blonde poker forum

blonde Live Updates are key to blonde, & they'll always exist. But we are having an internal debate about what Events we should or should not cover.

Essentially, it comes down to this.

We believe "Domestic" Updates are the most popular, & traffic figures back this up. We are slightly less decided about EPT's, not because they are less good Events - they are not - but if they don't feature "faces" or players well known, the traffic tends to be less.

As an example, the current Live Update from the Prague EPT is excellent & the Updaters - Floppy & Chili - have done a brillint job, no question about it.

But here's the Final Table Line-Up......

1Juha Lauttmaas

Kristian Kjondal

Gino Alacqua

Markus Golser

Mikael Norinder

Nedzib Suman

Dagomir Pavlovic

Johannes Strassmann

Arnaud Mattern

Marcus Golser apart, I doubt many of us have heard of any of the others. Does that make the Live Update less appealing?

And would there be more traffic if the Update were from, say, Walsall, & the Finalists were, say, Lord Wernick, el blondie, Des bling bling Jonas, Matt "Cone-Head" Tyler, Thewy, Woodley, etc?

We are just thinking out loud here & your comments would be appreciated.

We are already committed to covering the EPT's in Copenhagen, The Bahamas, & Monte Carlo, come what may, but are still undecided about the others.

Cost is also a factor, &, obviously, Live Updates are expensive to run, so all we are doing is trying to assess how best to spend our cash on Updating.

For the avoidance of doubt, our Updaters - all of them - are terrific (in my opinion) & it's nothing to do with the quality of the Updates, it's more a case of where to best do them from.

Your input would be appreciated, thanks.

I prefer if just the Uk based ones were covered, not really bothered about the EPT, WSOP ones.

That's the feedback we have had from many peeps already.

May I ask what makes or attracts you to reading a (UK based) blonde Live Update?

To be honest, the last event at Walsall had El Blondie, Wernick, Jackson and co on the final table, but our hits for that event were some of the worst throughout the whole year. If, for example, you compare the Blackpool GUKPT update hits with the Prague ones, then there really isn't that much difference. Except for the one that Floppy deleted... LOL!

must agree with acidmouse, as fantastic as the updates are wherever they may be from i rarely look at the ept ones.

i think most people love the updates where they know most of the players playing and can associate with this.

GUKPT,s are a must of course and would love to see more uk based festivals covered (though luton last week was a washout rteally due to attendance) maybe the GBPT can be covered.

whatever direction is chosen to go with the updates im sure will be successful with such a quality team.

keep up the good work guys

I much prefer to read about players I know from the Uk, its makes it much more interesting and fun to read.

I know the history and background (poker related) of most of the players in the smaller Uk tournaments, the live updates tend to be more in depth and always full of funny stories and posts.

Most of these larger foreign events are covered by numerous websites anyway, obviously they don't update as good as blonde but it just seems everyones doing it these days. As you have already stated who cares about a final table at an EPT if you don't know any of the players?

I don't know the costs, but in my opinion you should double the Uk coverage and stop all the rest :)

snoopys just worried he gonna miss out on all the beautiful european cities!

never mind snoops theres still luton lmao  rotflmfao

Lol, no chance, I was assigned to the Luton Christmas Cracker and Walsall Grand Prix!

I think you need to include the big Irish comps as well as the British ones.

I also prefer the National events too the international, in the EPT's unless a known player goes deep it becomes pretty Scandi-lous (poor pun)

9 times out of 10 in a UK event there is someone you know, or recognise and its good to get updated on them.

We'll be covering the blonde Ireland events next year

Beyond that is tricky due to our exclusive deal with Big SLick

I'm a poker junkie so follow almost all of the blonde updates. I think covering both UK and European events have their merits. For instance Kristian Kjondal is at the final table in Prague and most Blondes know him because Blonde covered EPT Monte Carlo last year.

But I think the UK ones, as most are saying, are more appealing because of the higher % of players who are known to those following the updates. After all the beauty of the updates is that they are interactive and as such the more people asking for chip counts or having someone to follow the better.

As such I think the UK festivals and those events with a high concentration of top pros (e.g Monte Carlo EPT) are probably the more 'interesting' ones to follow

It would be a shame for blonde to stop covering events such as the Irish Open, EPT London though.

Lower cost events such as EPT London are NOT the issue, its the far flung places where travel costs mount up for only limited traffic that are the issue

EPT London is a bit like the GUKPTs in the sense that a lf of the known UK players will play it

EPTs are great if someone from the UK (or a well-known European goes deep).  Otherwise the UK events are the most interesting.  Obviously, it's impossible to know who is going to be at the final table at an EPT.

Other than that there was an EPT and the WSOPE which were interesting, as a lot of the focus was on the big players and some Scandie called Annette or something. 

Is there any discernable difference between any of the type of updates (GUKPT, EPT etc) and sign ups to blonde and obviously the Card room as this is generating income for these expenses?

No, the link between live update traffic and card-room has always been minimal/disappointing..no matter how much or how little we spam an update thread

Hi Tikay

Cost aside (if that's possible) I think it's also a question of how you would like Blonde to be perceived by the visiting public. If you stick to just UK events then you are, in my opinion, becoming a bit too insular. However, including EPTs, widely considered to be the best events in Europe, stamps your authority as a respected conduit of poker information across the continent.

Plus, of course, you will continue having the undoubted search engine benefits of multiple posts with multiple names from multiple locations!

I hate to say this, but I would ignore WSOP totally. Access problems, plus lack of known names relative to field size makes it a no-no (sorry updaters!).

I would finally like to say that, while I worked at EPTs and WSOP for PokerStars I found the Blonde updating team to be outstanding at all times.



 

Personally like a lot of people on Blonde we want to read about UK faces and the majority of recent EPT events appear to be Scandi dominated events. Having said that we are now beginning to get known Scandi names multi final tabling and the advent of the EPT webcam, not available in Prague, has I think also helped the updates in a starange way. Obviously purse strings will be tight for 2008 if a sponsor isnt found for the updates and I think the majority of Blonde readers would prefer to read about the UK names as we can not only put a face to the name but also know a lot of the players too. As much as we would all love to have updates on all events around the world including the WSOP we must all understand that Blonde provide a free service and as grandad Tikay has said in the past theres no way that Blonde will ever charge for updates. There is however a way we could all help to pay for the updates we read, and I'm as bad as most people that I havent got around to open an account yet, and that is to download the Blonde software and play just a few hours a week or a few MTT online and help generate some rake. So my no1 priority is to download Blonde and deposit some money, play a few hours a week and help to wards the running costs of providing us with the excellent updates from where ever Tikay and co decide to send the beagle and his fellow updaters.

The direct link may be disappointing, but an update may get someone to join Blonde to read the updates, who then reads/posts in other threads, and then feels part of Blonde and then joins the cardroom and plays. Impossible to measure, but shouldn't be discounted.

This EPT update had quite a few new people posting in it looking out for their friends. Admittedly a few were Yank 2+2ers (who can't play on Blonde) but there were some Europeans as well.

Exclusive access to others means blonde will not be at the WSOP, formally updating, in 2008

But a Prague Update costs a LOT more!

As to Walsall, well, as you now, the traditional Fessies - eveywhere - have suffered in 2007 from the advance of "Series/Tour Poker", but I expect that to change in '08, when I expect that the GUKPT Fessies will be exactly that - proper Fessies.

Hopefully, Blue Square & Grosvenor will continue to allow the media such as blonde full access, & if they do, we'll be at all of them if I get my way, the GBPT's too.

Thanks Llevan. The reality is, if only, say, 20% of the Traffic that reads the blonde Live Updates were to play on the blonde Cardroom, then we would not be having this debate. Live Updates are far & away our biggest single cost, & that's where most of our Cardroom Income goes.  More income would equate to more Updates. It's that simple. We are, I should add, in talks with a few potential Live-Update sponsors, so our options remain open.

Yep, absolutely true, costs are massive in comparison. I was just contesting your "We believe "Domestic" Updates are the most popular, & traffic figures back this up" line.

They are more popular with me because they are more cost-effective!

£ for £ spent, they ARE more popular.

Wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now.  Good arguments from both sides.  I love cheering on Blondes during updates of UK events, so delighted those are here to stay.   To be honest, I have to force myself to read updates from international events when the names aren't familiar.  Like to go through the hands played, but the HA section does the same thing, so no point in cheering you on to spend loads of money for something we already have in some form.  That said (my gut is screaming) in the grand scheme of things, it might be a backward step to stop coverage of larger international events.

Anyone have a coin handy?

Its a tough one Tony. The live updates are my favourite part of blonde as i know so many players. Blonde updates are also the best.

I think a full domestic circuit of the GUKPT's GBPT's and selected european events, ie Amsterdam, Ept final, London, Copenhagen, Barcelona, Maybe the European WPT for a bit of variety, Definately the WSOPE, and hopefully the few festivals from DTD...

Thinking about it WOW!!! how many events, tours and festivals are there now!!!  I really would look at the domestic mains and pick 6-10 Major europeans i think- oh and find a sponsor who will stick in £50k to cover the ex's..

Thank you for all Blonde do, as i've said before- i certainly get far more than i give, although i do supprt Blonde now and play on the card room.

Merry Xmas to you and all your Staff/team/helpers/moderators/clingeroner's and Tighty (:D)

 ;applause; :respect: :cheers: ;charmaine; ;letsparty;

Your List & our Proposed List roughly match, Matt, except for the WPT, where we are, in effect, barred.

As to dtd Fessies, we have an agreement with them for 2007, which was not activated due to the delay in opening, & I'm meeting them on Sunday to discuss it further. My wish would be that blonde, because of it's close & historical ties with DTD, will cover any & all DTD Fessies. I imagine a DTD Live Update would be seriously well-received by the blonde community, as the overlap is huge.

Thanks for using the blonde Cardroom Matt, it's much apprciated.

I opened the Prague final table thread today had a look at the final table and then closed it again. None of the names interested me and I only recognised Markus Golser at first glance. If a blondeite or well know Uk player/ Top name goes deep I am lot more likely to read it.

So personally i would concentrate on the fields which have more "names" familiar to the readers on blonde. Of course its "catch 22", I mean EPT Baden will probably be way down the list if costs have to be cut but im sure that thread go loads of hits this year, due to Julian winning it.

I did EXACTLY the same. Which is kinda unfair on the Updaters, but nonetheless, a fact. But as you say, Baden woulda been the same, until that Luckbox Thewy got busy.

Not easy.

It's not only blonde who would benefit from updates from dtd events.  Dtd would benefit too, as they would gain greater exposure and attract additional custom to the club.

It's one of those 'no-brainers'.

Let us hope so, but we shall see. Rob, & DTD, have been more than generous towards blonde, they owe us nothing, whatever happens, but we will try & get it together.

I want to be one of the first to know who I have a chance of nipping.... ::)

Seriously now, I want to know how my friends, fellow blondes and acquaintances are getting on, not some mateyboy.

This argument of there being no famous names on the final table in Prague doesn't rub with me and totally assumes that there has to be familiar faces present at the end for us to receive big hits. This is not true as although they may not be familiar to us, they may well be to our European viewers. The Scandinavian EPT this year, for example, was hugely popular (check out the hits), much more so, than say a Blackpool GUKPT or the recent Walsall Midland Masters, and, apart from perhaps ElkY, it was a more unfamiliar final table than the one currently undergoing in Prague.

Imo, it's impossible to truly guage an accurate idea of the situation by only asking those who post on our general discussion board as there are plenty of blonde viewers (many ept fans) who don't. The sample size is naturally going to be biased.

However, the costs remain big for the EPT, and the hits aren't large enough to warrant 11 flights, hotel, etc a year.

Agreed. But do these Scandies & European viewers ever tune in again, or become part of the blonde "community"? I'm assuming - correct me if I'm wrong - that they tune in for the (free) Updates now & then, & that's all. Which is not exactly why we do them!

Can you sort out the next Blonde Bash at DTD - anytime after March suits for me as Celtic will have been pumped out the CL by then :)

Would it make sense to perhaps restrict what the newbies can see on the live update before making so many posts?  Then that way I guess they are sort of forced into becoming a part of blonde, and to be honest when you go blonde you just can't go back!  Its like an addiction.  its sad but most of my time spent on the net is on blonde :(  If not on here then certainly in the card room where I have done my bollocks in the last few days!  Boom and bust poker woooooooooo!!!!

Have you asked Hinge and Bracket there opinion on this yet?

I think you already know the answer to your own question here Tikay. You know what Blonde is!!! The show will go on. You know what Blonde can cope with. If doing the EPT's isnt gettign a high enough traffic per £ spent then it may be hard to do but you may need to bring the axe down.  As b4matt says there are plenty of other festivals these days the calendar has changed more this past year than prob any other year previous. Blonde can still do the Vic EPT and the Grand Final but personally id leave the rest of them alone.

I know this might be a little unpopular but I think the live updates are not as good as they were. The problem with them is that in a lot of places they arent really tourney updates at all, they are updates of selected mates and Blondes. I have a feeling that the updaters have got to know  % of the UK players that play most of the comps and these players seem to account for almost all the updates.There is also a big lack of current chip counts for most of the night. Without these the updates are more of a compillation of hands and quotes from the aformentioned group of players than tourney updates.

I know that getting chip counts can be very tricky in a lot of places but without constant and current chip counts it lacks a little. The best one ever was the comp that ended with a heads up between big Barry and DC in Manchester I think it was, it had player comment, hand description,chip counts galore and updater comment in bundles instead of page after page of photos and general comment.

Sorry but thats just my view.

...and two players that everyone knew.  Would it have been as good if it had been Morgen Heinrikersson against Stronson Stronsonson heads up?

Its a good point but a good tourney update early in the comp would have chip counts for a wide range of players, then when the final came around we would be far more familiar with the players and their ups and downs, not just the players that we know.

The problem with them is that in a lot of places they arent really tourney updates at all, they are updates of selected mates and Blondes. I have a feeling that the updaters have got to know  % of the UK players that play most of the comps and these players seem to account for almost all the updates


Exactly as it should be IMHO Phil.

I WANT updates that focus more on fellow blondes, mates, and regular circuit players. and I want loads of photographs.

Fair enough Tom. The updates from the current comp highlight the problem for me, in the day one threads there is barely a mention of chip counts but plenty of pics and chat, now that the final table has a reletive amount of unknown players it has a feeling of 'disappointment' for want of a better word. If the early updates did have plenty of chip counts we would have already got a kind of history with these players. After all a tourney update should be entertaining and fun but it should also give an update of the tourney?

Chips counts ≠ Tourney updates.

As a reader I want something entertaining which still keeps me informed. If Snoopy, Floppy or whoever have a choice between spending ten minutes writing an entertaining, humourous description of a hand they saw, or spending ten minutes counting the chip stacks of random mateyboys I'd want them doing the interesting writing.

If I just wanted 'Player X has 20,000, Player Y has 15,000 etc' all day there are other sites I could go to.

i'm not sure what the logistics are at these big events but it seems like a crazy number of people to go through to get the chip counts. 

Whats the point in updating counts for mateyboy that nobody has an interest in?

I think the benefit of the interatcive thread is that if there is a player you want to know about you can ask and the guys do their best to get the count for that particular player, also looking at day 1 it seemed like it took an age for the event organisers to get a full player list out to the updaters, this only stands to make their job harder.

I check Pokernews for the 'majors' just to check for how Doyle and Negreanu are doing.

I come to Blonde because its great for UK centric blogging, so I can see how my mates are getting on.

So for me, the whole appeal of Blonde is the community focus, so keep it UK.

I'm loving this thread, keep it coming. And Phil, you don't need to say "sorry", it's a good, constructive view, & to see you & Tom debate it from opposite views, but like grown ups, is great stuff.

I set out to bounce some ideas off you guys, & I'm well happy, because the debate is widening - like "friends/faces & blondes" v "Mateyboys, comment & pics" v chip counts. It's amazing what we can learn simply by asking!

Just make sure Floppy doesn't delete it....

what does this button with the letters delete do?

Dunno.

Nice one Snoops!!

:)up

Oh yeah, I love it when you get a lookalikee thread going. The McLovin thread cheered me up when I busted out in Waterford last month

This won't be popular with the updaters, and I apologise to them, but you could always cut your EPT costs in half by only sending one of them to each event instead of two?

Don't really know how the updates work, but I don't think having just one updater would work.  I think they work in tandem, with one typing their update whilst the other is gathering info.    Having one will slow the updates down.

Also, it leaves one person on their own for a weekend.  I guess it'll get a little dull with no one to work with, and this would affect the updates, and also the cost of hotels wouldn't be reduced as a room for one costs the same as a room for two.

It also means leaving a laptop, camera, etc., unguarded.  Now I know you press types are all honest  people - but anyone could swipe the equipment whilst their on the floor.

I believe this argument is flawed for two reasons:

(1) It is impossible to get everybody's chip count unless we invest more money in a larger team, which we obviously can't do.

(2) It is an interactive update, and at any time, someone can make a request for a player's chip count.

I'm not saying that the updates wouldn't be better, just that it's not feasible.

As tikay said, there is no need apologise for your views.

doesn't quite work like that. A lot of the bloggers work on their own.

Not really. I do the updates for Blue Square at the GUKPT's and there are 2 of us. Every site that has media access at the GUKPT also has at least a 2 man team...I believe Blonde had a 3 man team for the grand final.

However, I have also done some APAT updates, mainly on my own, but Des takes all the pics so I don't have to worry about that. It's still a heavy job for one person though, and I'd personally hate to go to somewhere like Prague EPT on my own, where I don't know any of the players.

Must have just been me who blogged on my own at EPTs, then

blogging and updating ... are they the same thing ?

I dunno...I would say no, personally, as in a blog you put YOUR thoughts, but in an update you tell people what is happening at the tournament.

well when I did it for Stars it was deffo tourney coverage.

Like I said, I don't know how they work.  Weren't you doing it for PokerStars?  Didn't they provide you with any support whilst you were there?

Look, we're going round in circles here. All I was trying to suggest is that you could halve costs by having one updater and still provide a service

I did the 2006 Amsterdam Master Classics on my own and it nearly killed me. It's simply too much work for one person.

There's a difference between a blog style update ('Here's what I've seen in the last 20 minutes') and a full Blonde-style interactive update, with updaters taking requests, responding to readers' posts and writing entertaining descriptions of what's going on, in addition to getting correct chiip counts and hand details (which some other sites struggle with - I'm reminded of the disasterous Cardplayer 2006 WSOP updates).

The first can be done by someone on their own - I don't think the second one can without sacrificing something (usually quality and frequency of posts).

Heres my view ...

The updates are expensive

the updates are popular

the card room and sponsorship pays for the updates

the updates aren't impacting card room revenue

reasons for this are probably the fact that we don't "Sell" blonde at live venues as well as we perhaps could, there is a marketing opportunity that we haven't harnessed and our brand awareness has not been visible enough at venues. with the Big Slick partnership in Ireland, we saw what brand awareness was, and how important it is ...

In short, we pay quite hefty amounts of money on travel and accommodation to provide FREE updates to not just blonde members, but anonymous guests etc. etc. .. there comes a point (like when sponsorship is being reviewed and maybe not renewed) where you have to look at outlay against return ... if the figures don't add up, and there is no one willing to sponsor the updates and make up the shortfall, then the purse strings have to be tightened and revenue targets have to be set and adhered to. IMO it really is that simple.

This probably isn't a popular view but I think you should cut back on the number of live updates period. You just don't get anything out of it for your business model. I know blonde isn't just about that but as you are completely and utterly free, people don't even need to sign up to see the updates.
For ones to cut back on then the WSOP, WPT and far flung EPT should all go, as stated there is limited interest in them at the best of times.

You really give the impression of being surprisingly intelligent at times....




For a spud  ::)

Yes but 90% of it goes on repairing all the accident damage on your company Bentley...

A very good thread, and most of the reasons for covering tournaments have already been covered. But i will still post my thoughts.

I would imagine the majority of people that join Blonde in the first place, do so because they wish to view an update, reason for this, probably because they have a "friend" playing and want to see how they are doing and pass on good wishes.

The reason Blonde is so good IMO is that it is about community and it is interactive, a big majority of us members know a lot of the players personally, having met, played against them at some stage and therefore wish to know of their progress, we are allowed/encouraged to ask for requests and the 'team" do their best to provide the answers, this is why sometimes it sounds like the "same old faces" all the time.

I follow ALL the updates and as good as the overseas events are, if they don't have "recognised" names in come the latter stages my interest wains slightly, I am sure others feel the same.

Another thing that needs to be considered is the way that the updating team is treated by the event itself, i.e access to the tournament playing area, the feedback here is that it is not always possible to provide the "service" we have come to expect.

I think when the "list of events" to be covered is drawn up, the home grown events are given priority and then dependent on finances left over you decide from past experiences which overseas ones you will attend, ( this is probably done anyway).

On a personal note if it meant the difference between getting the updates and not getting them then I would be more than happy to pay an annual fee to be a member of Blonde ( you don't get much in this life for FREE ).

For those members that feel the updates are not good enough or they are not getting the service they feel they should be, you have no obligation to view Blonde you can always go elsewhere (I don't know where you think you will get better ) it's your choice.

Anyway thats just my thoughts.

I love the Blonde updates and look forward to 2008 very much, so a BIG, BIG thank you to everybody that is involved into bringing them to us in the comfort of our own homes.

image removed

The suggestion of a single Updater is an interesting one, & is noted, & we tried it a long time ago - I began the blonde Updates by Updating Solo, & snoops did a few "solo" I believe. But it's just too demanding for one person, in my opinion. And not fair on the Updaters.

But thanks for the idea, & keep them coming.

I think this thread is giving us the answers we were looking for - most of you seem to prefer the domestic ones. The probable outcome - though I need to chat this through with Rich, the Updaters, & my Management colleagues - is a bit of mix 'n match - mainly domestic, including we hope, DTD, GUKPT & GBPT Events, the blonde-Ireland Events, & a selection of the "better" EPT's. 

How about selling advertising space during the live updates?  I am sure some of the big poker sites/casino groups would love to attract the audience that blonde can deliver too - poker enthusiasts, players etc as well as selling some advertising space there could be an affiliate link added to the advert giving blonde more money!!

I'm not a big fan of pop-ups etc but I am sure most blondes wouldn't mind a bit of external spam on the updates if was subtle and not to in your face??

Do blonde staff always wear blonde clothing when they are doing live updates?  Free advertising in the card rooms where they update from is precious isn't it? who s

also I assume players who satelite into events via blonde wear blonde clothing as well?

yes and yes

as to external spam on the updates, a reluctant yes if we had to but we've tried to not go that route

How about a small banner for a poker room/casino as a signature for the updaters during a live update?  its not to bad especially if the dimensions werent so in your face.  With a link so if anyone clicks on it then they are directed to that site?  Know doubt these ideas will have been brought up but its money for old rope.  Its not too intrusive and either.

Which updates are peoples favs   which ones create the most traffic?

the problem with us accepting any advertising from rival sites is that it could detract from our main revenue generator, our card-room.

Thats the way our business model is compared to say a poker news/forum site which might promote a load of rooms
and get affiliate income from all of them. We have a cardroom and thats where we need our members to be, playing as and when they wish to.

We have accepted third party poker room advertising and sponsorship business in the past (Virgin, Sky, dtd, Full Tilt etc etc)  probably still would do if the terms were attractive, but we'd like to stand on our own two feet and not cut off our nose to spite our face and theoretically encourage you guys to play elsewhere

my personal favourites are the GUKPTs and the EPTS with a strong British presence..London obv, Monte Carlo etc

Most traffic? Well thats a bit misleading on its own as each event needs costs apportioning to it to give a cost per unique hit if you get my drift

Needless to say I've got those figures and its influenced my decision to prioritise along the lines tikay is suggesting

With the changes in festivals next year due to the GUKPT im not sure how many of the regular domestic festivals are worth covering.

Id be interested in knowing Snoopys opinion on the recent main event at Luton.

Personally i wanna see the GUKPT events.  DTD festivals. Vic and Dublin EPTS. Irish Open. Broadway festival. WSOPE.

I think thats it, prob missed something out.  i happy without the ept/wpt/wsop

Having only read the OP i appologise if i am repeating stuff.

I'll start by saying i never went near the existing LU till i saw "final table" in the header i then read who was there and binned it.
Couple of points:
They really are not as entertaining as they were though this i believe is down to a lack of "fun" with them.
They started as huge fun mainly down to Tikays daft sense of humour (by miles the best updater there has been) and the interaction with the members.
Where did the norkage go? they are far too serious Snoppy apart (different gravy that chap).
I always follow Snoppys updates cuz for me they are the best in spirit, have a laugh and take the pee.
Best ever was monte carlo the first time because the personalities just sang that time, i have been back to that thread many times and i still laugh out loud at it!!!!!!!!
So for me it's a chemistry/personality thing with norkage please.

Right, see where your going with that now.  How do you increase the card room traffic?  Add some guarantees, more satelites?  I have been playing regularly on blonde for the past 2 weeks instead of other iPoker accounts but some of the offers of guaranteed prizes from other skins are hard to knock back.  i don't think the guarantee has to be massive but even unique blonde guarantees are sure to be popular with the regulars on the forum. 

We're running more and more sats to various events

Mid year we ran guarantees for a month or two in our regular blonde comps

We didn't hit the numbers required in any comp, and forked out. Doing the same regularly, currently, would reduce our live update schedule further

Its always been another thing on my mind, while I am at it, we promote and promote our leagues, blonde events etc etc (specifically Kev does) and no matter how hard they are pushed we get a max of 50 or so runners

Various reasons I know for this (not least of which for many playing a blonde comp will be a pretty tough $10 or whatever comp!) but the card-room strategy is beginning to have to reflect that we put enormous effort into forum promotion and this seems to hit a "ceiling of effectiveness" and maybe we need to be looking at different approaches.

This of course, is exactly what we are doing/have done

Talking about blonde comps and leagues etc. as someone on permanent shifts (no longer) i noticed they all seemed to fall on the same days or the same weeks (i.e. 1st and 3rd weeks per month).

I get it's in response to requests but how about proper polls for this sort of thing?

yes they did seem/do seem to fall into a pattern of Tuesdays and certain weeks etc

Nothing against a poll going forward but as I know you accept, its not easy to keep most of the customers happy and at a certain point in each planning process a decision always needs to be taken which will never suit all

I do use OTHER sites for updates that Blonde do not cover.

These reports are "just news", Blonde updates are like a family, because of them being interative, but for them to work as some people want, the members have to give something back and interact as well. I think the balance is very good, all things considered.

It really is a "No Win" situation, "you will never please all of the people all of the time"

I and I'm pretty sure Brad still haven't had out prizes for winning Leagues 1 and 2. Aaron told me an hour with DC was meant to be equivelent to $500 so if it's easier for you guys to sort out maybe you could just ship the money into my Blonde account?  ;hide;

Regarding raising funds to help cover the costs of the live updates, how about a Paypal donate button somewhere on the page?
I donate some money(not a lot) to a couple of other free sites that has this feature, im sure you would raise quite a bit of funds that way.

Apart from that, i tend to follow the UK updates mainly.

Main revenue generator = cardroom = regular quality live updates.

Therefore its vital all members support the cardroom.

 As Bandit does, when on ipoker I now play Blonde, unless its a GUKPT sat for example. ( although "shares for players" satellites for Festivals/GUKPT etc is a great idea to compensate no official satellites)

It would be interesting to know what kind of % increase in traffic/revenue would help to ease any financial pressures on updates?

I used to play blonde as my sole card room but I simply cannot play it with those casino games on, too much of a temptation to dick all my money off..

I will stick to stars until I can either turn them off perm.

very roughly, if we saw a 25% increase in net monthly cardroom revenue, we'd be totally self sufficient, all other things being equal

However, our revenues are mainly in $ and our costs in £ so with a weak $ things are very rarely equal!

great idea byron, it would save a lot of messing about on ours and daves behalf. :)up

I'll find a non-monetary solution guys, apologies for the confusion

Wow, this is all interesting stuff.  I have sort of semi-retired from the updating business, but I know it pretty well from the inside, as well as being aware of the problems faced by a site providing free stuff to anyone who wants to look at it.  I am not a businessman and would be frankly out of my depth trying to comment on ways of managing or raising funds, so I'll just comment on it from an updater's perspective. 

1)  You can't run an interactive service with one person.  Period.  We'll be just like everyone else, posting once an hour, if we cut the staff.

2)  Half of the people seem to want more general info, introductions of 'unknowns' and chip counts, while half seem to only enjoy hearing about people they already know.  Focus too much on the former, and you lose the interaction and some of the fun - focus too much on the latter and blonde gets smaller and cliquey-er.  I think a bit of both has to be the ideal.  Most times we get chatting to a chip leader/crazy player/someone in a funny hoody, they kind of get absorbed into our regular updates whenever they surface and they (the updates) should just get better and fuller over time because of this.  When I started reporting I knew the Hendon Mob and Tikay, and that was it.  Now I can report hands and stories on literally hundreds of players whom I recognise by sight.

3)  If it is not financially viable to cover the full EPT schedule, so be it.  I do think that getting out and about covering the best and biggest in the tourney world is a goal for a site that purports to be the best at live updates, and 'unknowns' or not on a final table, they're playing the big boys for big money and people interested in poker for its own sake rather than just following two or three mates surely see the value in our being there as it happens.  It's a global community, the poker world, and if it were financially viable, I think a local £500 Main Event isn't as purely newsworthy as an €8k megatourney with 500 (mainly) good players in it.  I may have the wrong end of the stick as to what the blonde updates are for, though, but that was always my goal - to report on Big Things Happening in the World of Poker as well as Big Things Happening in our Local Poker Environment.

4)  Scrap the WSOP and the WPT - fine by me.

5)  Don't restrict the updates for Guests - forcing people to become part of a community they don't live in isn't the answer for the card room.  It will just decrease numbers of viewers, which don't seem to affect the cardroom much either way, according to what has been said here.

6)  Er... that's it.

Obviously I don't have much idea about how any of this translates into cardroom revenue in practice, but it seems to me that excellent opportunities to lure people into the blonde cardroom are being missed. Very often when I'm updating, people will ask me who I'm working for and whether we have a cardroom, and then get very excited when I mutter something about 30% rakeback. As it is, I then further mutter something about looking at the website and point to the logo on my shirt, but I think if in these situations I could hand them some promotional materials - a sign-up CD or even some kind of flyer - then the updates might have more of a positive effect on sign-ups for the cardroom.

Many people on here are saying that they prefer the UK updates to the European ones, but in my experience we've almost always had better numbers and better interaction on the European threads than on the UK-based ones. Even when we've had an EPT and a GUKPT/Gala update running simultaneously, the European event always seems to win on numbers. Which seems to suggest to me that the EPTs are worth keeping, as far as money will allow, and if we can find some way to better self-promote at these events and on the update threads themselves, then they might end up paying for themselves. Even if they still have to be subsidised a little, I think that covering major European tournaments (so long as we get access! Goddamn them Holland Casino rules) is good for blonde's reputation - it's good to be visible, and it's good to be providing what is after all a more-or-less unique service with the interactive nature of the updates.

I agree with Jen and Snoopy that solo updating is a bad idea - the quality will drop, updaters may die, and I don't think it's worth covering large events at all if we can't do it properly. Please let's not do that. I suspect there'll be some changes to the UK tournament schedule next year - what with the GUKPT dominating and poor numbers for a lot of the festivals (and indeed poor viewer numbers for the updates - see Walsall and Luton just recently) so there will be fewer UK events for us to cover anyway. Obviously blonde should not bankrupt itself trying to cover every EPT if funds just don't allow it, but I think to drop them completely, particularly when there will most likely be fewer UK events to cover, would be a mistake.

Oh, and I don't think blonde should pay for Snoops and Floppy to go to the Bahamas any more.  >:(

Business cards is the easiest idea - easier to carry around, and more likely to be held on to by the recipient, who can pop it in their pocket/wallet/handbag/man-bag rather than put it down and forget about it.

Oh - it's not rakeback, it's a loyalty bonus (no, I don't know the difference either).

cds and cards have been available for a year to hand out at updates but, to be frank, the will to do so has been half hearted at best.

and we aren't dropping all epts.

Snoopy and Dana profess to have no knowledge of CDs, and I don't have any either.  Our collective thoughts:  Ship us a stack of them and we'll start handing them out (but we're not allowed to leave them in tempting little piles anywhere these days for obvious reasons, sadly, except our own tournaments - we should definitely do that in February).  I hand out cards to whomever shows the slightest bit of interest.

Oh, and I never got a hoody ;)

 ;ashamed; off for a stiff drink

The big problem there would be that the sponsors of the events would surely come down like a tonne of bricks if  you started freely handing out rakeback cards and cd's, can you imagine the Blue Square tour allowing you to do that for instance?

we've never done so at Grosvenors, nor would we try to take the piss ..but it doesn't stop every other card-room and poker site dishing out flyers/cards/cds at every event I attend no matter the sponsor

CDs? If they exist, I seem to have been on vaction when they were being handed out to updaters.

I am still awaiting blonde clothing too.  ;shame;

onto my second stiff drinkl

just to note, i used Blue Square purely as an example but your situation seems slightly different to the general poker reps trying to get business at the bigger events as I assume you need clearance to attend the events and provide updates you have a lot to lose by upsetting the sponsors.

This is true. Of the 4-5 sites I see updating the GUKPT, one is BSQ, and at least 2 other sites freely drop cards/flyers all over the place during the 4 days. Maybe there's an idea here...get exclusive permission to advertise/drop during GUKPT tourneys?

i had a few of kev's cards and got rid of the lot

not sure if we got any sign ups from them

i have been asked for a card many time and/or cd

i would love to give these out

even if its to some passing mad taxi driver

but have been told this aint the best way to advertise

Sounds like you've already had a few, or maybe Ironside is posting on your behalf.

business cards are a waste of time. Instead.......

advertising cards are c£130 for 500. Difficult to measure effectiveness but ours combine cardroom on one side and forum/update url on the other

The plan was that every time an updater snapped a player on an update they would give them a card. This has been an easier concept to follow in theory than in practice due to access problems/pressures of time etc etc



you'll be pleased to hear more are currently on order and a batch will be sent to you

I have blonde poker business/advertising cards and hand them out whenever possible. However, it should be noted that the blonde poker updaters work exceptionally hard, often skipping meals and breaks, and don't always have much time to spare for heavily promoting the sight in this manner. Also, I am, admittedly, a very poor salesman.

Yes this is what I was referring to re the "time" problems of asking the updaters to do this..the "journalism" and the update is the main priority and will remain so

Yes, I don't think anyone is suggesting a full-on spamming of the masses at events, just that it would be good if we could have a few on our respective persons to hand out when people enquire, or maybe leave in the bar where possible. CDs would be excellent, I think business-size cards with the cardroom details and Loyalty Bonus (sorry!) details on them would be particularly excellent owing to how nicely they fit in one's pockets (CDs are rather too big and square to carry around all the time, they really spoil the line of a hoodie), but I personally would be delighted to take a few of any promotional items to an update and hand them out to anyone who expresses an interest. No-one ever told us that such things were available...

That's because you're just a temp - you don't get your own and I didn't think of sharing since you're usually with one of us.  Temp. 

Don't you call me a temp. Quitter.

Touche.

sorry, this is completely and utterly wrong. You may not have known I accept, but I am 100% certain that the "old timers" had cards..I remember long email discussions about asking updaters to use them

Anyway, another batch is on order and thanks for the offer to hand them out!

Anyone who wants Cd's please email me and I will arrange for a small truck to deliver...... While the cards are OK, the beauty of the Cd's is that we can track and measure how effective we are.  We can measure specific events or affiliates etc. It also allows us to REWARD updater's etc who make this effort.
   This is where you can reply saying I want to be an affiliate etc. Or as Jen told me in Ireland "you are the sexiest man in his forties since I watched Brad Pitt in that action film"    dream on Denis
Our aim is to not have to allow advertising on the site. We want people to relax and not be bothered by pop up's etc. It is also true that we will not charge for access to updates or force people to sign up to view.  The real truth is that if we all made an effort to play a little on the cardroom it would help a lot.  We want to cover all the events. We want to have all sorts of events on the site...freerolls, guarantees, Sat's to live events, etc.  I for one feel great when I turn up at an event and see folks in a Blonde shirt who have qualified on Blonde. The answer is simple play more and we can give you more. This is not us trying to make money. Tikay Dave or I as the largest shareholders in Blonde have never taken a penny from Blonde for the work we do. 

 ;iagree; this is what i want to see. People who are "reachable" in the poker world. Dont really care about the Scandies or septics.

Nah then Phil! Gone all metric as tha?

rotflmfao

lol, I was gonna say a shit load of bricks.

So after 16 hours of sleep, I can finally reply to this thread, but it's more an amalgamation of jumbled thoughts than any really specific opinions. As Snoopy says, I think this debate is fundamentally skewed in that it features exclusively core members of the forum. How I see the updates is that we tend to get a more member-based viewership during UK threads whereas with overseas ones, we tend to get high amounts of guests and people who have just signed up for the forum specifically for the updates. During an update, it becomes, like Jen said, basically a balance of mixing of getting specific news on certain people for those with a vested interest in the tournament, and producing an overview of the tournament for everyone else.

With regards to solo updating to reduce costs, I don't think it would be efficient even if I believed one person could do the job on their own. Most hotels now tend to charge the same for a twin room as they do for single, and dropping one updater would halve the efficiency but I don't think halve the cost when travel and wages are taken into account.

I'm actually not sad about us removing the WSOP from our calendar, the truth is that when we went earlier this year, I was incredibly excited and Jen and Snoops warned me that it would be an absolute nightmare. Foolishly though, I believed somewhat naively, that everything would be well done and updating would be daunting, but not too difficult. How wrong I was. Having been sheltered by the mild-manneredness and organised friendly members of the press from the GUKPT's and EPT's, the WSOP was absolute shock to me, the so-called 'big names' whose celebrity aura allowed them to go anywhere made a mockery of our press pass access. Some of the pokernews people did kindly help us out now and then, but ESPN and Harrah's people would not give two seconds of their time for a chip count or hand recall, but I'm going off topic and you get my general point...

The WPT, I contacted the Cardplayer bigwigs about the possibility of doing an update at the Grand Final but we were given a polite but firm "no".

What hasn't been mentioned yet is that while Pokerstars have been adding a couple of new places to the EPT tour, they've actually reduced the number of events which will be filmed due to the expensive cost, so it's not just blonde feeling the pinch of updating costs. Perhaps our updates should be concentrated on the non-filmed ones, though I don't think that the EPT Live Feed has impacted our 'hits' as much as we'd thought. The threads simply become much more discussion-based or in the case of someone we know on the final table, (a la Thewy in Baden) the feed most likely helped increase the viewers of the update.

I believe that the viewership of the live update is entirely dependent on those people who are playing and that it's much more blonde community based when it's someone who we know, but even in the case where it's not, the viewers will often come from somewhere else. People can say that they're not going to read an update on a final because they don't know many or any of the players, and that's fine, but the truth is that most finals are going to be like that! In fact, if you look at the recent Midlands Medley that Rod and Dana covered, that was a small event densely packed with the cream of British poker with a final consisting very much of the who's who of the UK and the hits were much lower than some of our EPT's filled with final tables of people that most would claim not to know.

Can't disagree with any of that. Nice post.

floppy raises and makes many valid points, however what he does not mention is the fact that the updates cost lots and return little in the way of revenue ... THATS what we need to address, maximising a return to blonde in measurable terms from the expense of covering all these events.

The fact is, we do not get a return financially from live updates, and they are without any doubt whatsoever the biggest cost to blonde. and although they are very very popular, if they cost us a lot more to cover than they bring in, then common sense and pure business acumen means that we cannot continue to be travelling all around europe following poker as much as we have done without the backing of a sponsor.

we are an all round poker community and we have to concern ourselves with all aspects of that community .... as much as we would love to bring coverage from every major poker event in Europe, the fact is that without some sort of return on our costs OR a full sponsorship deal, we cannot justify covering everything.

Now of course, if a fair % of the people who come to blonde for the updates actually downloaded the cardroom and played a few hours a week, we wouldnt be in the position of having to worry about expenses such as this ... But unfortunately, blonde IS a business with overheads and costs .. and these need to be covered, as tikay has said many times, we have no overdraft and we owe no one a penny piece and thats the way we will continue ... the shareholders of blonde have each contributed to blonde in many ways and most of those financially ... not one of them has ever taken a single penny out of blonde .. NOT ONE !!  so it remains that we have to carry on trying and doing everything we can to become self sufficient ... but much of that falls on the shoulders of every member who uses blonde in any way shape or form to give a little something back ... we are blessed with a fantastic community here, we have meet ups and get togethers, friendships and even relationships have been forged through blonde. Many many members participate in blonde cardroom comps and contribute in many different ways ... those people know who they are and also know how grateful we are for their support, the fact remains however, for every one member that actively supports all blondes endeavours, there are many more that do not.

Good Grief! What a wicked thread this became. I asked a few questions, & boy oh boy, you gave some terrific answers.

One point I'd like to make is with regard to the practice of leaving flyers & CD's around, when the Venue is Hosted or Sponsored by another Cardroom. For instance, if Blue Square give us free access (& sarnies, a Press Room & good co-operation) to GUKPT's, then the last stroke we are gonna pull is to bombard the Venue with blonde Flyers. That's just bang out of order, & it's a case of "do as thy will be done". The blonde Waterford Fessie suffered from this malaise, when another CardRoom literally showered our Event with CD's & Flyers advertising their Site, & all of us in blonde were mortally miffed.

It's business, & we need to think that way, but there are depths to which we ain't gonna stoop.

As several have said, the real & best answer is for blonde to increase it's Cardroom Revenue. It's that simple, really.

In the meantime, life will go on, our Updates will continue, & we will simply cut our cloth according to our means.

I'd like to end by congratulating our Updaters - ALL of them - on doing a splendid job. The site would be much poorer without them. Richer, but poorer, if you get my drift.

What about taking Paypal donations?
I mentioned it earlier in the thread, it gives people a chance to give a bit back to Blonde without having to play on the cardroom(if they do not have time etc).
Its easy to set up and im sure it would generate quite a bit of revenue.

One thing that I've seen little of (in this country anyway) is non-poker companies sponsoring poker events. 

There's nothing stopping a clothing firm, drinks company, or someone similar from sponsoring the updates on the forum (and possibly beyond that).  That way there's no conflict of interest in terms of promoting a rival card room.

At the WSOP there were energy drinks and the like who have got involved in promoting their products, realising that poker players do actually might buy other stuff that isn't directly poker related.

It's a very nice thought, by you, & several others to me, via PM, thank you.

But ultimately it's a business, & my businesses (by which I mean, those I've been involved in running) have always stood on their own two feet, & so should blonde, it's just a principle thing. We just want the numbers to stack up, & I think we'd all be uncomfortable taking what amounts to charity.

I don't want this thread to make it appear that blondepoker Web Ltd is on it's uppers - it's definitely NOT! It's coming along nicely, it has no debts, no overdraft, no borrowings (unless you throw in payment for the time that, for example, Denis & I & others do, & we have no plans to draw Salaries or Dividends), so it's in decent shape financially. But we are ultra-prudent financially, & with Rich being of the same mind, we are thinking ahead on this thread, just making sure we spend our money where it's best spent.

There are very few businesses that can exist without an overdraft, but we are one, & we intend to stay that way. But it is a business, so although we are most touched by tne idea of a "paypal" donation button, I'm afraid it's just not appropriate. How would you feel, for example, if we suddenly sold the Site for a shed-load of money? I'm not suggesting we will, but it's possible - we are frequently asked to "name our price"! So far, we've resisted, but one never knows.

Anyway, thanks again.

I donate quite a bit on another site i use regularly and if they sold up tomorrow it wouldnt bother me at all, ive used ther esite for about 3 years or so, and i give them the donations because the service they offer is second to none and they do it for free (a bit like Blonde updates).

I don't think it ammounts to charity TK, its an option that a helluva lot of sites have these days where there is no charge for the service provided.  The link could be displayed discretley on the homepage or on the live update section, I'm sure people would only be too happy to give a couple of quid for each live update they read, its not begging. 

If your still against the idea then you must be more pro-active on the live updates and get people to play the cardroom. 

i always thought that the blonde "business model" was based on attracting new forum members thru the live updates who then provide revenue by either spending money with blonde affiliates and/or play on the blonde card room.

Based on this, only the number crunchers will be able to discern the true cost of doing the live updates over the long term benefit to blonde in terms of revenue.

I would suspect that sticking to doing live updates from the domestic competition will ultimately limit the growth potential of blonde. It may even have reached a critical mass already based on UK members. The only real areas of growth left are in a european/global market place. So ultimately it is a fairly hard headed business decision as to whether reaching these new members is worth it.

oh yeah, and I would like to vote for the live updates to happen at the Glasgow Stanley friday night tenner rebuy tourney....always high drama

Laz, despite being a Scot, & thus not having much business nous, hits the nail on the head, & sums it up perfectly.

Aye, that would be fun!

This is a cracking post and reflects a few of my concerns, except Lazaroonie said it much better than I ever could. For me, just saying that the EPT updates don't bring us enough card room revenue is too simple and slightly rash. These events bring in a sea of guests and attract many NEW viewers who may not have even heard of the blonderoom cardroom before. Surely these are the guys that we should be trying to lure in rather than the same old UK crowd that already know about our cardroom. In this sense, I believe the problem lies more in the way we market our cardroom, so perhaps it might be better to look at aspects such as the banners, our update thread spam, etc rather than merely saying 'right, let's cut back' without looking at it from all angles.

However, having said this, the cost of the European updates are so huge that I fully understand the reason for the cut-backs and would make exactly the same decision if it were down to me. I just hope that we don't ultimately brush them aside all together and perhaps one day come back to them when our marketing strategies have been tweaked, as I believe there are plenty of customers out there beyond what is perhaps a near exhausted UK market.

Great thread.

!!

First you say it was "a bit rash", then you say you'd make exactly the same decision!

We have not made a "cast in stone" decision, we are chewing it over, & we are asking for the views of the blondes.

Which seems to be, to my mind, the sensible thing to do.

Of course we want to cover all the EPT's! But we have bills to pay, wages to meet, & that comes first. Always. Borrowing to survive ain't gonna happen. And we want to spend our Live Update Budget on where the blondes most appreciate it. By doing so, it gives us the best opportunity to monetise them, by getting migration from the Updates across to our Cardroom.

Our primary responsibility is to get the optimal use of the Shareholders Funds. Which is why I started the thread, because we are not quite sure what is the right route forward. And our Members are the best folks to ask. We can't ask those who are not Members, now can we?!

Also, I should've mentioned this earlier as it's not the sort of thing that usually gets said on the updates, but we do generally get good feedback from some of the less well-known (At least to the UK community) for the work we do at most events, both the UK and abroad. One example is here: http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=26939.msg546470#msg546470 from one of the Barcelona EPT finalists, another actually happened on Friday after the event had finished, where one of the Dutch players thanked us, (I think it was Peter Meeres) for reporting things for his friends and that other sites would never report on someone like him. Individual cases like these probably do not lead to insta-signups for the cardroom, but the word of mouth that these players spread helps solidify blonde credentials for updates which can only be a good thing and help, I hope, the cardroom in the long-term. The main problem is that many of these players already have accounts on other iPoker skins, or in the case of the Americans, are unable to play.

One thing about getting traffic to the live updates...
I just went to google and typed in live poker updates, Blonde wasnt in the top page which suprised me.
First thing i would do is google optimise the site better, then hopefully more traffic=more revenue etc etc.
Just a thought.

I said that simply saying (not necessarily saying anyone is saying this!) that there's no potential market via EPT updates without considering that perhaps our approach to promoting our cardroom to this audience needs refining is a 'little rash', not the decision itself. Decision is perfectly understandable in my eyes.

Just giving an opinion, which is what I believe this thread is for, that the problem doesn't necessarily lie in the fact that we can't get our European friends on board, just that our strategies being presented to this audience via banners, thread spam, what we promote, etc may need to be fine tuned.

ps. Ian. I shall work on my norkage. I agree standards have slipped recently and I can only apologise.  ;D ;kev;