blonde poker forum

10 handed live mtt

blinds 200-400

i limp utg

utg +2 raises to 1000

action folded back to me          i reraise to 1600     verbally declaring amount first and putting 2 x 1k chips over  the line

2 players not in pot think i have underaised       when the dealer finally understands thaT MY BET IS CORRECT, gives me my correct change of 400    and then


DEALS THE FLOP, b4 collecting the reraise from the original raiser.


what action should the td  now take

A  regarding the uncalled reraise of 600

B  the dealt flop,    does the flop NEVER get burned,   or should it be reshuffled into deck and redealt if the op  calls the reraise??

opinions please.

lump= limp !?

This is what should happen. If a dealer prematurely deals the flop with pre-flop action pending the flop is not allowed to stand. The flop is taken out of play and Utg+2 is given all options (fold, call the 600, or re-raise). When all pre-flop actions are complete the dealer reshuffles and deals a new flop, game on.

fairly obv, but ty for ur valued assisstance.

i agree

the inital raiser gets the chance to call

then flop is discarded completely

the turn and river get dealt out as they would normally come out, then cards reshuffled and dealt as would nromally

Face down and not reshuffle burn cards? That would maintain the old turn and river

are you saying complete the full board   then reshuffle and re-deal the whole board  M ?

or deal out  turn and river as normal, THEN  reshuffle and deal out flop??

if the latter. what on earth happens to betting??

Declare both hands dead and tell them there min raising faggots. Divide money to the rest of the table  ;tracet; 

There was a hand at the Dublin EPT which was missing a burn card. After it was decided that no one could be 100% sure which card should be the burn card, the cards were reshuffled and a new Flop dealt. Hole card bias aside, the players involved didn't seem to have a problem with this. I see no reason why this can't be applied to your situation with the initial raiser being given a chance to act.

However, the cardroom may have strict rules in place that counteract this view.

From Robert's Rules of Poker version 10...

7. If the flop needs to be redealt because the cards were prematurely flopped before the betting was complete, or the flop contained too many cards, the boardcards are mixed with the remainder of the deck. The burncard remains on the table. After shuffling, the dealer cuts the deck and deals a new flop without burning a card. [See “Section 16 – Explanations,” discussion #4, for more information on this rule.]

Mels ruling is correct but she did not explain it properly.

The flop is destroyed and put to the side WITHOUT burn card.
Card burnt, TURN face down. card burnt, RIVER face down.

All options are now open to your opponent regarding the raise.
If a flop is required the remaining deck along with the ORIGINAL flop cards will be shuffled and the flop dealt. Betting will continue as normal.
The original flop cards must be given an 'opportunity' to come back into play.

Shah

Sounds OK for a cash game but not for a tourney..

The players in the hand gain more knowledge of what will or won't come on the turn and river. So there maybe less chance of one of the players busting out..The ruling could change the outcome of the tourney for the folded players. I feel the correct way would be to reshuffle and re-deal the whole board.

Even though the turn and river cards are dealt face down and are not intended to be revealed in the procedure Shah describes. Most reputable cardrooms do not preseve the original turn and river face down in the middle of the table. The reason being is that it is not 100% secure and negates the very purpose of why cards are burned. Re-deal the whole board and bitch slap the players for the all the min raise malarkey.

Shah has it spot on. How ya doing Fella long time no see?

I was under the impression that most reputable cardrooms across the world did it the way Shah describes, as much as the original board should be preserved.

But I do agree about bitch slapping min raisers :)

many thanks for all the  constructive replies.

the ruling was......

the  op was allowed to call     and the flop   STOOD      according to the td on the night     flops are never burned   !!!

so the op
was allowed to see a flop, pay his   raise   and call my all in on a  j j 10 flop

holding



q9.


fortunately my aces held and got a timely double thru.



i posted as i cannot believe the td took the correct  action,and when i queried it and asked if he might like to consider some common sense or even check the casinos own rules,   he v conclusively refused !!


on checking retrospectively with the cardroom mgr  the next day,

casino rules state   ops hand is dead  and i take the pot.

funny old game  is poker.............


ps min raising  is normally gayhe, i agree      but certain circumstances make it worthwhile ;ifm;

the ruling should be that the person facing the bet , is out of luck . you win , they dont have the chance to call and the hand is over