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Hi all,

My Military history is lacking, I need some input on this photograph, its from the 1880s. Any ideas of the Regiment? Are they Officers?

Many Thanks,

Tonji.


(http://photo-history-books.co.uk/th2.jpg)

Not sure if it is a British group. The swords and pips on shoulders indicate officers if they were British. However there is a mix of with/without swords and with/without pips which makes it difficult to pinpoint whether it is a gathering of mixed ranks.

Also there seems to be 2 different shades of bands on the hats which may indicate differing units.

The type of tunic would indicate Hussars/Cavalry IMO.

Not a type of headdress I can remember seeing in many military photos.

There also seems to be a lack of cap badge which would also say to me non British (poss not military in the Regimental sense.)

Geo.

The kepis don't look like anything worn by British troops - According to Wiki the French Cavalry wore a Kepi with a light blue band & a red crown.... that might fit the picture - especially with all the swords - only in the Cavalry would that many peoplle without more rank badges have had them I think.

Sorry - no direct answer - but I'll pose the question to the militaria bods in the office :D

they cant be french....

there hands are by their sides...

must have been a shortage of shaving implements

Good call Rod,


The gent in the front left is also wearing long leather boots which certainly indicate Cavalry and i'd lean towards agreeing with the French comment.

Guy in middle has some sort of embroidered insignia, normally indicating SNCO so again leaning toward a troop foto with a mixture of ranks.

There is also a small banner with the guy front left but too grainy when blown up to really see.

geo

"I picked this team because they have a wealth of experience" says Steve McLaren after his selection for the England game against Croatia draws heavy criticism.

"What they lack in pace they more than make up for in swords", he adds.

You obviously made that up.  Beckham and Lumpard aren't in the photo ::)

Agree with Geo that the tunics have a cavalry about them, due to the cut and the horizontal braiding. The epalet pips worrn by some indicate Commissioned Officers, the peak braiding also suggest this.

I'm not convinced that they are french as I think their kepis have a shorter peak and more don't point down, as in the picture.

Thanks guys,

So a group of Cavalry Soldiers & Officers. Possibly French.

Incidentally, could they be American?

They don't strike me as Ammerican.

side note: they have parade standard head wear and such but not a medal between them, seemed  strange.

The guy seated on the right looks the old mountain man that knocked me out of the WSOP Seniors event this year!!

The more I look at this the more baffled I become. I had mentioned the non appearance of cap badge, and looking through hoardes of Kepi's on Google they mostly have some sort of insignia/number of unit on them. What I find really curious though is the shiny peaks? What material would they have in those days that would make the peaks shine so much? Did they have plastics/vinyls way back then?

Possibility of leather, however not a good choice as a leather peak covering, I would imagine would stretch and shrink with varying climates.

I'm loving this BTW Tonji, never spent so long searching online in my life. I'll take more if you have them.

Geo.

they look like boars to me

or dutch

wait a minute did tikay not take this photo?

They don't look much like boars :D
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:L7zTkHntP3W7tM:http://www.mark-ju.net/wildlife/images/boars.jpg)

I've been thinking possibly Aussy?

Wrong uniform to be Australian ;)

ok i am still lead to believe that they were part of some force during the boer war

book cover (http://books.google.com/books?id=udNhFg-rKX8C&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=natal+native+contingent&source=web&ots=gp0-li2dlO&sig=IH4sqG_8iJce4ONEx8VAQiSirSs#PPP1,M1) the guy on the right looks like he is in a very similiar uniform lack of cap badge also fits in

havent had a chance to research but maybe the NNC which was mainly black soldiers with white NCOs and officers

I'm thinking Canadians

Bottom picture

Officer in patrol jacket, Regiment of Canadian Artillery, circa 1880-1885.
This officer wears the midnight blue 'patrol jacket' worn by the Regiment of Canadian Artillery as an undress uniform. The style of uniform is very similar to that worn by the unit's British counterpart, the Royal Regiment of Artillery, at this time. The artist, R.W. Rutherford, served with B Battery of the Canadian Artillery in the Northwest during 1885, and eventually rose to the rank of Major-General.

The cap is not the same (the canadian has a badge and the ones in the picture don't (which at first led me to believe they were French as it is rather similar to what they used to use)) but generally it seems to fit.

Thats a close match Boldie, although I think it will probably turn out to be English. In the original photo, the seated Officer (right) with the banner has a crown on his collar. Also under a magnifier lupe, the crest on the banner looks to be a "Lion & Unicorn" a bit like this

(http://jahtruth.net/smbr.gif)

Ironside: the date of the photo is certainly Boer War period.

Thanks Guys.  :)up

Royal Sussex also wore a similar jkt, so they must have been some sort of bog standard design in this circa..

Not a very clear piccy so here is a link

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.members.dca.net/fbl/barnesfam.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.members.dca.net/fbl/barnesfam.html&h=768&w=674&sz=85&hl=en&start=42&um=1&tbnid=mpf7WlVClPihdM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Droyal%2Bsussex%2Bregiment%2B%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7RNWN%26sa%3DN

yeah the canadians wore something very similar to the English..it's the cap that's bothering me most..I just can't find the right cap that goes with your picture.

A lot of British regiments wore similar jackets - but the cavalry pics that I've found have all had pillbox hats, not kepis:

(http://www.britishempire.co.uk/images3/11thhussars1900.jpg) - 11th Hussars 1900.

I'll try and check Boldie's Canadian idea - the mix of brit & french could be the clue? - Edit - all canadian uniforms on the site below had pillbox hats as well :(

BTW - handy site from a militaria bod in the work : http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/army.htm
 (http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/army.htm)

OH aren't you a clever fella...the kepis could indeed point to that...gives me something to do..maybe those canadians that think they are french had a regiment that wore kepis?

Ah that sounds like you may be on to something there.

BTW apologies in diverting you all away from your work. These things crop up in my line of work, & every now & again I'll throw one out, & see what everyone's opinion is. Thanks all, much appreciated.

Crop up in your line of work?..OK fine..but what is my excuse meant to be? I'm in Telecomms and now spend all day on Blonde (which I NEVER used to do before) thanks to you and looking up old military pics...come on...give me an excse so I can convince my boss not to sack me..(apparently "it's more fun" is not an excuse)

You're obviously networking, with the obvious possible future possibility of bringing in new clients.

That's my line anyway  :D

good stuff :)

Don't appologise - I really enjoy them and the geeks around me do as well. I got a bollocking yesterday from my boss for diverting everyone - ended up with his boss giving him a bollocking so it's OK ;D

Just to add another thought...
I would agree with the area being Southern Africa (Perhaps even Rhodesia) the uniform of the two standing at the back have "pips" or Bath stars , to give them there correct title, this could point to them being either officers in the army, the unform is similar to that of the Commissariat and Transport Department from theh 1870's to 1890's. However for a posed photo like this the Officers would have been sat down with the other ranks around them.

Another unconsidered option at this point which i would favour would be of Colonial Police. The riding boots have to largely count for nothing as most people travelled on horse. Also the old fellow in the boots has perhaps a message bag dangling with the coat of arms on it.

A way of narrowing down the area would be to show the original to a Botanist who would be able to identify the floar and fauna in the background and thus the area that the photo was taken...
Whats the history of the photo ? was it on its own or in a set ? is there any writing on it?...

I'll get my anorak...

The only further history I can add is that it came from a deceased estate in London, bought many years ago, nothing else in the collection gives any further clues. There is no writing on it. Only other clue in the picture, is what looks like a "boot scraper", on the right hand side, common in Britain, but not exclusive to.

Another thought occuring to me is that its a locally raised volunteer force or militia, this might explain the lack of badges & insignia, & the range in ages of the soldiers. 

I'm blessed to be able to slob around & work all day in my dressing gown, drinking pots of tea, ignoring the phone, playing Bruce Springsteen at full volume  :)up

be honest Ton..you're on the dole, aren't ya?

 rotflmfao rotflmfao life's just one long freeroll

dont be stupid he is tracing photos so he can link the data to that in the disk that happened to fall in his lap the other day
he will soon have some mothers maiden names

Hi Tonji,

The link below is to a miliary uniform site where you can post your photo - although it is primarily Australian it deals with other countries as well.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/id-wizard.htm

BTW see about a quarter of the way down this page for a remarkably similar uniform to the ones in your photo.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/colonial2.htm

Regards,
 ;flushy;

I too have spent most of my day on Digger..lol

Lol, I got all excited when I found it! - er... hang on - not excited by men in uniform you understand   ;oopsy;

You don't have to explain yourself here ..we are all open minded friends.. ;)

But I did wonder why I was struggling to turn some of the pages....guess you got there b4 me..

 rotflmfao

 ;goodvevil;    is this the 'swings both ways smiley?

 ;booder;