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Have they actually done anything to stop idiots setting of fireworks before November 5th in your area?     As far as I can see there has been absolutely no improvement, morons are still setting them off just the same as they always have. 

I hate this time of year, it is impossible to predict when an idiot will decide to let one off and as a result planning walks for the dogs is  very difficult.

A few days ago I heard a women telling her friend that one of her neighbors sons had been injured with a firework,  I think I was the only person who thought this was a positive thing as sadly it is the only way for these people to learn they are dangerous things and should not be messed with. At least now he will not plague society for many years to come. He will tell his Kids to stay away from them.

Why do they sell them weeks before the actual night?    Why allow junkies/neds to buy them?  Isn't it obvious they are going to break the law and illegally set them off before November 5th in a public place?     

The laws aren't working in my opinion

A little difficult to police really.

They have to sell them before the 5th - so people have them for the day.  They only get a small window in terms of when they are in demand (much like pumpkins from what I've seen in the supermarket) - so the sellers are going to sell them to anyone who want to buy them.

How are the police supposed to crack down on people using them when they shouldn't?

yeah everyone who wants to buy a firework should have to have a drugs test first!

Our rabbits hate it as well.

Each Village/Community should have a couple of appointed people who are respected by the local residents.  For example the local Scout leader or Fireman, etc..  He/She should be the only people who are allowed access to the fireworks until the actual night.  Sadly people in general cannot be trusted and are incapable of handling the fireworks in a sensible way.  Selling to the public will result in them being used in an illegal way.  I would like to see properly organised displays and the banning of casual use of fireworks by members of the public

It's not illegal to set them off on other days, so why would they stop people?

ok,  I maybe overreacted with that one  :D .  The other day I was in Morrisons and a couple of little neds who were about 15/16 were buying a box of fireworks.  If I had £1 million , I would bet anyone that they are not a box of fireworks anymore and are the remains of a box of fireworks.  They would be mentally unable to wait untill the actual day and would have set them off the very night he bought them.  It seems crazy to me that anyone can buy explosives.  

I told the story before of the junkie on the bus who let off a firework last year.  He was upstairs and I saw what was about to happen and moved downstairs. A few minutes later a big bang sounded through the bus, the driver screeched to a hault and went upstairs.  The junkie pleaded his innocence with cries of  "It wasne me big man....  I dinny dae nothing man....f...ks  sake I didne day it man".  The sad thing was the guy wasn't a Kid, he was an adult of about 30 years old.  The Public in general cannot be trusted and it should only be appointed people who are allowed to handle them.

Wouldn't trust a local scout leader with a sparkler.

the public sale of fireworks should be banned entirely

 
Sark, please consider the following.....

People were fooling around with fireworks in an irresponsible manner 10/20/30 years ago. Yet you don't see any adults playing with fireworks in the street now. (Asides from the rare junkie on a bus)

If the following were true of firework accidents....

sadly it is the only way for these people to learn

Then every single one of them must have gotten a serious firework injury at some point. Either that or perhpas there is maybe some sort of natural maturation process that us humans go through. Which is more likely?


Furthermore, the assumption that someone who injures themselves will stop doing something potentially harmful is not always true. I know folk who have overdosed on drugs, gotten run down in the street etc. Yet soon after they are out of hospital they are back on their poison, ignoring crossings, whatever.
When I was a smoker, a nasty bout of midnight coughing or a heart twinge wouldn't stop me buying a pack of Malboro in the morning.


I find your complete faith that someone injuring themselves is a good thing to be disturbing. I find your reasoning that such an event will miraculously cure a youth from being, as you so dramatically put - a plague on society - to be lacking in substance. 
For all you know, the injury could just serve to increase the aura of danger and coolness surrounding fireworks. Instead of getting bored with the things, the nutters who hear the story have their interest in explosives retained by the perverse possibility that somebody could actually get hurt tonight. Before you dismiss this, ask why the circus act is called the high wire and not the one metre off the ground wire.


Your posts makes me wonder if you would wish for all your local non-chess club teens to be put in hospital so that your dog wouldn't be as hard to walk for a fortnight next year.

After making sure that he has his emergency exit plan sorted, and that his furniture is of the slowly combustable variety, the local officious fireman gets a knock on the door from Sark and the local branch of the Hitler Youth.

"Control group 456's annual ration of highly explosive fireworks has arrived from Big Brother. Would you be so kind as to store them 12 deep in your spare room for a month. Ta."

"Dunno if that's a good idea, I could leave a bucket of sand in the hall I suppose?"

But it was too late, Sark and his footsoldiers had seen a boy in the next street wearing a jumper looking the the wrong way at a squirrel. They efficiently go and beat him to death with copies of the Daily Mail.

I honestly believe that Kids who are willing to set of fireworks in the street also lack respect for authority.  This lack of respect for the law and other people mean that in order to send them a message that fireworks are dangerous, they have to be injured by the firework or have a friend injured by the firework.  More than injuring the individual,  a potential outcome of this unfortunate event happening may be a move by Government to ban the sale of fireworks to the public.  No amount of education or horror stories will deter a ned from having his 30 seconds of fun hearing a loud bang.

If you consider an area of road that has a reputation for being dangerous.  Year after year people say "someone is going to get hurt on that stretch of road one of these days".  When a bad accident eventually happens and someone is badly injured or even killed, only then is action taken to alter or fix the hazardous road section.  This is almost always by public protest.  

I would have said the same thing 30 years ago and I will say the same 30 years from now.  Fireworks are dangerous, they scare animals and should only be used at organised events.

"Your posts makes me wonder if you would wish for all your local non-chess club teens put in hospital so that your dog wouldn't be as hard to walk for a fortnight next year".

I don't want to answer this one  :D .  

I am more concerned for my dogs wellfare than a bunch of idiots who lack respect for other people.  Unfortunately my dog has no rights and people do regardless of their actions.  

lol 

sark sort it out mate, calm down.

Theres been 2 shootings on the estate where i live in the last two weeks(one fatal) and about 6 all together in the last 3 months in the surrounding area, seeing a multitude of colours rising into the sky after hearing a loud bang outside my gaff before fireworks night is a welcome relief.

get a bit of perspective mate.

These are my views and I will change them for nobody.  I am perfectly calm Bolt.  What does shootings have to do with my firework question anyway? 

Barking and Dagenham sent round information with which dates fireworks could be set off, and between which times.  I cannot remember the exact dates but it included EID and Diwali as well as Bonfire night.

It also said that shop owners were to be fined if caught selling fireworks to under aged people and they were only allowed to sell them on certain dates (something like a week before an important date - I did not pay too much attention to be honest).

A telephone number was listed for members of the public to call if they saw any shopkeepers selling on any of the dates not listed, and if anyone set them off after 11pm.

There has been a considerable decrease in fireworks being set off at all times and all dates (although there has been the odd one or two very late at night) - how much of this is due to the new rules I do not know.  It could just be that I am getting deafer and just can't hear them as much this year  ;D

Yes fireworks are dangerous, as is crossing the road these days, but I for one adore this time of year and love going to organised displays.

I'm big on liberty and freedom of choice. I hate the nanny state, but...

I once saw a pregnant mare that had to be shot where she lay at the bottom of a ditch after fleeing in terror from youths throwing fireworks. She had a broken leg, and was cut to ribbons by the barbed wire that entangled her.

I've seen big tough dogs that would face a lion without batting an eyelid cowering in a corner so scared of the fireworks that they lose controll of their bowells.

I've seen a cat running through the streets with a lighted firework tied around it's neck.

Every year dozens of young people are maimed. Hundreds of old people are deliberately tormented, and literally millions of animals are terrified by fireworks.

I've seen two boys wrap a fireworks in tape and seal it with candlewax, light it, and push it through the letterbox of a shop. It went off like a bomb blowing the shop window out.

I was one of those boys.

It's time that fireworks were restricted to organised displays only.

People can be gits with all sorts of things though, just because some people aren't capable of acting responsibly with fireworks shouldn't mean that they are banned for everyone else.

So we should all be allowed to carry guns, or keep tigers in the garden?

I would say no but Paul Philips (and millions of americans) says yes and he's a lot cleverer than me.

Terrible stories Red, some people are sick

I agree Graham,  we should not ban fireworks for everyone.  They should be sold to a couple of people within each Community who have been granted a licence for the evening to use them.  If people want to watch fireworks, I am sure putting a couple of pounds into the pot will be welcomed.  Also, if people want to put on a public display and it is properly ( safely ) organised, then applying for a licence should not be too much of an annoyance.

I fear this argument will still be discussed in twenty years time.  I still agree with my above comments in another post.  If I remember back to when I was a Kid,  there was an old Lady who had a wall infront of her house.  On the top of the wall there were three heavy top stones and the end stone was very loose. Kids used to walk along the top of the wall and most days the stone was laying on the ground by nightfall as it had been knocked down by one of the Kids.  The old woman constantly argued with the Mothers of the Kids about the danger of the loose top stone.  The old woman admitted it was dangerous, but if people stayed off her wall then no accident would happen.  The local Council listened to the complaints of the Mothers and took no action towards the old Lady.  Then one morning a Kid was walking along the wall helped by his elderly Grandfather, the stone came loose and fell on the boys Grandfathers leg badly breaking a bone.  Within two weeks, the wall was gone and had been replaced by a wooden fence.  

Sometimes accidents/events have to happen for action to be taken.  I am not in favour of people getting hurt, of course I am not and nobody would be, however any laws banning the use of fireworks at certain times of day will never be respected.  A complete ban for the average man in the street is the only solution.

It's illegal to keep guns without a license and I believe it's also illegal to own tigers.

We're allowed to buy knives in supermarkets, we're are allowed to buy all sorts of things that can be used as weapons.   You can go in to Homebase and buy things that will instantly kill or cause tremendous damage to people.   People need matches or lighters to ignite fireworks - shall we ban them next?

I don't see how restricting firework sales to a few individuals will improve things, they'll become available on black markets the way so many illegal goods are currently.  Who will decide who is capable of buying and using them?  Will they have to go on courses? Who's going to pay for it?  Why is Mr X not capable but Mr Y is when  Mr X has been doing it for years?

Totally disagree with a complete ban.  We live in a country where we have a great freedom, let's not change that.  Sure some bad things happen with fireworks, but bad things happen every day.   More good things happen with responsible people using fireworks, you can't let the actions of a few ruin things for the majority.

We make our own decisions in life, and if some little toe rag wants to blow something up with a firework, then he's going to do it.  If it's not with a firework, it will more than likely be with something else.   

Currently, fireworks can only be brought into Ireland for use in organised displays by professional operators. However a new EU directive will free up the sale of fireworks across member states (sometimes I think their heads are up their butts).

A recent survey has indicated that Ireland and Greece, which both ban consumer fireworks, have the lowest recorded rate of related accidents in the EU. (source Irish Independent).

I think this is a compelling endorsement for fireworks only being used by licensed operators.

I guess if they were illegal and the police knew of an individual who owned black market fireworks, they would have the power to confiscate them.  At the moment anyone can own fireworks and the Police can do nothing about it. So if they were illegal for the average man in the street to own, then at least the law could cease them.

It wouldn't be too difficult to select a responsible person to hold onto them and use them on Nov 5th, every Town has someone who is trusted and responsible. Kilmarnock has two people who could perform this role,  we used to have three but the other guy moved away

I wasn't responding to a question, your posts on this thread evolve far past a single question and IMO are borderline ludicrous but in answer to your question the correlation between the two is that your irrational and unrealistic complaints and proposals(and admonishment of perpetrators) is naive and as a contrast i wanted to display to you a community who not only wholly unconcerned by this "problem" but conversely welcome it, the bang of a firework sounds exactly like a gunshot, you read the reports in the paper and theres always some old dear or some bloke who says"i just thought it was a firework", well such is the prevalence of guncrime in Greenwich now folk are happy when it is, in fact i'll show you a whole community who would write an entirely polarised post to that of yours if they could be assured that kids were running around fireing fireworks for a laugh and not killing eachother dealing drugs.

Just makes me laugh that you keep referring to police involvement as though it could be a priority in even the most rural and peaceful of communities.

Organised firework displays are far better than the usual pathetic efforts of setting off 3 rockets in your back garden.

Bolt, whatever you feel about this matter,  I believe 100% that I am correct.  I have made my feelings clear on this thread and as they are my feelings, they are correct.  I know the Police will not be able to do anything and I apologize if I hadn't made that clear.  In order to make progress ( as I see it ) the only way for idiots to stop using fireworks irresponsibly is for a young Kid to have a serious accident involving a firework.  Sad but true . This will bring about the ban of casual use of fireworks. I am not saying I want this to happen though. 

I can't agree with the tendency to legislate for 'our own good' - be it drugs laws, alcohol licensing, crash helmets or seatbelts I find the making of free choice illegal to be an insiduous trend in how we are governed.

I have to admit that I agree with this view in spite of my earlier comments.

Surely that's the point of many laws - to protect people from themselves and to protect others.

Take the seatbelt law - it's saved lives, both of adults who wouldn't have 'belted up' before the law was introduced, and also children's lives whose parents wouldn't have previously had the sense to make them 'belt up' before the law was in place.

Some people do need protecting from themselves.

I also think it should be law that cyclists have to wear helmets.

I agree with some of the 'freedom of expression/liberty' posts where it applies to personal freedom. Where I do not agree is where a persons actions harm a third/inoocent party.

Fine don't wear a seatbelt but make sure your child does
Fine take drugs but don't mug someone for the money
Fine drink yourself to death but don't drive
Fine shove a firework in your own letter box don't do it to your neighbour
Fine smoke yourself to death but don't blow it in my face in an enclosed space

Some laws whilst appearing to retrict your rights also protect other innocent peoples rights

I've a biker mate who hates wearing a helmet - reckoning it more likely to leave him a quadraplegic - but he's not allowed the choice.

If a person is of sufficent mental ability and age to live in their own house then they should not need legislative protecting. Only where the legislation protects others from the idiots of the world will I be in favour.

If a person is of sufficent mental ability and age to live in their own house then they should not need legislative protecting.
Agree 100% (also if some b@stard comes into that house uninvited he loses all rights -- but thats another story)

Only where the legislation protects others from the idiots of the world will I be in favour.
Agree 100% and this is where, unfortunately, restrictive legislation cannot discriminate between the idiot and the good guy. Therefore come sort of definitive law must exist against certain practices

 ;D

Sark, one of my friends does safety talks in urban Primary schools.

Shall I tell him that what he does in completely useless, the only way kids will learn is through physical pain, disability and disfigurment. Shall I tell him that he only has two options, jack it in completely, or invest in a branding iron.

I've always fancied doing a bit of voluntary work to help out in the community - maybe the role of child torturer might be a fun way to pass the time and know that I am doing good. :)

I think the 'good' uses of shop bought fireworks are far, far outweighed by the negative aspects, so I would be quite happy to see them banned. I wouldn't see it as the thin end of the wedge of infringement of my human rights.

Tank, of course your friend isn't wasting his time.  I am sure education works, but does it work well enough?   It is impossible to find a perfect solution to stop idiots being irresponsible with fireworks.   Didn't I say I didn't want to see people getting injured?  maybe I forgot to mention that.   I don't want to see anyone injured, but as far as I can see this would be the only way to make those in charge bring in a law banning the sale of fireworks to the average man in the street.  Is it wrong to have this belief and actually say it?    All I want is for fireworks to only be sold to licenced individuals.    

I have my belief that I firmly believe to be correct.   Other people have their view that they hold to be correct.   We are all different,  I will still completely trust my judgement even if a double decker bus full of behavioral psychologists tell me I am wrong.  

He can reckon what he wants, but helmets save lives.  I was actually referring to push-bikes.  In Australia the law makes it mandatory to where a cycle helmet.  A friend of mine was cycling along a road and a parked car pulled out on him, he went over the car and his head struck the windscreen of an oncoming car.  He got up and walked away with cuts and bruises.  He said that he wouldn't have been wearing a helmet if the law hadn't demanded it - he never used to wear one in the UK.


A motorcyclist who wants to ride his bike without a helmet - I'd say your mate is one who needs legislation to protect him from himself.

The death to accident ratio in States that do not require helmet usage is virtually identical to that of States that do.   In fact, in Oregon, the death to accident ratio nearly doubled for the first few years that the mandatory helmet law was in force.  Twelve years later, deathss in Oregon are now starting to normalize with other States that do not require helmets.

There is also the fact that life in the west is too sacred. If someone wants to risk their lives good on them - so long as they don't risk anyone elses. We're legislating common sense and intelligence out of the people & into the hands of legislators who usually don't have any experience of what they are legislating.

I am an old misery guts when it comes to fireworks. I hate them, despise them and wish they where not sold.

Unfortunately they are, and other people should have the right to use them if they want. Rather than worrying about a dog, I worry about my 15 month old boy who wakes up crying when they go off..

I do think apart from the 5th of Novemeber they should only be used by licensed persons, and the penalties should be servere for breaking the law. Also, any shop selling them before the 4th of Novemeber should have the fireworks confiscated. That would stop other retailers selling them illegally.

Let me see if I was involved with a political party would I do the following.

Fireworks can only be used under license in an organised display. Sold by the council. Raises revenue for the council. Stops the infliction on the whole community of these nauseating excuses for entertainment. Stops the illegal importation of unsafe fireworks.

Instant vote winner.

And kills the firework industry?

Practically dead anyway with imports.

Gone up in flames.

It would bring it back to life as it would freeze out the chinese stuff

The firework industry only looks like it's dead - if those who left it were to return to it, it may well suddenly spring into life.

But so many of them got burned the first time around