ;yippee; I was going on the basis it started with this one in Dublin and ran through to the end of this season in Monte Carlo in April. Why would I make a bet now that doesn't start for a year? Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: byronkincaid on November 01, 2007, 10:23:57 AM And snoopy... the bet start's with the first event of the next season (I assume Barca 2008).. so I don't give a monkey's who wins this event ;yippee; I was going on the basis it started with this one in Dublin and ran through to the end of this season in Monte Carlo in April. Why would I make a bet now that doesn't start for a year? Quote I feel a prop bet for season 5 coming up.. I pick 10 players over the course of the whole of the EPT season Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on November 01, 2007, 12:09:33 PM And snoopy... the bet start's with the first event of the next season (I assume Barca 2008).. so I don't give a monkey's who wins this event ;yippee; I was going on the basis it started with this one in Dublin and ran through to the end of this season in Monte Carlo in April. Why would I make a bet now that doesn't start for a year? Quote I feel a prop bet for season 5 coming up.. I pick 10 players over the course of the whole of the EPT season Er, I didn't see that bit - I just assumed we were talking about this season. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: The Camel on November 01, 2007, 01:15:57 PM And snoopy... the bet start's with the first event of the next season (I assume Barca 2008).. so I don't give a monkey's who wins this event ;yippee; I was going on the basis it started with this one in Dublin and ran through to the end of this season in Monte Carlo in April. Why would I make a bet now that doesn't start for a year? Quote I feel a prop bet for season 5 coming up.. I pick 10 players over the course of the whole of the EPT season Er, I didn't see that bit - I just assumed we were talking about this season. Sorry I didn't make it clearer.. I wanted to have a full EPT season to cut down on variance obviously. The way I see it there is 3 options: 1. Have the bet starting at this tournament in Dublin for the rest of season 4 2. Have the bet starting at the next tournament at Prague for the rest of season 4 3. Have the bet for the whole of season 5. I'm happy to let an independent arbitor (maybe Tikay, Robert HM or IrishDenis if any of them has 2 minutes) to read through the thread and decide which option is most appropriate. Or if you agree to option 2 as a comprimise we can save all the hassle as it seems the fairest to me.. Let me know. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on November 01, 2007, 01:24:00 PM Yeah - start it at Prague.
You might want to go double or quits when we get to season 5 anyway :) Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: ripple11 on November 02, 2007, 02:51:53 PM Jon Duthie has replied to this EPT buy-in dilemma on THM. Acknowledging Dublin has seen very dissappointing numbers, he says Prague advance numbers are more encouraging. He makes the point that he's certainly willing to listen to what the majority of players want, so I guess the increased buy-in is not set in stone for next season. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: portfolio on November 02, 2007, 03:57:22 PM It's now way beyond the reach of most of us, and it's really a vehicle for 'Stars Qualifiers & Sponsored Pros, but as long as it pretty much sells out at most venues, John (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=209) Duthie (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=209) ain't likely to lower the Buy-In. Sad, but true, it's just business. raketastically correct. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: byronkincaid on November 03, 2007, 05:21:35 PM why is dublin not being televised?
Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: snoopy1239 on November 03, 2007, 09:01:48 PM why is dublin not being televised? Because the television budget can't cater for the extended schedule and so the odd EPT has to be sacrificed. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: robyong on November 05, 2007, 02:53:34 PM The buy-ins are now too high, although I think 10k euros for the Grand Final at Montle Carlo is fine.
I would have 5k euros personally and 10k euros for the final, pre book only and Pokerstars as the sponsor should make it clear what % of seats they are purchasing before the season starts (not > 20% IMO). However, happy for them to have the monopoly on internet qualification as they are the EPT sponsor. John Duffie makes it really easy for you to pre book seats and has done a brilliant job IMO Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on April 21, 2008, 08:32:23 PM £250 is fine. Sounds like we've got a bet. My team of 10: Praz (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=353) Bansi (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=353) Johnny (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=606) Lodden (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=606) Julian (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225) Thew (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=225) William Thorson Ram (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359) Vaswani (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=359) Stuart (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=419) Fox (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=419) Roland (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) De Wolfe (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=384) Jan (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=591) Sjavik (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=591) Julian (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=224) Gardner (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=224) Luca (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=995) Pagano (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=995) Just to confirm we add the sum total of all the buyins these players actually play (not including the juice because I included that in the expenses calculation) and then add the total amount of money cashed by these players in next years EPT's. If the latter figure is 40% more or higher than the first figure I win. If it isn't you win. Deal? Remember this? Luca Pagano's 6th place in Monte Carlo has cost me £250. Without that I'd have won. :( Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: action man on April 21, 2008, 10:40:01 PM never bet vs the camel, channing and ward, these guys were betting their school teachers on their grades ....and winning
Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: 77dave on April 22, 2008, 09:18:09 AM What were the final figures. How close was it?
Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AndrewT on April 22, 2008, 09:25:16 AM What were the final figures. How close was it? I did draw up a spreadsheet on my home computer - I think Keith won by $450,000, and Luca's Monte Carlo cash was $515,000. About half of Keith's picks played just about no EPTs, which made the amount of buy-ins quite low. Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: Simon Galloway on April 22, 2008, 09:40:12 AM Didn't see this first time around. You got yourself well and truly 'Camelled'
Any one of those players cops a big score and you lose (as you just found out) For next season, ask Keith to pick 10 players with the bet being that more than half of them show a profit... Title: Re: EPT buy-ins Post by: AlexMartin on April 23, 2008, 05:00:35 AM Didn't see this first time around. You got yourself well and truly 'Camelled' Any one of those players cops a big score and you lose (as you just found out) For next season, ask Keith to pick 10 players with the bet being that more than half of them show a profit... yeah, just seen this, was a bad bet imo Andrew. |