blonde poker forum

This was brought up in another thread and I've had a chat with Kev about it since.  He's willing to set it up and I've agreed to the admin of it (keeping track of scores, etc.) if we get the interest. 

Here's what I have in mind:

'In theory' and ideally, people with not more than 6 months experience would be encouraged to join.  They would have the opportunity to play in their own weekly tournament for a relatively low buy in.  Say $5 or $10 once a week on Blonde Poker.  'Experienced' tutors would join ye each week (at least 2, but if the interest is high...1 for every 10 beginners would be better). 

Why do I say 'in theory'?  Well, it's simple really.  For this to work, we'd have to keep an open mind and accept that anyone looking to play, is truly in need of help in improving their game - from a beginner level.  It is possible that a few might slip through the cracks and be more capable than they initially let on.  It's also possible that some will just learn faster than others and won't need a full 6 months playing in this weekly event.  To prevent 'hurt feelings' and to keep within the true spirit of the 'tuition' idea, players who are showing above average ability on a regular basis will be 'graduated' from the beginner's league at the discretion of the tutors.  Anyone who signs up to this as a 'beginner' agrees to this as a condition of their entry.



Rules:

No mucking of hands.  If you win the hand, you must show your cards...bluff or otherwise.  This helps everyone to learn about position, making moves and value of bets/pots, among other things. 

Beginners are encouraged to ask the tutors questions, however no discussion about hands while they are still in play.

If it is felt you have improved enough to warrant it, please take it as a compliment and be delighted in the fact that you will be 'graduated' from these events.  Everyone is welcome to play the regular weekly leagues anyway, so nobody is being left out, as such. 

Beginners are only eligible for 6 months from when they first join this league or when they are 'graduated' as stated above.    If they would like to continue on as a tutor, their request will be considered.

Tutors are exempt from league points.  They are there to help beginners improve their game, not to take down the monthly league.  That said, they are entitled to win their share of the cash if they place in the money.

This is for beginners, to introduce them to poker and give them a chance to learn in a 'non-threatening' environment.  With that in mind, the last thing I would say is...no verbal abuse at the tables.  Banter is fine.  'Go **** yer *****', is not.

 

 

Calling it a 'league' is probably not the best term, but is being used for lack of a better word.  This isn't a big money making venture, but a way for new players to learn the game.  Basically, if you win the month, well...you win bragging rights for 30 days.  That's it.  Anyone who is serious about grasping the game will be happy with that.  Anyone who isn't, is more than welcome to join the added value leagues instead.  That said, if there's enough interest to get it off the ground, I'd be willing to put a $5 bounty on one of the tutors each week.  Not much, I know, but done to add some extra banter to the night. 

Being realistic, I wouldn't expect 'pros' to help out with this, unless they genuinely want to join in now and then.   'Tutors' should be Blonde veterans who are just happy to help new members learn the game in an open but protected environment.  While they might not necessarily be 'pros', they have the capability to assist beginners with the basics, at the very least.  Tutors would be encouraged to give beginners a proper game, but keep in mind who you're dealing with when putting chips into the pot.  Try not to take em all in one hand if ya can.  Teach them a lesson, but don't take the lot. 

Well, that's it in a nutshell...or as much as I can think of right now.  Maybe not ideal, but one way of introducing new players to poker and Blonde.  I'm open to suggestions, so give a shout if you have something to add to this.   

If you're an interested beginner or would like to be a tutor, post here or send me a PM.  It won't happen if we don't have enough interest, so don't be shy...get posting!

Cheers! ;)

Good idea Laxie...hope it's not just Kin who signs up for tutelage though..be rather sad to have him as the only beginner in there ;)

they should have the option to play SNGs/cash games with a replay of the hole cards exposed once the tournament/session is finished,  then have a thread where people ask about certain hands played. No idea how possible this is on the ipoker software, stars do it, but i always thought that would be a good idea.

Count me in. I will help in any way possible.

Why players who've only been playing for 6 months?  I'm sure there are a lot like me who have been playing for longer who consider themselves no more than beginners.

thats the next step, its called the "lost cause" league

wow ive really set some minds workin tonight, i think its a great idea and i would like to put my name down for sure  :)up

Good idea, happy to help...though not sure from which side I will be playing!

Possible to use HH replayers in IPoker and post the tourney afterwards?

 rotflmfao  Don't worry pet.  I'm sure we can look after the likes of you once we get this off the ground.

You need to learn to outdraw better.

Channel Kingpoker.

why not have a blonde exclusive tourney or some STT's and cash games and make them available for replay afterwards with some Q+A threads to go with it? Just some 5$ games with a mix of all players but everyone agrees to hole cards being exposed afterwards/tourney re-run and everyone agrees to answer any questions people might have about why they made a certain move?

I cant really teach how to pull off a 250-1.

Kin could probably teach u how to deal with it tho ;)

You've either got it or you haven't eh KP  8)

GL with this :)

Great!  If you know of anyone else who might be interested, get them to sign up and check out this thread.  Cheers!


Would like to get the basics sorted first, but that's definitely a good idea as well and not to be ignored.  Might even be something for the more experienced to consider anyway... and all would be welcome. 

Im happy to volunteer to whatever capacity people see fit, without wishing to pre empt decisions. My speciality is sng's and I would rather be involved in that than cash where I am finding my feet as it were, where I think someone like Totalise would be ideal.

As for the structure of things that instead of exposing hands at the time of game if beginners submitted there hand histories to the tutor to analyse at a later date, that may prove more fruitful as you could see the hands folded as well as the winners. The tutor of course could show hands during the game and explain why they did what they did. Analysis could be discussed in public or in private depending on preference. I really think this would be great thing for the blonde community to do.

What a great idea!  I don't fit in on either side of this, but would definitely be interested in taking part as a 'learner' if the idea is ever extended to cover people who have been playing a bit longer.

lol that sound like me, can I sign up for the lost cause league? I'll sign up for the beginners one for mtts until the lost cause is sorted out

i would jump at the chance of some guidance as ive got a lot 2 learn but ive been playing longer than six months maybe after u get ure beginners tutalge sorted u could throw in a few intermediate ones

None of my friends or family play poker so having people 2 discuss poker with i think could only improve my game

Great idea - can't remember when I joined Blonde so might be just outside the 6 months now but I'd love to be included as a rather hopeless beginner.

Although it might depend what nights these are as I can't do Thursdays as a general rule.

I'd happily contribute time to this, I dont think it should be restricted to 6 months/non 6 months etc, just people that think they could do with improving their game.

What I would really like to see is that people that want to improve their poker, they analyse their own hand history, and make it public so that people can take a look and let them know where they are going wrong.  Maybe a child board in the PHA where people upload their own HH and analysis and people can comment/debate hands from there?

We are thinking about a PHA child board for this and/or mentoring

All suggestions welcome

my main suggestion (apart from what i said to you in PM) is that primarily people should be trying to help themselves, so it wont work if people just upload hands/histories and say "what do I do here"..... get them to try and analyse their hands/sessions and THEN the better players can come in and try and help them out, clearly the value in that is that it not only lets you see the way they play their hands, but it gives you an avenue into their thought process as well, which really is the key to improving peoples games.

Great idea. I'll help/assist in any way I can.

For those that are interested i posted up the entire HH of a 300fo i won last week on iPoker its in PT text format so just load it into PT and replay the whole thing, or you can read it.

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=29572.msg610182#msg610182 (http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=29572.msg610182#msg610182)

Definately taking a look - light reading before bed. Missed the original thread, cheers.

I'm in if I can be Paps' tutor  ;applause;

Careful Rich..you're very close to becoming stalker material ;)

I think it's a great idea.

But I think 12 months would be better than 6 months for 'beginners' to be able to score points, otherwise you could end up with too few entrants to make the result meaningful.

Why 12 months?

There's lots of approximation.

But - Blonde has about 3 sign ups a day - so about 1000 a year
If there is a 5% to 10% (rough approximation based on direct marketing approximately equating to posting about it on the forum) take up rate of the beginners league that gives about 50-100 runners throughout the year. As I would expect some people to not enter every month then I think this level of runners would make for a competitive but achievable league level.

Like I said it involved a lot of guesswork, but I think the biggest thing to hinder the development of this idea would be if there weren't enough people taking part and raising from 6 months to 12 months is probably the best way of avoiding this possibility.

Why place a ceiling on it at all?  I'm still a beginner and would benefit from it.

I think everyone would. I find that I learn more when I have to explain myself to someone else than when I listen to an expert tell me something.

What do you mean by that?

This is a well known phenomenon, I trained to be a Maths teacher and it was widely accepted amongst everybody on the course that while we could do some of the more complicated stuff easily enough - it was only when we got to teaching other people how to do it that we really understood it.

Nothing makes you understand a subject more than teaching it to somebody else, and explaining it is the next best option to teaching it.

Excellent idea, hope it takes off for all concerned...

indeed..I find I play better poker when I have to justify my every move.

Just to clarify does "They are French/German/Belgian/Dutch/Greek* they don't like it up them!!!!" qualify as good reason for jamming?

Is that the kind of thought process we are looking for here?  :dontask:

* delete as appropriate

yes..although the Greeks do like it up them..so be careful there..

Good ideas lads...keep em coming!  Might be no harm to open it to all who feel they need improvement while the idea is being tweaked.  Nothing written in stone says it has to be 6 months or less and no point sticking to that theory if it means very few enter the tourney on the night.  The basic principles would be the same (no mucking, discuss hands after the hand is complete, etc.) but it would be open to everyone who is genuinely interested in improving their game.  Some people are better suited to learning while playing rather than reading PHA.  With both in place, it would mean there's something for everyone.

 ;indestructable; = beginner thank you

Good idea and I'd also be interested in playing if there's no time-period-qualification-thing.

I think it would be important though that the games were as close as possible to the real thing. For me, this would mean that they shouldn't be restricted to beginners - I don't think you can analyse a hand properly, to a decent level, if everyone playing knows they're beginners and that their opponents are beginners as well...  Also I personally don't think you should use the 'no mucking' rule, as again it changes the game conditions. If you are forced to show a bluff you then have to change your strategy to account for the fact that you've just shown a bluff. (And analysis of plays further down the line may have to take account of this too, complicating everything further). In a 'real' game you wouldn't have shown it... so you're not really practicing for the real thing.

I think there should be mucking during the tourney..BUT afterwards everything should be replayed with all holecards exposed..like the stars mill final table. (Assuming this is possible of course)

Just my thoughts, but I'm beginning to wonder how this is going to turn into a beginners workshop now.   It seems to be developing into a proper league that everyone is wanting to play but people have to explain why they win hands, is there any difference from the blonde league that have run in the past?

Are you not in danger of getting away from the reasons that you wanted to do this for?

I've been playing since Feb, and still class myself as very much a beginner. 

As time has gone by I feel I have learnt loads from the blonde leagues, the HA threads and general play time BUT at the same time the more I have read up the more I seem to have 'lost' that 'gamblers' edge/instinct/cohonas even that I had right at the beginning.  My play has tightened up too much I think and a league like this where the cards are exposed after every hand (which is equivalent to the hole card cameras really) could be very beneficial to those, like me, who play too close to ABC poker. Yes we do OK, often going deep into tourny's, sometimes cashing big, BUT as someone mentioned on another thread that the mindset seems to be more emphasised on going deep rather than WINNING. Play to win don't play to go deep.

Just seeing some of the bluffs, or what others are calling/raising with will help a lot.  Also, being advised by the tutors that a pre-flop raise wasn't big enough, or that a post flop call could have been made as the pot odds where there for you to call it etc. Things like that which the beginners hear about but not nessessarily have digested yet.

If it's decided that I'm eligble to enter then put me down for it.  If not then hey I'm still going to watch the games and take some notes  ;)

Great idea Laxie. Hope this takes off  :)up

I think everybody goes through that evolution of "Absolute beginner playing any pretty hand" to "ABC poker as it's profitable and the "right" thing to do" to  "player with their own style" it's a pretty long transition period and one I sure as hell haven't completed yet but i think that if you realise the rewards are all in that latter category you will be OK...it's nothing to be too concerned about I bet ya that in a few months you will get that "gambler" edge back again

Hope so Boldie, my bankroll is dwindling  ;D     I've noticed its gradually starting to creep back into my game and along with it the 'enjoyment' of playing.  I think the reading up on everything I could lay my hands on took away some of the natural enjoyment of the game that I orginally had.  That's returned now along with the enthusiasm.

I think people themselves know if they are a beginner, but but whatever 'rules' are put in place for this, ultimately its going to be down to individuals to be honest with themselves...

EXACTLY! 


You explain my reasons for the 'no mucking' rule perfectly!  Most have said 'reading is fine, but putting it into practise is the best way of learning.'  This wouldn't be set up like the regular Blonde league, but more of a tutoring league.  Like I said before and have heard others mention, the HA section is great if you're one of those people who can visualise and soak it in from reading the posts.  Others need to see it in practise to fully grasp the different concepts.  We'd have luxury of both if this works out.  At the end of the day, we can put it to a vote if there seems to be split opinion.  Nothing is written in stone yet.

Can't win them all.

Sounds like you might make a good cash grinder. Play some low stakes cash and give the bankroll a boost.