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the old firm results this weekend with the old fim being so much better than the rest i take it celtic breezed past hibs while it was a walk in the park for rangers at the home of gods

or am i mistaken?

no you're about right

 Team         
1 Celtic       
2 Rangers

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3 Motherwell

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4 Dundee Utd
5 Hibernian
6 Aberdeen
7 Inverness CT
8 Falkirk
9 Hearts
10 Kilmarnock
11 St Mirren

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12 Gretna

Thats the way the SPL looks just now, now lets just take a sample of how things have gone in the Naughties - see where we are all at.

2000/01 - SPL Winners Celtic, Scottish Cup Winners Celtic, League Cup Winners Celtic
2001/02 - SPL Winners Celtic, Scottish Cup Winners Rangers, League Cup Winners Rangers
2002/03 - SPL Winners Rangers, Scottish Cup Winners Rangers, League Cup Winners Rangers
2003/04 - SPL Winners Celtic, Scottish Cup Winners Celtic, League Cup Winners Livingston
2004/05 - SPL Winners Rangers, Scottish Cup Winners Celtic, League Cup Winners Rangers
2005/06 - SPL Winners Celtic, Scottish Cup Winners Hearts, League Cup Winners Celtic
2006/07 - SPL Winners Celtic, Scottish Cup Winners Celtic, League Cup Winners Hibs

So out of the 21 possible trophies since 2000/01 Celtic have won 11, Rangers have won 7, Hearts, Hibs and Livingston have all won 1 a piece, but strangely none of them have reached the top of the SPL. 
 

Your definitely not mistaken, though both Celtic and Rangers struggled at the weekend.  Celtic have been struggling since we where knocked out the last 16 of the Champions League last year by AC Milan, but hey we're still top of the SPL - infact we will probably still win the league but why let that get in the way of a score draw eh.  I mean when was the last time Aberdeen actually won anything?  Yet all the sheep molesting folk up North got helluva wet in their panties after they managed to get to the last 32 of the UEFA cup.  Stunning achievement. 

I really shouldn't rise to the bait, but nothing irritates me more than fans of peripheral clubs getting smug when they manage an annual upset.



   

You're still shite though in the grand scheme of things ;)

and actually, i don't think the dominance of two clubs over so many years is something to celebrate

Neither for that matter do i think the dominance of 3-4 in the EPL is that exciting either

and I find it mildly insulting that the attitude of a fan of a bigger club is that clubs with fewer resources are "peripheral". Not to fans of those clubs they aren't

In many cases, such very occasional upsets are one of the few things that liven up the tedium of leagues where the disparity of resources are so high

I don't think its healthy either Mr End and I welcome the challenge from all comers.

However I don't regard either Aberdeen or Hibs for that matter as challengers, Aberdeen are pish full stop.  They raise their game against Rangers very much like the way Hearts do against Celtic.  Hibs have some quality young players - I just wish Celtic and Rangers would stop sigining them and give them an opportunity to grow their team. 

Ironside seems to be stuck in a time warp though referring to The Sheep Pen as the "home of Gods" LMAO - really?  Who was the last God to play up there for Aberdeen?

Steve Archibald.

Last celtic & rangers  god ...

Alfie Conn.

I saw both games, Celtic were terrible again, but really should still have won.
Abaaahdeen were horrible yesterday, Rangers were by far the better team even though they played with 10 men for over an hour & were actually down to 9 when Aberdeen equalised. If they didn't have such a donkey up front Rangers would have won comfortably.

The only thing going for Aberdeen was they didn't back down to Rangers physical approach , if Celtic don't meet this challenge head on next week then we won't win.

I said in another thread last week that whoever wins the league this season would do so with a record low points total, this weekend only reinforced that opinion.

Good honest post Stevie,

And the attack on the Aberdeen player by McCulloch after his copycat/revenge tackle on Hutton was discraceful!! What happened to the old days of "If you're gonna give it you better be prepared to take it in return"

Geo

lol at Celtic fan calling other clubs peripheral you support Celtic for gods sake! Hardly a top European team!

wow, this kind of post explains why both Rangers and Celtic fans are incapable of talking about football without resorting to digs and bile, Celtic are a peripheral football club in the football world, do you understand that Aberdeen celebrating a good result against Rangers or Hibs celebrating a good result against Celtic is just as important to them as you celebrating reaching the next Champions league round?

Lets be honest, any club that celebrates reaching round 2 of the Champions League isnt really a Champions league standard club are they, and thats not a dig at Scottish teams, its the same Europe wide.

Really?

'Yet all the sheep molesting folk up North got helluva wet in their panties after they managed to get to the last 32 of the UEFA cup.  Stunning achievement.'

and that line sums it up perfectly, you have a go at a team for celebrating reaching the last 32 of the Uefa cup yet that comp actually provides Celtic with their biggest success of the last 30 odd years. The ran 2nd in it.

Celtic fans going wild when you reached the Champions league 2nd round is the same as Aberdeen fans getting excited by reaching the last 32 of the Uefa cup.

Yeah Celtic are a peripheral club!  Some of you guys talk some ammount of bollocks about football.  Celtic is an institution not just a football club.  BarringMan United there is no team in the "Biggest League in the World" that has the support Celtic has.

yes really

to be a top european team you need to win atleast 2 european tropheys

only 1 scottish team has done that

ABERDEEN

a mental home is an institution.

of dear, mate the biggest amount of bollocks talked anywhere on the entire net is by Celtic or Rangers fans that have some deluded belief that they are big football clubs in the grand scheme, you have a league that has 2 competing teams and you seem to have the idea that finiahing 1st or 2nd in that league make you a big team. If fan size meant anything Leeds Utd and Sheff Weds would be 'great' teams too

Yes but never the big one eh?

Yes really, of the last 16 Celtic are probably the 16th best, maybe 15th/14th

I don't dispute that we are probably one of the weaker sides in the last 16 of the UCL, however that doesnt make us a peripheral club the stature of Celtic Football Club is massive their are possibly 4 teams in the World who have a bigger fan base and recognisable brand name that is akin to Celtic. 

Given though that the winner of the gets roughly 1/8 of the prize money the bottom clubs in the EPL get its a miracle that that we are where we are.  its not like we attract the best names to the SPL is it?  But the Celtic brand still grows when you look at the number of jerseys the clubs sells world wide, the number of supporters clubs and organisations we have throughout the world UK, Ireland, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Canada, America, Austrialia, Japan the club itself is massive.  Our exporsue at times isn't the best given that not all games from SPL are shown in the same number of countries as the SPL.

more to the point did anyone see the massive results for rangers and celtic this weekend getting points against aberdeen and hibs

I don't dispute that we are probably one of the weaker sides in the last 16 of the UCL, however that doesnt make us a peripheral club the stature of Celtic Football Club is massive their are possibly 4 teams in the World who have a bigger fan base and recognisable brand name that is akin to Celtic.  


You don't really believe that do you?

What you are saying is that in Italy, England, Spain, Germany and South America there are only 4 clubs that are bigger clubs than celtic?

You gotta love the Old Firm fans!

Maybe they are in the biggest 4 brands/fanbase in Scotland, not outside i am afraid.

Not to mention they are a very weak team in the football sense compared to the other european clubs

I can only think of 3

Real Madrid
Barcelona
Man U

...........

nothing in Italy, Germany, Brazil, Argentina or any other English team comes close

 rotflmfao


I do find the "peripheral team" comment entirely objectionable I must say, oh I did earlier!

Go on then Give me another English team?

Arsenal? Liverpool? They dont even come close. 

Yeah AC, Inter, Juve all supporter less.....

you are kidding me?

Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea all there in terms combinations of support, facilities and especially money

Celtic is in a peripheral non-competitive domestic league compared to them

That said, I hope as a British football fan that Celtic do well against Barca

where do you get this from? I've travelled to many, many countries around the world and am struggling to recall any instance of seeing a celtic shirt on anyone other than a Scot.

facilities and money they are streets ahead of the old firm but not in worldwide support

Corrupt as f**k as well.

Ohh and both AC and Juve have been to CP in the past few years and not won.   I guess thats because we're peripheral right?  And we'd have beaten Juve in Turin if it wasn't for that diving french surrender cheese eating monkey Trezeguet diving!

that said the top euro teams are closing in fast on the old firm due to worldwide tv and the fact the old firm rare get a game shown outside of the uk

well that debatable

Liverpool are massive in the far east,and now more so in the US

Arsenal and Chelsea more recently so

Newcastle I'll give you

Outside the East coast of the US, Ireland and Scotland I don't know where Scotland have "gobal" support from non-scots orirish/irish-americans

current strengh of squad wise the old firm isnt even in the top 30 in the world

but if a euro league was sorted and all teams left there domestic leagues celtic and rangers would be top 10 every season

Money yeah.

Support none of them come anywhere near Celtic or Rangers.

Facilities you been to Celtic Park or Ibrox?  Or any the teams training complexes?

I used to play table tennis for my county and we would train regularly at the top Premiership and SPL training grounds and let me tell you this, the quality of ping pong table at The Cliff exceeds any Scottish facility by miles

this is a joke right?

Of course...

step 1 talk rubbish about Celtic/Rangers...delete as appropriate
step 2 get all defensive and asume that the English are just having a go at Scottish footy for the sake of it
step 3 Instead of accepting that your view is daft and that what it boils down to is that you are incredibly biased turn the discussion to English footy instead and attack where applicable.

rinse and start again.....

Try Canada, New Zealand, Austrailia, Japan, Spain, Germany, to name but a few palces where Celtic have a massive support.

Give me any other British clubs that can regularly take 10,000 - 20,000 fans to away Games in Europe?  As well as pull in 50 - 60k in folk for pish poor league games.

Celtic and Rangers in the EPL with the finances that go along with it would be top 4 every year.

When was this?

ed i mean dan nope

if celtic and rangers were able to get the same money for media rights and prize money as the rest of the competing teams they would be able to compete in quailty of players and wages with the top teams due to there support

thus ensuring them a spot at the top table

currerently rangers and celtic hace 2nd rate players due to the fact they get a small fraction of the tv money the bigger nations get

I've been to Parkhead and Ibrox

Not a patch for the neutral on the Emirates, or St James Park, or Old Trafford. Superior ot Anfield and Stamford Bridge. Not as good as Man C's Eastlands, or Bolton's Reebok (for architectural flair). Huddersfield's is striking too 

but then I have no axe to grind, or bias in this

1974, Under sevens

I played against the top players in my age group

Bandit, you are on the wind up arent you?

Bandit, the majority of Celtic support overseas is ex-pat or Irish by background

it clearly doesn't have the indigenous support that a Liverpool has in the Far East, to pick but one example

Aha at last he speaks some sense. 

so 2 teams who you admit have 2nd rate players would finish in the top 10 of europe every year. nonsense, utter nonsense. they'd struggle to finish top 10 in EPL

 ;D ::) rotflmfao

i always speak sence you however rarely read what is written through your green tinted specs

with current squads they would be fighting relegation

but if they were all on an equal footing with tv income they wouldnt have current squads they would be able to offer bigger wages than all bar man u and chelsea in the epl and only a few otehr teams in europe could offer the same wages


the money teams get from TV income is huge factor in quailty of squads at present

 ;popcorn;

This is interesting. Very interesting.

oh and on top of the tv money is the increase in shirt trackside and other sponsorship deals

only part of the story

Scottish football does not have an Abramovich, Hicks or Glazer (or a City prepared to debt fund a Glazer) to provide limitless wealth over and above the TV money

none of the above are english and celtic and rangers would make ideal targets due to there support if they got onto a bigger stage such as the EPL or a UEFA league

now back to buisness anyone know the rangers score this weekend or even the celtic one due to christmas holidays i was unable to get a paper today

ok, so I know I'm mixing your argument with Bandit's

but why would one of the top 4 supported clubs worldwide need an increase in money from shirt sales. and surely with such a fanbase they should already be getting some of the best sponsorship deals in the game

sponsors pay to get there advertising into millions of homes watching on tv

the scottish games dont get the neutral fans that other leagues get infact very few games are even shown

the EPL has hour long highlights for every game at the weekend shown live or not


the SPL get an hour long show shown in scotland only and in most countries no show at all

the EPL gets shown in every country worldwide nearly

so as a sponsor where would i put most of my money

i know i would give derby county much more this year than i would celtic or rangers

is that cos they have kenny miller?

aye that too

Yes they should, but unfortunately its not as easy as that.  If Celtic and Rangers where to sell of individual rights to their games they'd make more in TV revenue than most other clubs in the world, however this is not possible due to a contractual agreements they have in place with the SPL.

In regards to shirt sponsorship, we have a deal with Carling that if in the Premiership would be worth 10 fold same as the deal we have with Nike.  

its ignorant to suggest that Celtic and Rangers would be lucky to finnish top 10 in the EPL thats just not true.  

All this has to be balanced up with your socio-political conscience as well, Celtic are in bed with two many corporate evils and personally I am not for us selling what soul we have left to the devil its bad enough we have Dr Death and Dermot "I'm so corrupt I should buy an Itallian club" Desmond, I am not sure that I would want some multi national capitalist coming into my club.  

However it seems we are going to get some investment from this fella that runs GAP.  He has just purchased 3.2% of ordinary Shares we will need to wait and see what happens.

all true. maybe the SPL need a new marketting man as whoever's doing the job now is clearly crap.

he has the TV rights  to a league that I've today learnt contains 2 teams who would finish top 10 every year in a euroleague, 1 of whom is among the top 4 best supported clubs in the world and he can't even sell them outside of Scotland. I'd suggest someone needs sacking

But Kenny is going back to Rangers.

so you would throw your money at a losing team who are gonna get, what 5 or 6 at live games this season.  rather than a team who DO have people watching worldwide everyweek, and in champions league.  Also, true alot of the celtic fans overseas are expats, but there are even more who are second or third generation scots/irish who have not set foot in scotland.  

anyone know what happened to the suggestion a few years back to merge the 2 league cups? I think the plan was to play them both down to last 4 and then combine them to give us the 1/4 final. I liked the plan, would've given us a good idea of the relative strengths of the 2 nations' teams.

The reason that the sponsorship is ten times less than the EPL deal would be is you play in a peripheral European league. If Celtic and Rangers broke away from the current TV deal to negotiate their own all that would happen is your home games would be on TV instead of most of the away games as you only have the rights to your home games, so how would they make more TV revenue than most other clubs?

As for where you would finish in the EPL, well mid table would be about the max, there are 4 nails to finish in the top 10 every season, so you would have to beat the Newcastle, Blackburns, Man City and Spursteams to make the top ten, and you are clear 2nd favs in that race without including the other teams.

you make a good point, tho I feel those facts may be arguable. ;)

Is there such a thing as a british football fan??  i like to watch english football   I dont mind seeing english teams doing well in europe(except from chelsea) but love seeing your national team losing, nothing better from hearing lawrenson and co going off on one(does that make me a bigot, i've been told it does, bollocks!)

yes there is, they are able to view things in a rational unbiased way

yeah, I support most Scottish teams in Europe as I support most English ones. I have exceptions from both countries but in general I suport a team for being British.

thats fair enough. i don't class myself as british so no doubt we see things in a different light, but i wouldn't have an objection to a team just because they were english, and vice versa.

now back on subject


what was the effing score at teh weekend

old firm both won, aberdeen relegated if they don't win next week. standard

i think, and i genuinely mean this, Celtic and Rangers are under-rated and would be very capable in the EPL. We have always gave a good acct of ourselves v English teams when playing in europe, and to a lesser extent 'friendlies' which i know are not the greatest yard stick but we don't play friendlies, and the teams we play against certinly dont take them lightly.

I think a lot of celtic & rangers problems are down to complacency against the 'peripheral' teams.

Anyway, we will prob never know.

ANd btw iron it was celtic 1 Hibs 1 & Aberdeen 1 10man rangers for 63 minutes 1 ;)

seriously tho iron, u talk a lot of sense. Well on this subject anyway.

Not been online a lot lately, what with Xmas & all the rest. Going to try and respond to a few posters.

Iron - picking the weekend that not one of the top 6 in the SPL managed a win isn't really much to boast about ;)

Bandit- There's no need to go overboard in claims about Celtic - the truth's good enough.

Bobby - don't see many colours showing - lots of ill-informed slagging though. Facts - the OF appear regularly in the top 20 earners in Europe - it doesn't take a maths genius to work out that the access to similar TV money to the English teams would make a big difference to them. Also Celtic are now one of Nike's sponsored teams with shirts on sale worldwide (alongside Barca, Man U & Asrenal - don't be so blinkered as to not realise why that is.

Tighty, Celtic have a convention every 2 years in Vegas - it was a couple of yeras back the biggest convention that year in Vegas - don't know if that record still stands. There are more Celtic supporters clubs in the US than any other british team. Also Celtic games are on live in Japan, Sweden, Poland at least every week. The support isn't just expat Scots/Irish.

Gatso - If you don't see Celtic tops you're not looking ;)

Finally - people complaining about the use of the phrase 'peripheral clubs' who then attempt to call the SPL a 'peripheral league' need an irony check.

Rod, Ill informed slagging!!??. The points made by an incredibly biased Celtic fan have been rightly ridiculed for what they are. If the guy had said, just as you did that Celtic were a top 20 European club then he would have got agreement but to openly say they are one of the biggest 4 clubs in the world is laughable, surely you can't agree with that statement?

The point about getting the same money as EPL clubs is irrelevent, you wont get the same amount because you DO play in a peripheral European league. Its FIFA co efficient rating is eleventh which is pretty high but that is just European leagues. The league is behind Turkey, the Netherlands and Russia, would you say they were peripheral footballing countries in the grand scheme of things? and Scotland is one spot in front of the Ukraine.

1 Spain 
2 England
3 Italy
4 France
5 Germany 
6 Romania 
7 Russia
8 Portugal
9 Netherlands
10 Turkey
11 Scotland 
12 Ukraine 
13 Czech Republic
14 Belgium 
15 Greece
16 Switzerland 
17 Bulgaria 
18 Norway
19 Denmark
20 Austria

By all means disagree, but ill informed, man alive Im just about the only one talking facts!!

Not going to put my personal opinion into this about how good the old firm are compared to English teams but i'd just like to point out that the arguement that if they had the money the English teams do then they would be top 4 every season is stupid.

Money guarentees you nothing, obviously you could attract a highly regarded manager... Le Guen for example... and then back him heavily in the transfer market.
But would that guarentee you top 4?

Also in the Premiership they wouldn't be able to sign every club in the league's one good player to make them better and there opponents worse.

LOL at Celtic being a bigger club than Liverpool, Arsenal.

round we go again...

***SIGH****

It is just such a ridiculous thought from the perspective of a person who lives outside of Scotland. Arsenal have over 30million fans, Liverpool have even more. You simply cannot put Celtic nor Rangers in the super club category.

Well, you can when you look at their results...Celtic and Rangers must be top class as they dominate the Scottish league...Liverpool and Arsenal haven't even won the premierleague (or come close to it) in the past 3 years or so...

I think that if you can't even win your own league you're obviously not a big club.

give me a break aberdeen are a huge club first team in BRITIAN to have an all seater stadium

ok we might never be able to fill it apart from when the old firm visit and big euro games

but we are a massive club

just ask our victums real madrid and hamburg

LOL

I used to play in a sunday league that was won every year by the same team but they never once claimed to be bigger than arsenal or liverpool

I genuinely have no axe to grind here, in fact I positively dislike agreeing with Nemesis but, he's totally right

Off for a lie down

I think if Celtic & Rangers were in the prem, theyd finish around 10th-12th.

eh? that doesnt make any sense at all.

Really?..I think it makes perfect sense. Rangers, Celtic, PSV, TNS and all those teams are obviously bigger than Arsenal and Liverpool as they actually accomplish something in their own leagues :)

lol, i have to admit you whooshed me there  :)

:)