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Title: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: gatso on December 30, 2007, 08:54:32 PM live tourney, 60 runners, 30 left, 9 paid, average stack 6000.
blinds 100/200 15 minute clock, you have 4600 and are in the SB, table has been pretty tight since the start. EP limps, passed to button who raises to 600. you call with 5s 6s, BB passes, limper calls. 2000 in pot flop 7h 8h 9h check, check. button pushes allin for 3100. you know the button usually plays aggressively but has been unusually quiet in this tourney limper to act behind you has approx 10k behind. do you call for 3/4 of your stack? please, no opinions on the play of the hand up to here as I'm the button in this hand, interested in the decision my opponent in SB had Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: NumptyITB on December 30, 2007, 08:59:53 PM I would think about it and reluctantly fold. If the person behind you has two hearts, or even one heart (but a very high one) he will probably put you all in anyway if you call. Or if you go all in, he will call with this too..
The person who pushed probably has a flush or a high flush draw, and if thats the case, why put your tournament on the line for that? You can still have a couple of rounds patiently before things get too bad. IMO... fold... But show your frustration at having to!! Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: Ironside on December 30, 2007, 10:04:24 PM i am playing agianst the button i read this for a push to get any draws out with an over pair maybe (maybe AA with Ah)
maybe a flopped set either way i think i am getting good odds and would push Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: boldie on December 30, 2007, 10:19:13 PM fairly easy call for me as he hardly ever has the straight of Flush made when he pushes...
Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: NumptyITB on December 30, 2007, 10:31:22 PM Yeah.. but he could be on a flush draw Ace or King high. Therefore would you be happy going against his draws?
Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: boldie on December 30, 2007, 10:32:43 PM Yeah.. but he could be on a flush draw Ace or King high. Therefore would you be happy going against his draws? yeah I'll take that :) Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: NumptyITB on December 30, 2007, 10:34:38 PM Yeah.. but he could be on a flush draw Ace or King high. Therefore would you be happy going against his draws? yeah I'll take that :) lol ok fair enough!! I wouldnt tbh! thats all down to how people play i suppose .. Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: Ironside on December 30, 2007, 11:57:02 PM if you have straight via his draw you are close to a 2-1 favourite and look at what odds teh pots offering you
in a cash game you would be made to refuse the offer in a tourny you have to look at how close to the money you are and basically this pot puts you in great shape folding leaves you 2/3 average and looking for a double up so you need to work out how often the buttom would make that move with a hand thats better than yours i say not often so get your chips in Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: gatso on December 31, 2007, 12:04:32 AM if you have straight via his draw you are close to a 2-1 favourite and look at what odds teh pots offering you in a cash game you would be made to refuse the offer in a tourny you have to look at how close to the money you are and basically this pot puts you in great shape folding leaves you 2/3 average and looking for a double up so you need to work out how often the buttom would make that move with a hand thats better than yours i say not often so get your chips in but button doesn't need to be ahead. holding the bare Th makes me favourite and 6h makes the call close. these are in addition to the possible flopped straights and flushes Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: Ironside on December 31, 2007, 12:11:18 AM there is 2000 in the pot if he holds the Th is is maringal favourite your getting offered 8/5 i still like the pot odds here
if i can put the guy on the made flush then i dont like it but getting offered such odds when i am at worse 50/50 i would be mad not to take it at current postion of the comp Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: gatso on December 31, 2007, 12:23:35 AM IMO... fold... But show your frustration at having to!! this is in fact exactly what happened after a very long dwell. I was surprised he passed given the strength of his hand and the tourney structure so I wanted to check others opinions Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: NumptyITB on December 31, 2007, 12:32:32 AM so what did you (button) have?
Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: gatso on December 31, 2007, 12:35:03 AM so what did you (button) have? forgot that bit 8c 7c Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: Bongo on December 31, 2007, 12:39:03 AM If you're going to call preflop with these stack sizes I really don't see how you can pass on the flop.
Isn't showing frustration just asking to be bullied in future? Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: NumptyITB on December 31, 2007, 12:51:05 AM no. IMO showing frustration shows that you can lay down a hand, but wont make a habbit of it..
Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: cooker3 on December 31, 2007, 01:29:22 AM If you're going to call preflop with these stack sizes I really don't see how you can pass on the flop. Nah, this is fairly bad thinking. You'll end up compounding a mistake then which calling pf is in sb with this hand and these stacks (btw I stack off here) Point I am making is just because you do x automatically means you have do y etc if y is incorrect Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: Bongo on December 31, 2007, 01:36:06 AM Maybe I phrased it badly then, I meant I didn't like the call preflop, but I think you have to stack off here and accept it if you're beat, but if you all had larger stacks then the decision would take more thought.
Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: cooker3 on December 31, 2007, 01:40:19 AM I am not sure I phrased it very well either!
I am just saying, if you make a mistake on a previous street, then saying you have to stack off because you found yourself here is bad thinking. (Again, I don't think this hand is 1 of those situations) I am making more general point Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: Bongo on December 31, 2007, 01:42:11 AM I understand your point, I wasn't saying we should call because of the mistake preflop, more that I think we have to call because of the stack sizes now.
Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: The_Diamond on December 31, 2007, 04:23:27 AM Preflop is horrible. It's not profitable to call off over 10% of your stack OOP with this hand. There's just no getting away from that.
Postflop if you're willing to go broke then you should definitely consider open shoving. This is so much better than check-calling because you immediately make it unprofitable for anyone to call with a flush or straight draw and every time you take it down you increase your stack by almost 50%. The villain plays the hand very well. Title: Re: flopped idiot end with FD on board Post by: Longy on December 31, 2007, 10:19:12 AM Preflop is horrible. It's not profitable to call off over 10% of your stack OOP with this hand. There's just no getting away from that. Postflop if you're willing to go broke then you should definitely consider open shoving. This is so much better than check-calling because you immediately make it unprofitable for anyone to call with a flush or straight draw and every time you take it down you increase your stack by almost 50%. I agree with all of this. |